I know radar Roy says it hurts performance, but what do you guys think?

[TSi+WRX]

^ I understand that. That's supposedly the current thinking, claimed, as to why the old "three-heads forward" "enthusiast's setup" of the ZR3 won't translate to the ZR4.

But what I'm asking, by citing your post above, is instead why a 4-head forward (two front heads, x2), either via splitter or another control-box (i.e. total system), setup of the ZR4, according to Roy, did not show any improvements.

[thestaton]

Originally Posted by Z1NONLY

Why go through the trouble of designing the front and rear out of phase if it's not simply a byproduct of other factors? (I.e. different components for the different-shape shell on the rear shifter or the need for a longer cable on the rear shifter.)

I just don't think that, after getting all the different jamming algorithms nailed down, one of the engineers said, "Ok guys, now lets figure out how to make the front and rear operate out of phase with each other."

haha, I don't think you know Escort engineers.

[focalcivic]

Originally Posted by MEM-TEK

I don't think that the cable length has anything to do with it. My guess is that the rear shifter has a much broader emission beam pattern which could conceivably be picked up weakly by the two front shifter heads if the rear shifter head is also installed up front. Possibly the result could be that the two front shifter heads then start trying to shift the weakly detected shifted emissions from the rear shifter when it too is installed up front? This is just a wild guess.

Heck, this post might be the first time I have pegged out my BS meter in quite some time!

Actually, that might have something to do with it. Think of it this way the rear head might be timed different than the front heads, I wonder in essence it might cause a cross talk issue with itself?

[Sosticegxp]

I am brand new to the forum and have only just retaken ownership of my bank account from the greedy ass city photo enforcement hounds.....

I just installed my ZR3's on my Solstice GXP - the only place to do so was behind the honeycomb grill. I called Escort and the tech said that is the place for them and it will work fine...If anyone has seen the front end of a Pontiac Solstice GXP please let me know your thoughts....I have also just purchased VEIL it is on its way...When I put that stuff on my front lights, fogs and indicators and on rear lights and plate does anybody have any info on how well I can expect to be covered?

I actually have had the Ultralyte try to get me from rear a few times, twice the jammer was on for a long time and the other 3 or 4 times just for a bit...I assume when just for a bit they got punch through and when for a while they had a hard time....just a guess, but does this sound like what is happening?....they use these guns for photo Lidar in my home town and my goal is to f*&k em up (JFG) everytime.....one last question does the Zr4 heads protect against ultrlyte any better that zr3?

[focalcivic]

Originally Posted by Sosticegxp

I am brand new to the forum and have only just retaken ownership of my bank account from the greedy ass city photo enforcement hounds.....

I just installed my ZR3's on my Solstice GXP - the only place to do so was behind the honeycomb grill. I called Escort and the tech said that is the place for them and it will work fine...If anyone has seen the front end of a Pontiac Solstice GXP please let me know your thoughts....I have also just purchased VEIL it is on its way...When I put that stuff on my front lights, fogs and indicators and on rear lights and plate does anybody have any info on how well I can expect to be covered?

I actually have had the Ultralyte try to get me from rear a few times, twice the jammer was on for a long time and the other 3 or 4 times just for a bit...I assume when just for a bit they got punch through and when for a while they had a hard time....just a guess, but does this sound like what is happening?....they use these guns for photo Lidar in my home town and my goal is to f*&k em up (JFG) everytime.....one last question does the Zr4 heads protect against ultrlyte any better that zr3?

Im sorry to tell you the ZR3 doesn't offer much protection, and behind a grill you might as well not have a jammer. The Zr4 is better, but even so you will need the heads exposed and level.

Look at these recent results Radar Detector Tests and Reviews by Guys of LIDAR

[Sosticegxp]

OK I have now got the heads flush with the grill I.E . exposed out front. Coupled with veil this should offer pretty good protection right??....As for the GOL test the ZR3 performed better against the ultralyte 2020 than the ZR4, unless Im reading it wrong...

We don't have the stealth gun in use here so no need for ZR3 here

anyone else have comments on my setup...from the vids I've seen veil with the ZR3 has performed pretty well for jamming......plus my Solstice has a very small rounded front end

[Arashi666]

well for starters they were tested on different cars, and I dare say the HHR for the ZR4 had it alot worse. . . so im just gonna dismiss it as that

ZR3 vs LA stealth doesnt exist, according to GOL it didnt even register, whereas the ZR4 jammed it consistently

[TSi+WRX]

^ I can also confirm that the Laser Atlanta "Stealth Mode" will *not* trigger the ZR3.

It'll trigger the 9500i (and other new Escort products, including the ZR4).

And no, if your ZR3 is plugged into a 9500i (or other), it still won't detect the ZR3. The ZR3's just not physically capable of doing it.

----

Originally Posted by Sosticegxp

I just installed my ZR3's on my Solstice GXP - the only place to do so was behind the honeycomb grill. I called Escort and the tech said that is the place for them and it will work fine

Escort's staff have, and I'm really sorry to say this, been rather ignorant about their laser jammers.

As the others here have said, don't trust their word on this, at all.

Do *not* mount behind any such kind of obstruction. Even for the best jammer (of which the ZR3 is decidedly, unfortunately, not) this setup presents a severe handicap (look at results from PMoth's previous LI setup, versus the setup on hockey2005's similar Mitsubishi Evo).

With the ZR3, if you did this, you might as well not have any jammer at all.

I'm glad you decided to relocate your heads.

I have also just purchased VEIL it is on its way...When I put that stuff on my front lights, fogs and indicators and on rear lights and plate does anybody have any info on how well I can expect to be covered?

You should be OK, but I still would not expect JTG/JFG performance.

You should have plenty of time to slow-to-reasonable/slow-to-PSL, particularly if your locals do not engage at less than 800 ft., but above that? It's still a gamble.

I actually have had the Ultralyte try to get me from rear a few times, twice the jammer was on for a long time and the other 3 or 4 times just for a bit...I assume when just for a bit they got punch through and when for a while they had a hard time....just a guess, but does this sound like what is happening?....

It's an impossible call to make.

The problem with the ZR3 is that, as with all Escort products (even the ZR4), it does not offer "real-time" laser detection. Even after the incoming threat has ceased, the detector will *still* continue to report/warn for some time.

This, coupled with the extreme LIDAR sensitivity of the ZR3/4, makes it nearly impossible to tell if the alert you're hearing is due to an actual "now" attack, its residual, or even scatter.

they use these guns for photo Lidar in my home town and my goal is to f*&k em up (JFG) everytime.....

I'm very, very pragmatic - some would say pessimistic - regarding rear-enforcement scenarios.

If you want "true JFG," you reallyl need to invest in the top-of-the-line..... I'd really recommend the LI, and couple that with passive measures, too (i.e. VEIL and LaserShield), given your area's LIDAR-aided photo-enforcement.

Anything else, I think, is just giving you a sense of false-security, which, I honestly believe, is worse than simply having no protection at all.

----

solstice, be realistic in your expectations.

Yes, with the LI and passive measures, it's more than likely that you'll be a "true JTFG" vehicle.

However, to gamble this on the known photo-LIDAR traps in your area? That's just insane.

The cards are always stacked against us - all it takes is just one PT, for whatever random reason (may it be just the alignment of Uranus and the moon), to ruin your day.

Yes, with such a countermeasures compliment, it would be very unlikely for you to see such problems, but do you really want to gamble on that, each and every time you roll through the photo-LIDAR?

The primary use of these devices and measures is to help us get to reasonable/PSL, to open a window of time during which we can take remedial action. It's not to guaranty some kind of sci-fi "cloaking."

To play such odds, in my view, is simply foolish, and as a fellow motorist, I implore you to re-think your end-goal, before you make the considerable investment into these tools, and then discover the same piece of mail served to you.

[ At the same time, we honestly have no data, as a community, as to the effectiveness of these devices versus photo-LIDAR; as a matter of fact, there is even a case brought to-light to us, by interceptor.tw, to show that it is still possible for a LIDAR *mistake* to cause a countermeasures-equipped vehicle/owner to receive such an automated ticket. ]

And if these photo-LIDAR units in your area are manned - your efforts will likely bring you even more trouble, in the form of increased enforcement scrutiny. And believe me, you wouldn't be the first - there are many members here who have been "marked" by their local enforcers..... Look at what happened to erickonphoenix.

Finally, if the photo-LIDARs are stationary, simply get yourself a GPS-based solution (9500ix, ci, Cheetah GPS-Mirror, upload databases into your onboard GPS, carputer/laptop, or even your cell phone), and just take the extra few seconds a day to not speed through them.

[Sosticegxp]

OOPS I meant to write no ZR4's required because they don't use LA Stealth here....curious, what happened to the guy you mentioned regarding increased enforcement scrutiny? I assume they didn't like the fact that he had jammers etc. and harrassed him some....

Thanks for all the info, although I was hoping for better info....I just really wanted to find out there was protection available if I accidentally drive 9,10,11 KMH over the limit past the overzealous lidar operators in our local photo enforcement vehicles, sounds like no such monster exists even though I was told by local dealer it did!!!!

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by Sosticegxp

OOPS I meant to write no ZR4's required because they don't use LA Stealth here....

It's all right. This stuff can be quite confusing, to newcomers.

curious, what happened to the guy you mentioned regarding increased enforcement scrutiny? I assume they didn't like the fact that he had jammers etc. and harrassed him some....

Not really that bad, but they made it known to him that his exploits weren't un-noticed.

Thanks for all the info, although I was hoping for better info....I just really wanted to find out there was protection available if I accidentally drive 9,10,11 KMH over the limit past the overzealous lidar operators in our local photo enforcement vehicles, sounds like no such monster exists even though I was told by local dealer it did!!!!

Oh no, don't get me wrong - that 300-lbs. gorilla does exist. That beast can well be called the LI.

It's proven, time and again, that it can effect "true JTFG" - run after test run.

Your dealer may not have advised you properly, in selecting a "true JTFG" device - the ZR3/4 certainly is not that, not even, consistently, with the help of passive protective measures - but he is correct in thinking that, technologically speaking, such a device does exist.

See, the problem here is not one of the device not being available. It's been, like I said, proven time and again that the LI can be - and is - that beast.

The problem, instead, is one of scenario, and of odds.

You say that you want to jam your locals, each and every time, to-gun.

See, the problem is that can never be fully guaranteed.

Is it possible? Technically and technologically speaking, yes. Look at those various test-runs.

But let's step back to the real-world.

Can you guaranty, every time, that your jammer won't have just an ever so brief and ever so unlikely malfunction? Can you guaranty, each and every time, that there are not going to be unpredictable imperfections in the roadway that may cause your jammer heads go go *severely* out-of-alignment with the LIDAR threat? Can you guaranty, each and every time, that other potential environmental factors aren't going to come into play - i.e. sun-glare/interference? Can you say, without a shadow of doubt, that you're disciplined enough to check your heads' alignment and level, every time you get back into the car, and that you'll clean the heads then, too?

Can you guaranty that each and every one of your real-world runs will, to no great extent, exceed the parameters set under controlled testing?

That's the problem.

Day in, day out, you'll play the odds - in a game where, when it comes down to it, it just takes that one ever-so-unlikely PT to totally ruin your day, and your driving record.

Please understand that this is not the way to view jammer usage - it's not some kind of magical invisibility/invincibility cloak, against LIDAR. Same with the excellent passive countermeasures that we have available today, like VEIL G4.

Yes, it may seem like it from all the testing done, but that's a truly too-idealistic and rather foolhearty way to go about interpreting the data.

Instead, see these devices as tools to buy you the time/distance that you need to get back down to either a "reasonable" speed (where a manned speed-detection/enforcement setup won't "light you up" and give you a citation) or to-PSL (i.e. for an automated/manned photo-LIDAR encounter) - then shut them off so that the enforcer can effect the necessary reading, and they'll be left scratching their heads, and you'll be home free.

Use these jammers for the tools that they are, for the purposes that they're intended.

With your setup, if your locals are using devices for which the ZR3 has tested decently against, given your vehicle and your desire to also include passive countermeasures, as long as they don't engage you from totally unfavorable distances, you should do decently well. On a rear shot, though, with your current setup, I remain *very* skeptical that it'll do you much good (the ZR3/4, although testing decently well for centralized "plate shots" from the rear - where the rear head is mounted - as soon as the shot pans away from the head, PT is much more readily elicited)......