View Full Version : Bad news in Gwinnett GA
Local GCPD officers going through LIDAR certification are being told to aim for the sideview mirrors. Fortunately, they can't take shots under 500' to court, so the beam should be wide enough to trigger a well placed jammer head.
Interesting!
trailtow
08-03-2009, 06:12 PM
where did you find thid info out from? must of been all that JTG steagul was doin
where did you find thid info out from? must of been all that JTG steagul was doin
This came from an officer recently certified to use laser in Gwinnett. I was unaware of the sub-500' prohibition - apparently on the GSP can take hidden shots, shots greater than 20 degrees off axis or shots under 500'.
Don't take my word for the GSP info; do your own research. This officer is less knowledgeable about laser and countermeasures than many of us are, but you can take what he says about his training to the bank.
Motor On
08-03-2009, 06:28 PM
Time for a LEO strobe mirrors and jammer heads placed in the strobe holes?
Should also provide more coverage for the windshield and roof
Z1NONLY
08-03-2009, 06:30 PM
So they no longer care if they set off radar detectors?
One of the main adavantages of laser is the ability to "cherry pick" a customer without any of your prospects slaming on the brakes and alerting all the drivers behind them.
Hmmmmm
At least rabbits with RD's will be more useful now...
category4
08-03-2009, 06:32 PM
I doubt at distances greater than 500' they can hit a side view mirror without setting of your jammers. I doubt they can even accurately hit your mirror.
I wonder if they would testify to that it court, if they do it really brings in the possibility they hit someone else and not you.
Stealth Stalker
08-03-2009, 06:36 PM
I know a few officers who have indeed perfected the manoeuvre pretty well. It's not as difficult as it looks, even freehand.
bradthemad
08-03-2009, 06:41 PM
I wonder if they would testify to that it court, if they do it really brings in the possibility they hit someone else and not you.
Exactly.
As for the 500' rule:
40-14-7. Visibility of vehicle from which device is operated
No stationary speed detection device shall be employed by county,
municipal, college, or university law enforcement officers where the
vehicle from which the device is operated is obstructed from the view of
approaching motorists or is otherwise not visible for a distance of at
least 500 feet.
Their vehicle has to be visible for 500'. This has nothing to do with targetting distance. I have heard DeKalb Co. PD running laser traps on multiple occasions calling out distances of under 500'.
srtga
08-03-2009, 06:44 PM
- apparently on the GSP can take hidden shots, shots greater than 20 degrees off axis or shots under 500'.
Don't take my word for the GSP info; do your own research. This officer is less knowledgeable about laser and countermeasures than many of us are, but you can take what he says about his training to the bank.
Do you mean that only GSP can do less than 500' and greater than 20 deg OA?
category4
08-03-2009, 07:06 PM
I hope they are shooting at greater than 20 degrees off axis. :D
A lot of them are running less than 500' lately, since most people just pay the ticket anyway what do they have to loose.
th3 factory freak
08-03-2009, 07:10 PM
I doubt at distances greater than 500' they can hit a side view mirror without setting of your jammers. I doubt they can even accurately hit your mirror.
We tried that with the PL3.
All I have to say is:
Good Luck!
category4
08-03-2009, 07:12 PM
I doubt at distances greater than 500' they can hit a side view mirror without setting of your jammers. I doubt they can even accurately hit your mirror.
We tried that with the PL3.
All I have to say is:
Good Luck!
You think they can get a reading without setting off the jammers with a PL3?
Stealth Stalker
08-03-2009, 07:36 PM
I don't know specifically about the PLIII, but getting a reading without setting off a jammer is not that hard at all if you're trying. And apparently, according to this thread, they're going to be trying. :eek:
The game just got more interesting!
category4
08-03-2009, 07:38 PM
I don't know specifically about the PLIII, but getting a reading without setting off a jammer is not that hard at all if you're trying. And apparently, according to this thread, they're going to be trying. :eek:
The game just got more interesting!
Well I'll let you know how it comes out, cause I get targeted pretty regularly here in Gwinnett.
Rsatmans has not had much luck targeting my side view mirrors, except at extremely close range.
category4
08-03-2009, 07:41 PM
Local GCPD officers going through LIDAR certification are being told to aim for the sideview mirrors. Fortunately, they can't take shots under 500' to court, so the beam should be wide enough to trigger a well placed jammer head.
Interesting!
Find out where your friend is running laser one day and we will see how well it works!:eek:
erickonphoenix
08-03-2009, 07:48 PM
I wonder what speed acquisition time is when targeting the SVM?
It can't be good so potentially even simple radar detector only equipped cars could possibly outbrake it.
Remember when Fritter worked the SVM to PT a jammer in the field. Fritter said the target had plenty of time to slow down he just didn't and that's why he got popped.
I doubt at distances greater than 500' they can hit a side view mirror without setting of your jammers. I doubt they can even accurately hit your mirror.
I wonder if they would testify to that it court, if they do it really brings in the possibility they hit someone else and not you.
Agree completely.
Find out where your friend is running laser one day and we will see how well it works!:eek:
I thought about inviting him to go up against rsatmans in the next Atlanta test event. That will either be his last day off or his first day on the next rotation; we'll see how it goes. That way, if a guard calls the cops, he can turn his lights on and act like he got me first. :D
category4
08-03-2009, 07:54 PM
I wonder what speed acquisition time is when targeting the SVM?
It can't be good so potentially even simple radar detector only equipped cars could possibly outbrake it.
Remember when Fritter worked the SVM to PT his jammer. Fritter said the target had plenty of time to slow down he just didn't and that's why he got popped.
Excellent point Erick!!
Stealth Stalker
08-03-2009, 08:23 PM
I wonder what speed acquisition time is when targeting the SVM?
It can't be good so potentially even simple radar detector only equipped cars could possibly outbrake it.
I don't want to get into specific technique here in public, but with the technique I know some officers (and some here too) are using, there is a good chance of relatively quick acquisition without a jammer or RD alert.
TSi+WRX
08-03-2009, 08:32 PM
Time to VEIL those mirrors, and embed LIs into the "grandpa eyes" areas. :D
Thanks for the heads-up, M6D, I head back to that area once a year or two, to visit my parents. :)
Z1NONLY
08-03-2009, 08:37 PM
The only reason to target SVM is to defeat jammers. Otherwise, it's just doing it the hard way.
ELVATO always targets this way. I have seen his "headlight shots" through the HUD and he basically "rubbs" the side of the car with the laser.
It does tend to get PT's but it also takes a few seconds. Even with weaksauce jammers.
TSi+WRX
08-03-2009, 08:51 PM
... Even with weaksauce jammers.
OMG, seriously, I think you and I are the only people who still use the word "weaksauce" in daily conversation! :p:D
erickonphoenix
08-03-2009, 08:53 PM
... Even with weaksauce jammers.
OMG, seriously, I think you and I are the only people who still use the word "weaksauce" in daily conversation! :p:D
Much more polite than the term "pussyjammers" we use down here. :D
But then again "pussyjammer" is a double entendre so it probably saves time.
th3 factory freak
08-03-2009, 08:58 PM
I doubt at distances greater than 500' they can hit a side view mirror without setting of your jammers. I doubt they can even accurately hit your mirror.
We tried that with the PL3.
All I have to say is:
Good Luck!
You think they can get a reading without setting off the jammers with a PL3?
OH, what I mean is: They got nothing on the mirrors over 500 ft. That's all I will say.
rsatmans
08-03-2009, 09:01 PM
This reminds me of the multiple 700ft PTs on category4 vette's side view mirrors :p.... yes it can be easily done.... but not farther than 750 ft, after that there is no telling if you are only hitting the mirror. The other scary part is on category4s f150 I do not think the blinder even alerted when I went for the mirrors.
This reminds me of the multiple 700ft PTs on category4 vette's side view mirrors :p.... yes it can be easily done.... but not farther than 750 ft, after that there is no telling if you are only hitting the mirror. The other scary part is on category4s f150 I do not think the blinder even alerted when I went for the mirrors.
Pick on the red guy. I can't remember... What did you get against me with all systems? I don't recall seeing any "multiple 700ft PTs" against a truly stealth car, but I'm old and slow, so it's possible I simply forgot. :D
Any thoughts on why the F150 didn't alert? Placement, jammer type or shooter skill?
kpatz
08-04-2009, 05:44 AM
Looks like we found a use for those "useless" ZR4 heads that come with the 9500ci (for those who use another jammer at least)... mount them in the SVMs! :D
Maybe matte black SVM housings will become the next trendy thing. ;)
TSi+WRX
08-04-2009, 06:48 AM
But then again "pussyjammer" is a double entendre so it probably saves time.
:lol: Knee-slapper!
8freerunner8
08-04-2009, 02:23 PM
You can still jam a side mirror shot as long as your jammers are well placed. The only thing that you have to worry about is if you pass them and they hit the side mirror, it is extremely reflective for obvious reasons.
category4
08-04-2009, 04:09 PM
This reminds me of the multiple 700ft PTs on category4 vette's side view mirrors :p.... yes it can be easily done.... but not farther than 750 ft, after that there is no telling if you are only hitting the mirror. The other scary part is on category4s f150 I do not think the blinder even alerted when I went for the mirrors.
You're talking about the MOAC also. It's not a situation you will likely find in the real world. I kind of remember it was also on a certain Mercedes!! :D
Aggie
08-05-2009, 08:41 PM
Easy way to defeat this if you are concerned and your car is equipped, pull the mirrors in and don't use them. One word of caution is to double check your blind spots!
I also believe this tactic will not be used unless they have a reason to believe you are equipped with CM. It takes patience and most of the motors around here are too busy painting every car so they go for center mass or LP for the quick acquisition.
erickonphoenix
08-05-2009, 09:38 PM
Easy way to defeat this if you are concerned and your car is equipped, pull the mirrors in and don't use them. One word of caution is to double check your blind spots!
I also believe this tactic will not be used unless they have a reason to believe you are equipped with CM. It takes patience and most of the motors around here are too busy painting every car so they go for center mass or LP for the quick acquisition.
Agreed^ and another reason to drive a vehicle with a small frontal profile. I'm strongly considering going C4 vette next lab car to see just how stealth I can get. Flat black paint, pull the lower fog lights and replace with grills. It wouldn't be pretty but it would have great passive stealthness.
Stealth Stalker
08-05-2009, 09:53 PM
The few flat black cars I have seen looked badarse. Veil that puppy out and it'll be positively invisible.
erickonphoenix
08-05-2009, 09:58 PM
The few flat black cars I have seen looked badarse. Veil that puppy out and it'll be positively invisible.
If I could pull one of the ZR1 varieties of C4 that would be awesome! DaveNDallas has a 93 ZR1 but it's firmly "not for sale". Dark green with a tan interior. mmmmmm good. I think he picked it up for 27k in 2004. :mad: Worth a little more than that now.
PMoth
08-06-2009, 06:24 AM
The only reason to target SVM is to defeat jammers. Otherwise, it's just doing it the hard way.
ELVATO always targets this way. I have seen his "headlight shots" through the HUD and he basically "rubbs" the side of the car with the laser.
It does tend to get PT's but it also takes a few seconds. Even with weaksauce jammers.
This is the way we do it up here in the NE and it usually causes problems for the driver.
th3 factory freak
08-06-2009, 09:40 AM
My next car will have a 3 head LI, 2 for the mirrors/headlights, 1 for center mass.
I wish the mirror shooters best wishes and good luck with their future endeavors. :D
MEM-TEK
08-07-2009, 06:47 PM
And yet shooting side mirrors at distances greater than 500 feet has a significant possibility of speed measurement errors with probably more than a few lidar gun models. Why? The headlights at greater distances fall within the field of view.
category4
08-07-2009, 06:52 PM
And yet shooting side mirrors at distances greater than 500 feet has a significant possibility of speed measurement errors with probably more than a few lidar gun models. Why? The headlights at greater distances fall within the field of view.
That's an excellent point to make if you could get the officer to admit to targeting the mirrors in the courtroom. Wish I could get a written copy of this training procedure.
And yet shooting side mirrors at distances greater than 500 feet has a significant possibility of speed measurement errors with probably more than a few lidar gun models. Why? The headlights at greater distances fall within the field of view.
That's an excellent point to make if you could get the officer to admit to targeting the mirrors in the courtroom. Wish I could get a written copy of this training procedure.
I'll see if I can get my hands on one.