Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: skidding......

  1. #1
    Professional
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    868

    Default skidding......

    Ok. i drive a mazda 6, 2.3L.

    It's front wheel drive.

    I wanted to ask your opinions on loss of traction during turns.

    1. At low speeds, i.e. below 80 km/h, can i expect my front wheels to skid first, or my back wheels to skid first? i.e. understeer first before over steering occurs?

    2. At higher speeds, above 100-140 km/h, can i expect my back wheels to skid first without any understeering to warn me?

    I get very scared to pusy my car to the limits on the turns, its stock, but with near R-compound tyres, AD07. I can handle a bit of understeering, but i get terrified of oversteer.
    On low speeds, does under steering occur first? Therefore i get a slight skidding sound to warn me that i'm near my limits?
    On high speeds, does oversteer occur first? I.e. i most likely wont get any advanced skidding sound before my back slides out?

    Further more..... is it correct to assume that, if during a turn, you are already at the edge of your car's handling capacity, if you brake coz u think ur too fast, or if there's an obstacle ahead, chances are the braking will cause your back to slide out and u will lose control of the vehicle?

  2. #2
    Power User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    In Car RamRod
    Posts
    4,001

    Default Re: skidding......

    1; Id say it depends on if you are accelerating or not...in both cases id say the front will skid first, it would take a fair bit to make the rear skid and if you did jerk the wheel im almost certain the front would still lose traction first.

    2; 50/50 on this one....if you unsettle the car enough the rear will skid (again depending on what throttle is used) and also how sharp the corner is.

    I would suggest you find a street where there is not much to hit and practise getting into a skid and getting out of it. I do this all the time and I actually have a skidpan day booked at a famous race track here in a few weeks, I get to push my car to the limit and not worry about hitting anything or getting a ticket. This is a great way for you to learn.

    After all the various advanced tarmac and dirt driving courses ive done it has really opened my eyes as to how far i can push my car.... you will be suprised

    I am always hoping for rain...thats when i get to have fun with my 5.7L RWD car

    Good Luck

  3. #3
    Yoda of Radar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    11,016

    Default

    1&2 Also depend on the circumstances, a car will react different on rain-slicked roads (snow/ice especially..not sure if you have those where you live) rather then perfectly dry patch of pavement.

    1&2 also depend where in the corner it takes place... pre-apex or post-apex.


    You really should try to avoid braking in(to) a corner, you want to have all that done before you get into the corner. It will create for smoother turns (lines through the corner), and also it allows 100% of the traction (and suspension) to be used towards turning... (like you said) if your are braking into a corner you have to use the (tire) traction (and the suspension) not only to simply turn the car, but also to slow it down... you only have a finite amount of both tire/suspension helping you turn, and you sure dont want to have braking taking up some of that in the corner.

    If you get real good I guess you could try to use some trail braking... but for your purposes id shy away from that (it is a very hairy thing to accomplish thats why the people whom do it the most... are race car drivers).

  4. #4
    Radar Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    2,274

    Default

    Usually

    FWD understeer
    RWD oversteer

    yeah dont brake when in the corner... it really depends, it may cause your rear to slide out

    i know me and my freinds were playing in an wet emty parking lot and i was braking while turning and the cur spun out (i was testing the car with abs off-- not going to do that again)

  5. #5
    Yoda of Radar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    11,016

    Default

    Yeah a lot of people prefer ABS, personally I hate driving any cars equipped with ABS.

  6. #6
    Radar Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    2,274

    Default

    ABS has saved me a couple of times

    when the guy in front all of a sudden brakes and its wet out... gives you a better chance to steer

    i guess i can pay more attention and slow down

    its just good to know its there

  7. #7
    Yoda of Radar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    11,016

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by f_399
    ABS has saved me a couple of times

    when the guy in front all of a sudden brakes and its wet out... gives you a better chance to steer

    i guess i can pay more attention and slow down

    its just good to know its there
    Yeah its all what one personally prefers.

    A lot of people like it(ABS)... because if they dont have a smooth enough brakefoot (or good emergency control skills)... it gives them an out.

    I personally feel much safer when my input into the pedals/steering wheel/shifter is the only input that goes to the ground... I dont want a little computer telling me what I WANT my brakes to do.
    I especially hate the jerky feedback through the steering wheel and through the pedal(even though everything is getting smoother through the years of ABS), I love to be smooth when I drive, and I love to have smooth feedback from it.

    So I completely see why ABS is thrown into cars as it helps the average driver out of sticky situations... but for the few 'pilots' out there ahhhh. :x

  8. #8
    Yoda of Radar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    In front of my computer
    Posts
    10,773

    Default

    GM did a study, they showed that rollovers on ABS cars were much higher than others, since people kept stabbing the brake and yanking the wheel! :roll:

    Your 6 is probably going to understeer like a madman with increased speed. You could trigger some oversteer by doing a particular something to break traction with the rear tires (ie handbrake, or press the brake and gas at same time), but as long as the rear tires have more grip than the front you are understeering.

    Understeering is boring anyway. Oversteer is fun because it looks cool and you can drive faster

  9. #9
    Yoda of Radar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    11,016

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmaartAasSaabr
    GM did a study, they showed that rollovers on ABS cars were much higher than others, since people kept stabbing the brake and yanking the wheel! :roll:
    Yeah I remember an (independant) study a long time ago that showed ABS actually caused more accidents, because the people who owned ABS equipped cars didnt know how to correctly use them (IE just keep pressing harder!) so they would do all sorts of crazy things and cause more (minor) accidents... now however with ABS it is keeping more people out of accidents because it has become so common-place and people are familiar with ABS use.

  10. #10
    Power User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    In Car RamRod
    Posts
    4,001

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmaartAasSaabr
    Your 6 is probably going to understeer like a madman with increased speed. You could trigger some oversteer by doing a particular something to break traction with the rear tires (ie handbrake, or press the brake and gas at same time), but as long as the rear tires have more grip than the front you are understeering.
    GAS and Brake on FWD car wont make the rear slide...it will send the car into the gutter with no steering at all

    Just a quick tap on the emergency brake then nail the throttle will get you out sideways...must be a quick tap tho..just enough to unsettle the car and shift the weight where you want it....

    just remember, on FWD cars momentum is your key to success

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •