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View Full Version : Does anyone know how much Laser Shield reduces laser ?



Serg
11-28-2006, 06:36 PM
Hi guys,

Just by using laser shield alone, does anyone know what the target range would be for a laser gun if you only point at license plate the whole time ?

richardboy316
11-28-2006, 06:46 PM
it just depends on all the different variables:
-what color is your car?
-what type of laser gun is it?
-what type of day is it?
-where is the officer standing in retrospect to you?

LittleOverPSL
11-28-2006, 09:51 PM
Don't know the answer, but it doesn't matter.

Bottom line is that it won't buy you enough time to matter. Speaking from personal experience here. PT distances on my black golf (with veiled lasershield and veiled headlights and veiled emblem - no other high reflective surfaces) was high - 1500'+ with Laser Atlanta and 1200'+ with LTI Ultralyte Compact.

*I* have concluded that Veil and LaserShield is a waste of money because LEOs here don't typically target far (traffic, stealth, etc). It's better to put that money towards an extra transponder head.

EDIT: it is best to try and find out what distances the LEOs are targeting vehicles with lidar (in one's driving routes), and use the data in the various tests to guess what the performance would be for your vehicle. I did so and was surprised with the results. Especially with the LTI.

Serg
11-28-2006, 10:12 PM
Don't know the answer, but it doesn't matter.

Bottom line is that it won't buy you enough time to matter. Speaking from personal experience here. PT distances on my black golf (with veiled lasershield and veiled headlights and veiled emblem - no other high reflective surfaces) was high - 1500'+ with Laser Atlanta and 1200'+ with LTI Ultralyte Compact.

I've concluded that Veil and LaserShield is a waste of money. It's better to put that money towards an extra transponder head.


Good point !!! But jammers are illegal in Minnesota :( And I just have no choice but to use passive jammers.

richardboy316
11-28-2006, 10:16 PM
well then get a 'parking assistant'

LittleOverPSL
11-28-2006, 10:19 PM
x2 that.

Veil Guy
11-28-2006, 10:31 PM
Serg,

We have found the lasershield to indeed cut range of laser detection.

In the many hundreds of tests we conducted with every gun currently being used, we have found that retroreflective plates can be ranged well beyond 1800 feet in most cases without any other reflective source on the vehicle.

In otherwords, the plate itself can be ranged at those distances.

By using a lasershield that range will drop to less than 700 (give or take) and drop further when a single coating of veil is applied to the inner side of the plate (the rough side facing outward).

Of course in the real-world plates are not the only reflective part of the car. So using a laser shield alone will have marginal impact unless those other elements are eliminated from the equation. That's where Veil comes in. It effectively eliminates reflection of laser from the other sources which allow the lasershield to do its job.

Even if you didn't use veil and you had a jammer, using a lasershield will make it easier for the jammer to be effective and using VEIL will make it easier still.

Its important to understand that many parts of a vehicle can contribute to
your visibility to laser. Side mirrors (that are reflective), chrome, roof if shaped just right, metallic reflective inspection stickers, steeply raked hoods/front-ends...anything that gives off a reflection can potentially contribute.

Eliminating as many as you can is the best way to combact laser. Contrary to some opinions, jammers are not fullproof...not by a long shot.

Your best bet is to use all of your countermeasures collectively to most effectively combat the threat.

The most used laser guns that you will likely encounter are the Pro III, Stalker LZ1, and the LTI ULyte. They constitute roughly 97% of all laser gun usage today. Both Veil and laser shield have repeatedly proven over the years to be effective against those guns at reducing range.

In addition, Veil is especially effective at rendering the LA (stealth mode) function a non-issue for drivers with or without jammers.

Below is an actual video made by one of the members of this forum, Staton demonstrating the capabilities of VEIL, the laser shield, and the V1 on an Audi S4, a black vette, and a Mitsu Evo:

http://www.laserveil.com/urlvids-staton-lz1?www.d-rail.com/test6140/veil-blinderfinal.wmv

Another forum member, Dilip drives a mazda 6 and he has had very good success at outfoxing speed traps using Veil, the lasershield, and his V1 only as jammers too are illegal we he drives and his car is yellow!

Bottom line: use it, if you can.

Veil Guy 8)

LittleOverPSL
11-29-2006, 01:25 AM
I believe most states have statutes that do not allow any sort of obstruction of license plates and/or headlights. Technically, I think LS and Veil *can* be interpreted as an obstruction. Look up the law in your state and the corresponding penalties.

I have LS and Veil, I am not removing them (not in near future) as they help reduce PT range along with the jammers. I haven't tested performance with/without Veil because it's not quick to do. Maybe I'll test without/with LS+Veil some day, the cold wet weather here isn't very conducive to it.

Audi Quattro
11-29-2006, 09:43 AM
When we did laser jammer testing and we did runs with and without jammer. PSL and JTW was the only 2 in Team JTG that the Laser Shield and there was was no difference when aimed at the lic.plate. Remember 1,800 ft. the laser beam is alot bigger and wider then your plate and reflect of the car anyways. Team JTG will conduct some futher tests on this subject.

Veil Guy
11-29-2006, 10:03 AM
LittleOverPSL,

That's true. But unlike a jammer which can be spotted unless retracted, most won't even notice it on the vehicle, assuming you get pulled-over for any reason.

Further since both products do not generate jamming codes (as most guns can indicate to the officer) you'll likely not generate any undue attention unless (in the unusual case) you get a JTG. That may arouse some attention.

We recommend that if you have a jammer to turn it off to allow the officer to at least get a reading so that you minimize those chances of being scrutinized.

At any rate, I would take an equipment violation (non-moving) over a speeding ticket any day of the week.

I believe our state (PA) has a restriction of using any sort of plate covers even if they are clear and colorless.

However, PepBoys and the like sell them and I see them all the time on the back of cars so, in general, it appears (that for now, at least) its a non-issue. Your state may be different.

Veil Guy 8)

Serg
11-29-2006, 12:19 PM
Believe me or not but I was lasered many times and after installing laser shield alerts are wayyyyyyy longer than they used to be, one time in wisconsin, i was driving at night around 1am and I was the only car on the highway, and he tried to clock me around 1500-2000ft away. and my x50 alerted for around 12 seconds, i didnt see him because it was at night but after around 15 seconds I finally saw him. I just dont know if they keep firing gun for a hell of it or they cant get a reading and keep shooting :)

LittleOverPSL
11-29-2006, 12:23 PM
Looks like it works for you then, so don't worry about it.

BTW, typically LEOs stop shooting after they acquire speed. Especially if the unit doesn't have a HUD. The LTI UL we tested with last weekend kept shooting until it got PT with just a single trigger, the LTI 20-20 requires a re-trigger when it gets an error/jam code, this probably varies with different brands and revs.

My experience has been closer shots, and passive technologies just aren't good enough for those ranges yet. Maybe for some guns or firmware revs, not a wide variety. Enough for me to consider a jammer that was not on my purchase list this year.

cyberblob
11-29-2006, 12:55 PM
the LTI 20-20 requires a re-trigger when it gets an error/jam code, this probably varies with different brands and revs.


Correct the LTI 20/20 needs that re-trigger after any error. But the LTI Marksman does not it is just like the LTI UL.

Gregor
11-29-2006, 01:04 PM
Believe me or not but I was lasered many times and after installing laser shield alerts are wayyyyyyy longer than they used to be

I've had the same experience with Viel and LS. But only when the LEO is at the longer distances. I'm convinced that there is a benifit. However I live in the same area as LOP and most of the LEOs target under 500 ft. Awaiting the anouncement for Roy and Blinder.

jimbonzzz
11-29-2006, 02:09 PM
Another forum member, Dilip drives a mazda 6 and he has had very good success at outfoxing speed traps using Veil, the lasershield, and his V1 only as jammers too are illegal we he drives and his car is yellow!

He used to...I'm pretty sure he sold it :cry:

LittleOverPSL
11-29-2006, 02:46 PM
There have been several good points made by Bob and others. The situtation is still the same - some passive countermeasures are good at long distances (I'd say above 2000', others can argue a lesser distance) but not at short distances - against some lidar guns. Active countermeasures like jammers make reduce the PT distance (from a few hundred feet to jtg).

And yes, JTG is good to have but should *not* be used. It's a sure way to make laser countermeasures illegal (if they aren't already).

Let me add this: *I* don't believe any laser countermeasure (passive or active) is mature enough yet to be very reliable. Sure there's been great progress. Just like an RD's performance isn't significantly dependent on the brand/model/firmware of a radar gun - whether in the market today or to be introduced in near future. And I am not talking about new RF bands being used, or changes in patterns like POP. The same can't really be said of laser countermeasures yet.

My passive countermeasure wishlist is to have a clear coating that absorbs NIR used by lidar, is easy to put on glass/metal/plastic, and compliant with local laws (at least in the US for me). AND very affordable.

My active countermeasure wishlist is to have a unit that interfaces with my RD, is very easy to install, requires minimal/no modifications to vehicle, works against all lidar guns, gives JTG (or <200') on all lidar guns, doesn't require constant updates, is updateable by firmware (unless new freqs are introduced), are really not lidar jammers. AND very affordable.

I look forward to the day when we get there. Having said that, we have to make do with what we've got.

PS - and no, I am NOT expecting foolproof (or even better is ticketproof) performance for speeders. I really want the LEOs to get the bad/unsafe drivers, period. I will call 911 if I see one, not had the reason to do so yet.

jimbonzzz
11-29-2006, 03:12 PM
And yes, JTG is good to have but should *not* be used. It's a sure way to make laser countermeasures illegal (if they aren't already).

X1000

LittleOverPSL
11-29-2006, 07:21 PM
Yeah, it's like saying to the LEO - 'mind your own BEEP business in his face'. It will get his attention and arouse suspicions. Else, it's a confused look and distracts from obtaining visual estimate (while LEOs trying to 'dope slap' the lidar gun to work).