WANTED:Someone in WA state Blinder and Lidatek for testing

[JTW]

I'm looking for someone that lives in Washington State that has a Blinder M20 xtreme or Lidatek laser jammer installed on their car. The M20 must have been purchased by an authorized Blinder distributor and the unit has to be installed by a professional. The M20 must have been purchased before September 4th, 2004 in order to make sure the unit was not suped up by the maker.

If you meet the following requirements above JammerTests.com would like to set up a video taped test run against a Laser Atlanta in stealth mode. I personally have an M20 on my car and a video taped test run will hopefully be shot this weekend, but it would be nice if somone other than myself had an M20 that could be tested as well. The owner of the blinder that is being tested must agree to have the video test uploaded and viewed on JammerTests.com for an indefinite amout of time and will agree to NOT be compensated in any way shape or form. The owner of the blinder gives the producer of the video, JammerTests.com, full rights to use and distribute the video however he feels fit. Half of the license plate will be duct taped to ensure the privacy of the owner car.

There is an argument that ALL blinder M20's jam stealth mode. JammerTests.com is looking for an M20 that is about 1 year old to prove that this is not true and that the Blinder M20's sold up to 1 year after the SML report were older version that didn't have the capability to jam stealth. This is why we are testing an older unit, not a brand new one. I feel that the people that have already bought the M20 deserve to know if they were mislead or not. If Blinder has nothing to hide then JammerTests.com will not come up with anything. We will video tape the truth because we could get sued if we didn't.

Please email at info[at]JammerTests.com.

Chris

[Veil Guy]

I don't get it.

Why are you insisting on testing an older version of a product.

This doesn't make any sense. Do you have an agenda here?

Your reference to avoiding to testing a product not "suped up" is perplexing to me. If a company has updated their products over time why not test the most current version?

The Veil Guy 8)

[sethy]

I'm sure if blinder comes out with a new jammer that they will insist on selling the old ones first. Or the hundreds already in teh warehouses must be sold as well. I am not seeing an agenda, I just am seeing someone that wants to get the facts straight.

[mauiman84]

but there shouldn't be any problem selling any of the old m20 or m40 since they are all upgradable on the software point of view

[JTW]

Veil guy, you are totally missing my point. Lets bring it into another perspecitve for you to understand.

Lets pretend that Escort came out with the 8500 KU50 that was designed to detect a new KU band. Now lets say you bought this new KU50 for $50.00 more then the now older X50 version. You get this nice radar detector from escort and on the box it says KU50 and on the detector it says KU50. Ironically, your next door neighbor is a police officer that was just issued a KU band radar gun. You test out the detector and find out the detector does NOT detect KU band at all!

Do you think it would make the consumer upset if they figured out the computer software in the new model KU100 was the same as the older model X50? Sethy has it right on the money. It's very much possible that these M10's could have simply been put into M20 casings and new boxes for about a year and then Blinder ran out of the surplus and decided to finally give out the REAL M20. If I buy an M20 I want to receive the M20 reviews on the SML report. I dont' want some M10 version put into an M20 casing. You can't see the point Veil guy? On another posting I read you admitted to Blinder having different versions of the M20 just like Blinder International admitted to it. What is the matter with this? The problem is possibly thousands of people purchased an M20 they thought beat steath mode, but it wasn't the same version that SML tested. What Sethy says makes perfect sense. I'm not saying this is what Blinder did, but it's a possibility that blinder did have a surplus of M10's. How many civilians or consumers of the M20 or any other laser jammer for that matter own a Laser Atlanta with stealth mode? Like Rocky Mountain Radar it's pretty safe to assume that knowbody is going to have a $3,500.00 lidar gun to actually test the product. SML probably tested an M20 that came directly from Denmark that had the new software. Now Veil guy will say what is the big deal if you got an older version of the M20? You can always upgrade it! The big deal is people already spent $350.00 for the unit and $150.00 to install the thing. Now you're saying that people will be excited to spend $100.00 to uninstall the jammer to spend another $50.00 to ship it to Denmark? Give me a break Veil Guy. People want to receive what was advertised. They don't want old surplus placed in a new box.

It would be ethical for Blinder to place a new version number on the box, so it would be clearly identified as a new version.

So the question is why do I want to test the older M20s(1 year old)? Lets think about this Veil guy. Leon will tell you any M20 will jam stealth mode. Well...if this is true lets see if one of the older M20's are the same as the new ones. Would Blinder be upset if I uncovered a surplus liquidation scheme to put older M10's into M20 casings until 6 months ago? Can you imagine the cost of the recall it would cost blinder to update the software on the older M20's to the software of the newer version they were supposed to get in the first place? I bought my M20 about a YEAR after the SML report and I still got the older version. This matter should be addressed by Blinder and a public appology and recall should be issued for all the older M20's that were advertised.

Laser Veil guy made the comment that I may have an agenda. Lets put this into perspective shall we. Laser Veil sells products that are designed to work with BLINDER and other laser jammers. On the other hand I don't sell laser jammers at all. Who do you think would be more biased?

Laser Veil guy also says that Laser Atlanta has only 6% of the market share. In my opinion I believe this to be a true statement by Veil. The fact Laser Atlanta only has 6% of the market share doesn't matter. The point is Blinder claimed one thing and then sold another. I think Blinder is still the best laser jammer currently in production and if you have the older M20 I still think that it is better then the ZR3 or bel laser pros. This post was meant to educate people and to not let ANY company get away with misleading the public. I hope Blinder will learn from this and not have SML test new versions of it's jammer while selling older versions in the same box. Valentine One's look exactly the same. If I buy a 1.8 version I want to get a 1.8 version, not a 1.7 version without pop.

The truth should never be covered up by new soil. I will test any M20 I want to Veil guy and if that's unacceptable then maybe you have an agenda to stop me from uncovering a dirty little secret that wasn't supposed to be dug up.

For all you newbies out their looking for a laser jammer I still suggest you buy a Blinder M20 from Radar Roy. The new versions of the M20's should be out by now and in circulation. For all the guys that got the older versions I suggest you write Blinder International and demand the new version....because you paid for it.

Chris

[JTW]

Continued from last post

...meant to educate people and to not let ANY company get away with misleading the public. I hope Blinder will learn from this and not have SML test new versions of it's jammer while selling older versions in the same box. Valentine One's look exactly the same. If I buy a 1.8 version I want to get a 1.8 version, not a 1.7 version without pop.

The truth should never be covered up by new soil. I will test any M20 I want to Veil guy and if that's unacceptable then maybe you have an agenda to stop me from uncovering a dirty little secret that wasn't supposed to be dug up.

For all you newbies out their looking for a laser jammer I still suggest you buy a Blinder M20 from Radar Roy. The new versions of the M20's should be out by now and in circulation. For all the guys that got the older versions I suggest you write Blinder International and demand the new version....because you paid for it.

Chris

[happya$$]

Bob,

I do not see an agenda either. I see his point.

[Veil Guy]

OK, no worries.

May I suggest that you just ask the Blinder Dude. I should think he would know and would tell you straight.

The Veil Guy 8)

[happya$$]

but there shouldn't be any problem selling any of the old m20 or m40 since they are all upgradable on the software point of view

No but when you talk about international shipping then there is a problem

[Veil Guy]

OK,

I spoke to the Blinder Dude and here's the timeline.

1) Blinder comes out with the M20 Xtreme (M40 not shipped yet)
2) Laser Atlanta announces Stealth Mode operating option
3) Blinder acquires the upgrade to the Laser Atlanta gun
4) Within two weeks, TA & Blinder DK had an update to deal with it
5) M20s and soon to ship M40s incorporate the new capability

Leon also told me that if you happen to own a very early version of the M20 that was shipped prior to the introduction of stealth mode, he offered to you a "warranty" replacement and that you have not replied to his email offer as yet.

I don't know what else there is to say; this feels like a red herring.

Guys, with respect to an agenda. My understanding is this gentleman tried to sell Blinder on the Internet some time ago, had difficulty in moving product, and then priced the product below the MAP to blow the product out which went against the channel policy despite repeated requests to stop the practice of "whoring" product.

Site was dropped this Monday/Tuesday.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040923053943/http://stopphotoradar.com/

Whois of site:
http://www.whois.net/whois.cgi2?d=stopphotoradar.com

Whois of jammertests.com:
http://www.whois.net/whois.cgi2?d=jammertests.com

They're the same registration.

The Veil Guy 8)

[happya$$]

Very interesting Bob. Anyway I am STILL waiting for Blinder.dk to reply back to me about my units. I emailed them my serial numbers.

[Radar Roy]

Ok, let me throw my two cents into this....

First off let me express my pleasure in having the webmaster of jammertests.com on our forum. He offers allot of insight and his videos of the RMR crap are priceless!

He did contact me last week advising that his Laser Atlanta in "stealth mode" would not set off the Blinder.

This raised some suspicions as the Blinder did jam the Laser Atlanta at the 2003 Speed Zones testing.

Here is a link to the 2003 test: http://www.radarbusters.com/support/speedlabs/radar-laser-jamming.asp

Here is a link to the 2004 test: http://www.radarbusters.com/support/speedlabs-2004/active-laser-jamming.asp

There was a Laser Atlanta at the 2004 test, but because there was no other laser jammer companies that wanted their product tested, this test was not published. An informal run was done against the Laser Atlanta with my truck, my Harley and it jammed.

The M-40 Blinder on my truck was installed in May of 2004, a month prior to the 2004 test. The Blinder on my Harley was installed in April of 2003. The Blinder on my daughter’s 2005 Chevy Aveo was installed in December of 2004.

Then in January of 2004 with my truck, bike and daughter’s car was run against a Laser Atlanta (in Stealth Mode), a Kustom and a Stalker. It jammed all three guns!

Then in an even more recent (soon to be published) test that I am aware of the Blinder was also successful in jamming the Laser Atlanta in Stealth Mode.

So instead of the “Blinder” being at fault or upgraded/downgraded, could it be that perhaps the Laser Atlanta that is being used by jammertests was upgraded??

[JTW]

Now we are getting somewhere! Thanks for the info Veil! In the beginning Leon refused to admitt that the M20 didn't jam all guns. According to Veil guy he is now admitting to it that the old version M20 didn't. Bravo!

Veil guy made a timeline that clearly proves my point...but he forgot a few things. Here is what really matters to the consumer. The question is not when the new Blinder M20 software was invented. The IMPORTANT point is when the newer blinder M20 was SOLD! The timeline below reflects my own experience. Who really knows when the last M20(old version) finally left the shelves.

1. Blinder M20 is invented without stealth mode countermeasure
2. laser Atlanta develops stealth mode
3. Blinder invents software to defeat stealth mode, but old units are still in warehouses and are still being shipped to customers under Blinder M20 name.
4. August 2003-Speed Measurement Labs tests new blinder that beats stealth.
5. Auguest/September 2003 - USblinder starts advertising Blinder M20 beats all guns even though they are still selling "old version" blinder M20's that don't beat stealth. Emphasis on selling outdated version as new version.
6. 1 year after speed labs reports Blinder M20 is effective against stealth mode JammerTests Webmaster buys the M20 advertised to beat stealth
7. JammerTests Webmaster finds out that 1 year after the test USblinder is still selling "old version M20's", but they are advertising them as the new M20's that beat stealth.

That is the time line that is important here. Blinder was advertising their M20's beat stealth ever since the Speedlabs report, yet an entire year later they are still selling the OLD VERSION. AN ENTIRE YEAR LATER!

Veil guy makes less money if a Blinder or any laser jammer isn't sold because Veil is an "upsell" to a laser jammer or a radar detector. It is in his best interest that a laser jammer is sold because it is recommended that Veil be used in conjunction with a laser jammer. Lets not talk about agendas here because Veil guy really has no room to talk.

Leon at USBlinder should NOT have sold "older version" M20's as being the same "newer version" tested by SML. This is an obvious ethical NO NO and Leon at US blinder should appologize for this on his website and issue a recall for selling M20's to people that thought they were getting the new version.

Veil guy trys to confuse the topic/real issue that the "older version" was made before the "stealth mode" was invented. selling "older version" M20's before stealth came out is eithical and not disputed. Selling "older vesion" m20's under the "new version" M20's advertisements for an entire year is wrong.

Get it now Veil Guy?

My "agenda" is to see USblinder appologize on their website for their unethical actions over a year ago. USblinder might make the best laser jammer in the world, but that is no excuse to lie to the public.

When Blinder International comes out with a new product I know that I'm going to wait 2 years to purchase the update just so I can be sure I won't get the old version. Write version numbers on the box.

[JTW]

RadarRoy, I will give Blinder the benefit of the doubt the "new version" M20's beat stealth. My complaint was that USblinder sold "old versions" as new versions for one year after the 2003 report. This is not the fault of Radar Roy at all.

By now all the M20s sold by Radar Roy will probably work against stealth mode. My issue is with a past ethical decision, not a current model flaw on the M20. This of course is assuming SML is correct on the 2004 decsion. I will retract my assumption if I test otherwise.

Chris

[JTW]

Radar Roy, thanks for your input on the possibility the Stealth Mode may have been changed by Laser Atlanta. Unfortunately, I used one of the older model Speed Laser Type R's with stealth. I have a new Speed Laser S that will arrive on my doorstep tomorrow. This forum will be the first to know if I receive a different test result.

Chris

[Veil Guy]

I didn't inform you with anything that you already didn't know. This was for the benefit of the other readers who weren't aware of your previous relationship with Blinder as a disgruntled dealer.

Its funny to hear you suggest that I have a financial interest in Blinder sales when you, yourself did and did not disclose.

I am pleased with you approach to exposing RMR for what it is, but your charges against Leon & TA, are unfounded, I believe as they're both stand-up guys.

I have no financial interest in laser jammer sales and/or radar detector sales. I think I have already gone through this sort of thing before. It was nonsense then and its nonsense now. I am simply standing up for individuals whom I firmly believe have intregrity and that's proven to me over a period of time.

This thread is a joke...

Have a nice day.

The Veil Guy 8)

PS: The new gun from LA is interesting, though, and I would be interested to hear your findings on this gun!

[JTW]

I use to sell Rocky Mountain Radar "scramblers" as well Veil guy. Am I disgruntled at RMR? Yes, very much so! Does this change the fact that just because I'm disgruntled against RMR my videos and claims are not true? I legally have to report the truth because if I don't I can get sued for libel. All my videos and reviews are documented and witnessed by others for my own legal protection. Me being disgruntled doesn't change the RMR reviews I've posted and it sure doesn't change my findings with Blinder. Your attempt to discredit me by saying I'm upset with blinder really doesn't make sense, especially since I recommend the M20 as the best laser jammer produced today.

We are sort of the same Veil Guy. I will stick up for my friends too, but I will never stick up for my friends misdeeds. This topic has really been beaten to death! Prosecution rests. Defense gets the final word LOL.

You have a good day as well Veil.

Chris

P.S. I have a funny(at least to me anyway) and factual video coming out in two days showing the similarities of an RMR Phazer 2 and a Philipps laser jammer. You'll love it :-)

[Radar Roy]

Well as perhaps being one of Blinder's largest dealers, let me jump into the middle of this.

I remember quite clearly of the Xtreme's release and the deal with the Laser Atlanta, because I lost a TON of sales because of it.

Blinder gave their first release date of the Blinder Xtreme as March 1st, 2003. We began accepting orders for the unit on 2/1/2003

As the March date approached, Blinder contacted us and said that they decided not to ship any of their units from Denmark until a fix for the new Laser Atlanta was out.

We did not get an Xtreme until 7/24/2003.

Because of the five month wait, we lost 25% of the orders that were placed.

Blinder could had shipped us non Stealth Atlanta models early on, and then the revised unit in the summer and they would have had not lost those sales. But they didn't..

[sethy]

Jammertests, I appreachiate what you are doing here. Someone that is willing to stand out and take a beating to get their words accross is well respected in my book.

However, I do believe that you're accusation toward the veil guy being biased with the coupling of veil and a laser jammer is a bit off. I always believed that the true point of veil is for those states that make it illegal to have jammers, or an alternative to a jmmer to save some $$$

[Veil Guy]

Sethy,

If I came across as "bashing" I am truly sorry. That was not my intent.

In fact, I have been [historically] on the otherside of pointed words on this forum.

I just don't believe for one second that Blinder packaged M10s as M20s. I just don't believe it. Since each one is hand assembled Chris may be addressing something that only affected several weeks of early production and a very limited number of units. Blinder will have to speak to that and my understanding is that they have attempted to resolve any questions.

I have been representing Blinder since they have not answered the posts directly as best as I can.

If you see a point to all this, perhaps I did miss something in Chris' posts?

But I don't see Blinder selling M10s (for a year) as M20s.

I am sorry, I just don't believe it. If you can actually demonstrate this (if this is your intent) then I'll personally post a correction along with an apology.

The Veil Guy 8)

[sethy]

No I wasn't refering to you as bashing, that's not it at all. Just a lot of people have called him wrong on this forum and he hasn't changed his stance. I think its impressive :)

[Blinder Dude]

Chris,

I hope your sales are better this time around.

I remember when you were asking for pics. for your site. I told you e-bay and selling below Map would get you nowhere.

If you don't remember me it's Leon from Blinder. Let's get things straight. As in Roy's last email we had a hard time between the M-10 and the M-20. As you have it all backwards, let's get things straight.

The first M-20 came out as M-10 and not the way you have twisted it.

Just as you have taken parts of an e-mail from DK. We did not have the housing for the M-20 and sold the new units as the M-10. No one knew they were getting the up-graded software it was a bonus.

Laser Stealth came out during that time and we held the M-20 until we were ready. The M-10 was being shipped with the software, do you have a problem with this? Not that you are priviledged to Blinder business this is what will stop this thread.

We are the only jammer on the market with software that can be up- graded until there is reason why should we do so. If anyone has ANY doubt call me @ 1-866-622-7219.

This thread is over.

Blinder Dude.

[Veil Guy]

RadarRoy,

Thanks for your insight into this matter.

I simply couldn't believe that Blinder would sell an older unit as a newer one.

Your and Leon's account sounds much more plausible.

Defense rests. :wink:

The Veil Guy 8)

[Veil Guy]

JammerTests Webmaster,

You may be right. I am supporting the people I have come to know, trust and believe in.

I just don't see any misdeeds...

BTW, Blinder Dude, i'll be taking a chill pill, now.

Closing statement.

The Veil Guy 8)

[sethy]

I find the defendend veil guy, guilty.

Your sentence is to send out a free can of veil to Sethy :)

[happya$$]

Juror #2........ "I find him NOT guilty"

[sethy]

There is no jurer #2, this is a small claims court and im the judge judy

[JTW]

Hi Leon,

Thanks for joining us on this thread. I never stated it was an absolute fact Blinder put M10's in M20 casings. That was merely a possibility on the reason why a year later after the SML report came out I still received an "old version" M20. If you quit selling the "old version" M20's like you said you did please explain to me Leon why I got an old version 1 year later. It's not like this is a few days after the new M20's came out.

All you had to do Leon to end this thread was appologize for selling me an older version M20 a year after the new ones came out. I don't want an upgrade(not worth my time to deal with because I'll probably never run into a laser atlanta). All I want is an appology. No money, no business deals, no dealer prices....just one appology. Is it that hard?

For all the newbies out there this thread is about a past ethical issue. This is not about the current performance of the Blinder M20.

Okay, can we please go back to what this thread was meant for in the first place? I'm looking for anyone in Washington State that has a new or old version M20 to test on video.

Thank you Roy for letting me voice my opinion on this matter. Thank you Veil Guy for the discussion...no hard feelings. Leon, I'm not going to sell your Blinder's(I'll let Roy do that), but I will always promise you to give honest video reviews regardless if we don't see eye to eye on something. I have already forgiven you Leon...was just hoping you'd appologize. I'm sure for the most part you're a good guy like Veil guy says. After all it's not like you sold me a Rocky Mountain Radar piece of ****!

Chris

[Veil Guy]

What happened to Judge Wapner? Judy is cool, though.

Thanks happya$$ for your support. I think Sethy was "bribed" [with VEIL.] :lol:

The Veil Guy 8)

[Blinder Dude]

Guys, Sorry I have been on the road for the last few days. I am gald to see every one has calmed down and we can get back to business. What's up.

[Hessen]

Guys, Sorry I have been on the road for the last few days. I am gald to see every one has calmed down and we can get back to business. What's up.

We want a head to head test of the Lidatek LE30 and the Blinder M20

[Blinder Dude]

That's old news. The results will be out soon. The testing was done by an independent source. Every gun, seven of them hands down BLINDER. The unit you are talking about had to take a break during the testing (over heating problem). The results are not out so I will hold off in naming products. I hope you understand. Thank you. I am pushing for the results daily.

[Hessen]

Waiting impatiently...... :wink:

[antilaser]

We are the only jammer on the market with software that can be up- graded until there is reason why should we do so. If anyone has ANY doubt call me @ 1-866-622-7219.

Incorrect! Even that we are currently limited to south-east Europe, AntiLaser jammers do support and often are upgraded to the new software releases. We clearly print on the sticker exactly which software version is integrated in the product. Some customers value every improvement that we provide in software so there are buyers that brought their units more than once for software upgrade (improvements were often made in other funnctions of the AntiLaser such as safety parking sensor etc.)

[Hessen]

Anti Laser........Your web site looks interesting.......but.....
is there an English version?

[Blinder Dude]

Anti Laser
Blinder technology is guarded with a full US Patent. Anti Laser has done somewhat of a back design, but does not have the true technology. This is why they failed on the testing, done late of 2004. These other jammers will not hit the US market because of the US patent Blinder has. The copy is all the way down to the S/N# to the upgraded software #. If they decide to open the US market our lawyers are waiting. You need the full technology to get the full jam and no false alarms. This would be the Blinder. Let's do some testing!

[antilaser]

Anti Laser has done somewhat of a back design, but does not have the true technology. This is why they failed on the testing, done late of 2004. These other jammers will not hit the US market because of the US patent Blinder has. The copy is all the way down to the S/N# to the upgraded software #.

Well I must admit that I am surprised with such lack of knowledge from a such a respected member of a community! The AntiLaser unit is not remotely similar to the Blinder. The only thing incoming is that both receive and transmit IR light :D and I don't think you have a patent on that :) .
S/n ? what are you talking about? What testing 2004? First time we dealt with SML was this year! Did you confuse us with some of those Blinder pirates that are around? The starting point of the AntiLaser jammers was 2001 Laser parking sensor that grew to be full grown jammer. AntiLaser technology is so farther ahead of the good old Blinder LEDs that it would take me a whole page to describe the strongpoints. Please tell me that you have made a mistake in such a accusation so I wouldn't have to tell everybody what a low cost device Blinder really is.

[happya$$]

As a customer I can care less what technology each unit uses. All I care about are RESULTS. When it comes down to performance the Blinder is on a league all on its OWN. No one can touch it and independent tests have proven this over and over and over and over again.

[Blinder Dude]

Let's do some head to head testing. Anyone can write anything on a box. We are waiting for a anti laser box to hit US soil. I am waiting for some true competition. Get the false alarms fixed before you come over. Please send me a unit or better yet come along with it. Let's do some testing.

[sethy]

Cant we just all get along?? :roll:

[Hessen]

It's time to Put Up or Shut Up .....Let's see some head to head test results..... :wink:

[happya$$]

Well it is not Blinder's fault for being so darn good. If Blinder was an average product there would be competition. Dont knock Blinder for being light years ahead in performance than any other product.

[Veil Guy]

happya$$,

Dude when you're number #1 you have painted on you a BIG BULLS-EYE!

I suspect it's always been that way...

The Veil Guy 8)

[antilaser]

I am sorry for a overreacting but Blinder guy put some serious accusation on me that don't hold water. The AntiLaser Team admits our stuff aint perfect, that's why we posted the 62% results test sheet on the site. But we intent to get better! We already purchased Laser Atlanta and Ultralyte is on the way so soon enough we will be competing with the blinder. The customers really don't need to know what technology products use as long as it gets them results! What they do need to know is the price at which they are getting their product. And that is something many will appreciate about AntiLaser when compared with competition. Release is planned for the end of autumn.

[Blinder Dude]

Who likes Baseball the Marlins are back in town. Sorry our Dolphins suck but I still have season tickets. We are planning trips to the Bahamas all I need is gas money let's go. See it's not all work around here. Anyone planning a trip to good old FLA. give us a heads up.

[Veil Guy]

antilaser,

Spoken like a true gentleman.

The Blinder Dude, has been run a little ragged lately with some of the threads here. :wink:

He needs to take some of his own advise by taking a chill pill. :lol:

This forum really is the Wild West, instead of bullets, we've got words! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Newer, the Older..

The Veil Guy 8)