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  1. #11
    Speed Demon
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    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Forum brand x is really getting off on the news of course. Anyone that disagrees with their cheese burger and Hooter's tests is a partisan player to them.

    It costs actual professional testers big money to do tests PROPERLY. Something they have yet to learn.
    What forum would that be Buck???
    The forum you regularly attend and who's members were kicked out of here for not following the site rules whatsoever.

    You know the forum that regularly derides this one.

    I was informed that one of your main main founding members was totally kicked out of HIS OWN FORUM for apparently being a two timing troll and back stabber to his own members and new recruits which really doesn't surprise me some how.

    that forum.

    But you know this already didn't you P/C didn't you?

    When's the last time you ever did any testing Buck? With a group or otherwise? I'd love to see those results be published?

    Just because you believe Carl to be a nice guy doesn't mean he's a good tester....
    It hasn't a thing to do with his niceness whatsoever.

    Strawman argument.

    "when was the last time you did a test?"

    another strawman argument

    Don't need to I have actual professionals that do it for me free of charge.

    well I did but not now

    What it has everything to do with is every major detector buliding company except valentine which chooses NOT to attend cross checking the results of these tests very closely P/C.

    Maybe they all get together and choose the winner every year like the oil companies do to manipulate the price of gas?

    You have actual professionally trained and certified radar operators, a professional testing group that teaches radar courses and advises at radar trials and publishes in police publications, a group of radar detector manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other ON-SITE for the best results possible and a very long wide open road that is MILES and MILES long in the middle of no where.

    what does the other side have?

    School Spirit !

    A bit like your backyard buddies touch football group playing MICHIGAN in the rose bowl.

    Do you have a certificate whatsoever and classroom/open road training in proper traffic radar use ? Do any of you?

    Didn't think so

    There is a very good reason these tests cost so much and if you ever figure that one out get back to me.

    and NO it isn't graft or collusion.

    or maybe it is !

    I see it all now..

    Damn Carl, your not such a nice guy after all are you ?

    I didn't realize till P/C made this all very clear just now that you and the detector manufacturing community and the police are ALL in cahoots with each other !


    where is that damn microwave brain signal detecting proof Reynolds Wrap Hat when you need it ?

    I am transferring our open discussion on such things to the new internet compatible Cone of Silence immediately comrade !
    Last edited by Buckdarma; 10-23-2013 at 10:23 PM.

  2. #12
    Advanced Member
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    Upstate New York where the Stalker Dual is King
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    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Forum brand x is really getting off on the news of course. Anyone that disagrees with their cheese burger and Hooter's tests is a partisan player to them.

    It costs actual professional testers big money to do tests PROPERLY. Something they have yet to learn.
    What forum would that be Buck???
    The forum you regularly attend and who's members were kicked out of here for not following the site rules whatsoever.

    You know the forum that regularly derides this one.

    I was informed that one of your main main founding members was totally kicked out of HIS OWN FORUM for apparently being a two timing troll and back stabber to his own members and new recruits which really doesn't surprise me some how.

    that forum.

    But you know this already didn't you P/C didn't you?

    When's the last time you ever did any testing Buck? With a group or otherwise? I'd love to see those results be published?

    Just because you believe Carl to be a nice guy doesn't mean he's a good tester....
    It hasn't a thing to do with his niceness whatsoever.

    Strawman argument.

    "when was the last time you did a test?"

    another strawman argument

    Don't need to I have actual professionals that do it for me free of charge.

    well I did but not now

    What it has everything to do with is every major detector buliding company except valentine which chooses NOT to attend cross checking the results of these tests very closely P/C.

    Maybe they all get together and choose the winner every year like the oil companies do to manipulate the price of gas?

    You have actual professionally trained and certified radar operators, a professional testing group that teaches radar courses and advises at radar trials and publishes in police publications, a group of radar detector manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other ON-SITE for the best results possible and a very long wide open road that is MILES and MILES long in the middle of no where.

    what does the other side have?

    School Spirit !

    A bit like your backyard buddies touch football group playing MICHIGAN in the rose bowl.

    Do you have a certificate whatsoever and classroom/open road training in proper traffic radar use ? Do any of you?

    Didn't think so

    There is a very good reason these tests cost so much and if you ever figure that one out get back to me.

    and NO it isn't graft or collusion.

    or maybe it is !

    I see it all now..

    Damn Carl, your not such a nice guy after all are you ?

    I didn't realize till P/C made this all very clear just now that you and the detector manufacturing community and the police are ALL in cahoots with each other !


    where is that damn microwave brain signal detecting proof Reynolds Wrap Hat when you need it ?

    I am transferring our open discussion on such things to the new internet compatible Cone of Silence immediately comrade !
    Poor Buck.......what will you do now without SML and their team of paid certified radar experts telling you which detectors are best?

    With them gone we are likely never to see another 15 mile detection or ever see another Escort/Bel detect a 16ms K-Band POP shot. Things that no un-certified backyard tester has EVER been able to replicate.

    Maybe if we learn how to fudge numbers or operate the radar equipment incorrectly we can eventually re-produce the kind of results they have been publishing for years.

    Since you are a big fan, maybe you can explain the K-Band POP results in this SML test. Last time I checked with Escort, NONE of their detectors are capable of detecting K-Band POP.

    Your chances of encountering POP Mode are the same as you driving to the moon? non-existent! This is not an opinion, but a fact. Only three states, Iowa, Oregon, and Nevada ?include POP radar guns on their state contracts. Being on a state contract d

    Maybe there is a good reason they are going out of the detector testing business.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #13
    Speed Demon
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by nine_c1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Forum brand x is really getting off on the news of course. Anyone that disagrees with their cheese burger and Hooter's tests is a partisan player to them.

    It costs actual professional testers big money to do tests PROPERLY. Something they have yet to learn.
    What forum would that be Buck???
    The forum you regularly attend and who's members were kicked out of here for not following the site rules whatsoever.

    You know the forum that regularly derides this one.

    I was informed that one of your main main founding members was totally kicked out of HIS OWN FORUM for apparently being a two timing troll and back stabber to his own members and new recruits which really doesn't surprise me some how.

    that forum.

    But you know this already didn't you P/C didn't you?

    When's the last time you ever did any testing Buck? With a group or otherwise? I'd love to see those results be published?

    Just because you believe Carl to be a nice guy doesn't mean he's a good tester....
    It hasn't a thing to do with his niceness whatsoever.

    Strawman argument.

    "when was the last time you did a test?"

    another strawman argument

    Don't need to I have actual professionals that do it for me free of charge.

    well I did but not now

    What it has everything to do with is every major detector buliding company except valentine which chooses NOT to attend cross checking the results of these tests very closely P/C.

    Maybe they all get together and choose the winner every year like the oil companies do to manipulate the price of gas?

    You have actual professionally trained and certified radar operators, a professional testing group that teaches radar courses and advises at radar trials and publishes in police publications, a group of radar detector manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other ON-SITE for the best results possible and a very long wide open road that is MILES and MILES long in the middle of no where.

    what does the other side have?

    School Spirit !

    A bit like your backyard buddies touch football group playing MICHIGAN in the rose bowl.

    Do you have a certificate whatsoever and classroom/open road training in proper traffic radar use ? Do any of you?

    Didn't think so

    There is a very good reason these tests cost so much and if you ever figure that one out get back to me.

    and NO it isn't graft or collusion.

    or maybe it is !

    I see it all now..

    Damn Carl, your not such a nice guy after all are you ?

    I didn't realize till P/C made this all very clear just now that you and the detector manufacturing community and the police are ALL in cahoots with each other !


    where is that damn microwave brain signal detecting proof Reynolds Wrap Hat when you need it ?

    I am transferring our open discussion on such things to the new internet compatible Cone of Silence immediately comrade !
    Poor Buck.......what will you do now without SML and their team of paid certified radar experts telling you which detectors are best?

    With them gone we are likely never to see another 15 mile detection or ever see another Escort/Bel detect a 16ms K-Band POP shot. Things that no un-certified backyard tester has EVER been able to replicate.

    Maybe if we learn how to fudge numbers or operate the radar equipment incorrectly we can eventually re-produce the kind of results they have been publishing for years.

    Since you are a big fan, maybe you can explain the K-Band POP results in this SML test. Last time I checked with Escort, NONE of their detectors are capable of detecting K-Band POP.

    Your chances of encountering POP Mode are the same as you driving to the moon? non-existent! This is not an opinion, but a fact. Only three states, Iowa, Oregon, and Nevada ?include POP radar guns on their state contracts. Being on a state contract d

    Maybe there is a good reason they are going out of the detector testing business.
    OH, I will survive very well somehow as my life doesn't completely revolve around traffic radar and laser jammers and constantly dodging the law unlike yours apparently. I just don't know who or what you will have to rail against anymore when things just don't go your way.

    then again maybe I do.

    It seems that escort is the new top contender for that title of scapegoat with the max isn't it?

    Unfortunately their marketing promises don't exactly live up to their first models of this detector.

    Unfortunately for them. I don't see users of their product being being papered with tickets because it is so darn bad myself.

    They will adjust it and tinker with it and iron out their mistakes. Lots of new products go through this cycle and turn out very well in the end.

    just to add this.

    The reason you have never been able to do a 15 mile test is pretty obvious isn't it ? Your little group would have to fork up more then fifteen dollars in gas to get you all there and not that it was ever done or even attempted by your group whatsoever.

    That is called a "sin of omission "

  4. #14
    Speed Demon
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Carl made a mistake with the new at the time k-band 16 m pop obviously. I guess the MPH crew wasn't there that day as often is the case with radar manufactures in these tests to correct him.

    POP is a none issue as you well know by now anyway

    that hardly invalidates or makes moot S/S others tests whatsoever

    but it does show how much you cherry pick your arguments.

  5. #15
    Speed Demon
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    770

    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Boy RD.net hasn't had this much use since the great radar detector blow out of 87 ! LOL

  6. #16
    Advanced Member
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    Location
    Upstate New York where the Stalker Dual is King
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    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Carl made a mistake with the new at the time k-band 16 m pop obviously. I guess the MPH crew wasn't there that day as often is the case with radar manufactures in these tests to correct him.
    So Carl and the crew admittedly don't know how to operate their equipment. Big surprise there. In their last outing they had to scrap their 33.8 Ka results because they left the radar bake.....or at least that was their excuse. I'm shocked that such a professional crew of operators don't know how to maintain their equipment properly and keep it running. More likely some subscribers product failed miserably and they didn't want to risk losing their "funding".

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    The reason you have never been able to do a 15 mile test is pretty obvious isn't it ? Your little group would have to fork up more then fifteen dollars in gas to get you all there and not that it was ever done or even attempted by your group whatsoever.
    Hmmm......I never did see a video of that 15 mile test course.......have you? What with $6K to play with you'd think they could afford a camcorder and know how to upload a vid to YouTube.

    Well, I suppose it's all irrelevant if it did or did not happen in that nobody gets burned by radar at 15 miles from hilltop to hilltop anyways. Most of us scofflaws are more concerned with the LEO's hiding in ambush around the next bend or over the next hill.........so that is how we test.

    Yeah, I think times just blew past Carl and SML. People are too smart and no longer rely on sensational reports without some form of evidence to back it up. That thing called YouTube is a powerful tool.
    Last edited by nine_c1; 10-24-2013 at 09:29 AM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #17
    Speed Demon
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by nine_c1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nine_c1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Forum brand x is really getting off on the news of course. Anyone that disagrees with their cheese burger and Hooter's tests is a partisan player to them.

    It costs actual professional testers big money to do tests PROPERLY. Something they have yet to learn.
    What forum would that be Buck???
    The forum you regularly attend and who's members were kicked out of here for not following the site rules whatsoever.

    You know the forum that regularly derides this one.

    I was informed that one of your main main founding members was totally kicked out of HIS OWN FORUM for apparently being a two timing troll and back stabber to his own members and new recruits which really doesn't surprise me some how.

    that forum.

    But you know this already didn't you P/C didn't you?

    When's the last time you ever did any testing Buck? With a group or otherwise? I'd love to see those results be published?

    Just because you believe Carl to be a nice guy doesn't mean he's a good tester....
    It hasn't a thing to do with his niceness whatsoever.

    Strawman argument.

    "when was the last time you did a test?"

    another strawman argument

    Don't need to I have actual professionals that do it for me free of charge.

    well I did but not now

    What it has everything to do with is every major detector buliding company except valentine which chooses NOT to attend cross checking the results of these tests very closely P/C.

    Maybe they all get together and choose the winner every year like the oil companies do to manipulate the price of gas?

    You have actual professionally trained and certified radar operators, a professional testing group that teaches radar courses and advises at radar trials and publishes in police publications, a group of radar detector manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other ON-SITE for the best results possible and a very long wide open road that is MILES and MILES long in the middle of no where.

    what does the other side have?

    School Spirit !

    A bit like your backyard buddies touch football group playing MICHIGAN in the rose bowl.

    Do you have a certificate whatsoever and classroom/open road training in proper traffic radar use ? Do any of you?

    Didn't think so

    There is a very good reason these tests cost so much and if you ever figure that one out get back to me.

    and NO it isn't graft or collusion.

    or maybe it is !

    I see it all now..

    Damn Carl, your not such a nice guy after all are you ?

    I didn't realize till P/C made this all very clear just now that you and the detector manufacturing community and the police are ALL in cahoots with each other !


    where is that damn microwave brain signal detecting proof Reynolds Wrap Hat when you need it ?

    I am transferring our open discussion on such things to the new internet compatible Cone of Silence immediately comrade !
    Poor Buck.......what will you do now without SML and their team of paid certified radar experts telling you which detectors are best?

    With them gone we are likely never to see another 15 mile detection or ever see another Escort/Bel detect a 16ms K-Band POP shot. Things that no un-certified backyard tester has EVER been able to replicate.

    Maybe if we learn how to fudge numbers or operate the radar equipment incorrectly we can eventually re-produce the kind of results they have been publishing for years.

    Since you are a big fan, maybe you can explain the K-Band POP results in this SML test. Last time I checked with Escort, NONE of their detectors are capable of detecting K-Band POP.

    Your chances of encountering POP Mode are the same as you driving to the moon? non-existent! This is not an opinion, but a fact. Only three states, Iowa, Oregon, and Nevada ?include POP radar guns on their state contracts. Being on a state contract d

    Maybe there is a good reason they are going out of the detector testing business.
    OH, I will survive very well somehow as my life doesn't completely revolve around traffic radar and laser jammers and constantly dodging the law unlike yours apparently. I just don't know who or what you will have to rail against anymore when things just don't go your way.

    then again maybe I do.

    It seems that escort is the new top contender for that title of scapegoat with the max isn't it?

    Unfortunately their marketing promises don't exactly live up to their first models of this detector.

    Unfortunately for them. I don't see users of their product being being papered with tickets because it is so darn bad myself.

    They will adjust it and tinker with it and iron out their mistakes. Lots of new products go through this cycle and turn out very well in the end.

    just to add this.

    The reason you have never been able to do a 15 mile test is pretty obvious isn't it ? Your little group would have to fork up more then fifteen dollars in gas to get you all there and not that it was ever done or even attempted by your group whatsoever.

    That is called a "sin of omission "
    So Carl and the crew admittedly don't know how to operate their equipment. Big surprise there. In their last outing they had to scrap their 33.8 Ka results because they left the radar bake.....or at least that was their excuse. I'm shocked that such a professional crew of operators don't know how to maintain their equipment properly and keep it running. More likely some subscribers product failed miserably and they didn't want to risk losing their "funding".

    Hmmm......I never did see a video of that 15 mile test course.......have you? What with $6K to play with you'd think they could afford a camcorder and know how to upload a vid to YouTube.

    Well, I suppose it's all irrelevant if it did or did not happen in that nobody gets burned by radar at 15 miles from hilltop to hilltop anyways. Most of us scofflaws are more concerned with the LEO's hiding in ambush around the next bend or over the next hill.........so that is how we test.

    Yeah, I think times just blew past Carl and SML. People are too smart and no longer rely on sensational reports without some form of evidence to back it up. That thing called YouTube is a powerful tool.
    cherry picking your arguments once again.

    Now you come up with a idea about never seeing the course ? Yes, it was obviously all made up and all the radar manufacturers are in on it too.

    It's a grand conspiracy akin to the Kennedy assassination and you guys are the only ones who know the truth.

  8. #18
    Speed Demon
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by nine_c1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nine_c1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PointerCone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post
    Forum brand x is really getting off on the news of course. Anyone that disagrees with their cheese burger and Hooter's tests is a partisan player to them.

    It costs actual professional testers big money to do tests PROPERLY. Something they have yet to learn.
    What forum would that be Buck???
    The forum you regularly attend and who's members were kicked out of here for not following the site rules whatsoever.

    You know the forum that regularly derides this one.

    I was informed that one of your main main founding members was totally kicked out of HIS OWN FORUM for apparently being a two timing troll and back stabber to his own members and new recruits which really doesn't surprise me some how.

    that forum.

    But you know this already didn't you P/C didn't you?

    When's the last time you ever did any testing Buck? With a group or otherwise? I'd love to see those results be published?

    Just because you believe Carl to be a nice guy doesn't mean he's a good tester....
    It hasn't a thing to do with his niceness whatsoever.

    Strawman argument.

    "when was the last time you did a test?"

    another strawman argument

    Don't need to I have actual professionals that do it for me free of charge.

    well I did but not now

    What it has everything to do with is every major detector buliding company except valentine which chooses NOT to attend cross checking the results of these tests very closely P/C.

    Maybe they all get together and choose the winner every year like the oil companies do to manipulate the price of gas?

    You have actual professionally trained and certified radar operators, a professional testing group that teaches radar courses and advises at radar trials and publishes in police publications, a group of radar detector manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other ON-SITE for the best results possible and a very long wide open road that is MILES and MILES long in the middle of no where.

    what does the other side have?

    School Spirit !

    A bit like your backyard buddies touch football group playing MICHIGAN in the rose bowl.

    Do you have a certificate whatsoever and classroom/open road training in proper traffic radar use ? Do any of you?

    Didn't think so

    There is a very good reason these tests cost so much and if you ever figure that one out get back to me.

    and NO it isn't graft or collusion.

    or maybe it is !

    I see it all now..

    Damn Carl, your not such a nice guy after all are you ?

    I didn't realize till P/C made this all very clear just now that you and the detector manufacturing community and the police are ALL in cahoots with each other !


    where is that damn microwave brain signal detecting proof Reynolds Wrap Hat when you need it ?

    I am transferring our open discussion on such things to the new internet compatible Cone of Silence immediately comrade !
    Poor Buck.......what will you do now without SML and their team of paid certified radar experts telling you which detectors are best?

    With them gone we are likely never to see another 15 mile detection or ever see another Escort/Bel detect a 16ms K-Band POP shot. Things that no un-certified backyard tester has EVER been able to replicate.

    Maybe if we learn how to fudge numbers or operate the radar equipment incorrectly we can eventually re-produce the kind of results they have been publishing for years.

    Since you are a big fan, maybe you can explain the K-Band POP results in this SML test. Last time I checked with Escort, NONE of their detectors are capable of detecting K-Band POP.

    Your chances of encountering POP Mode are the same as you driving to the moon? non-existent! This is not an opinion, but a fact. Only three states, Iowa, Oregon, and Nevada ?include POP radar guns on their state contracts. Being on a state contract d

    Maybe there is a good reason they are going out of the detector testing business.
    OH, I will survive very well somehow as my life doesn't completely revolve around traffic radar and laser jammers and constantly dodging the law unlike yours apparently. I just don't know who or what you will have to rail against anymore when things just don't go your way.

    then again maybe I do.

    It seems that escort is the new top contender for that title of scapegoat with the max isn't it?

    Unfortunately their marketing promises don't exactly live up to their first models of this detector.

    Unfortunately for them. I don't see users of their product being being papered with tickets because it is so darn bad myself.

    They will adjust it and tinker with it and iron out their mistakes. Lots of new products go through this cycle and turn out very well in the end.

    just to add this.

    The reason you have never been able to do a 15 mile test is pretty obvious isn't it ? Your little group would have to fork up more then fifteen dollars in gas to get you all there and not that it was ever done or even attempted by your group whatsoever.

    That is called a "sin of omission "
    So Carl and the crew admittedly don't know how to operate their equipment. Big surprise there. In their last outing they had to scrap their 33.8 Ka results because they left the radar bake.....or at least that was their excuse. I'm shocked that such a professional crew of operators don't know how to maintain their equipment properly and keep it running. More likely some subscribers product failed miserably and they didn't want to risk losing their "funding".

    Hmmm......I never did see a video of that 15 mile test course.......have you? What with $6K to play with you'd think they could afford a camcorder and know how to upload a vid to YouTube.

    Well, I suppose it's all irrelevant if it did or did not happen in that nobody gets burned by radar at 15 miles from hilltop to hilltop anyways. Most of us scofflaws are more concerned with the LEO's hiding in ambush around the next bend or over the next hill.........so that is how we test.

    Yeah, I think times just blew past Carl and SML. People are too smart and no longer rely on sensational reports without some form of evidence to back it up. That thing called YouTube is a powerful tool.
    cherry picking your arguments once again.

    Now you come up with a idea about never seeing the course ? Yes, it was obviously all made up and all the radar manufacturers are in on it too.

    It's a grand conspiracy akin to the Kennedy assassination and you guys are the only ones who know the truth.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post

    cherry picking your arguments once again.

    Now you come up with a idea about never seeing the course ? Yes, it was obviously all made up and all the radar manufacturers are in on it too.

    It's a grand conspiracy akin to the Kennedy assassination and you guys are the only ones who know the truth.
    What can I say.....SML's shoddy test methodology and suspect results is a cherry tree loaded with fruit waiting to be plucked.

    How can you possibly be involved in this hobby as long as you have and not learned anything Buck?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #20
    Speed Demon
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    Default Re: Speedzones no longer doing general RD testing anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by nine_c1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckdarma View Post

    cherry picking your arguments once again.

    Now you come up with a idea about never seeing the course ? Yes, it was obviously all made up and all the radar manufacturers are in on it too.

    It's a grand conspiracy akin to the Kennedy assassination and you guys are the only ones who know the truth.
    What can I say.....SML's shoddy test methodology and suspect results is a cherry tree loaded with fruit waiting to be plucked.

    How can you possibly be involved in this hobby as long as you have and not learned anything Buck?
    well I know enough to trust the guys that design the stuff to be watching each other like hawks at performance tests

    You guys got to let the conspiracies you find hiding around every bush go.

    The max is a good example

    Yes, they promised a lot more then the first models delivered but that will change over time with it's further development

 

 

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