Meaningful Laser Shield tests?

[Aoshi]

I've been looking for ages for some meaningful tests of the Laser Shield. I'm really curious how well it works.

Even the manufacturer has no tests or "expected results", they just state that 98.3% of the laser is diffused.

Now, I've seen a video posted in these forums by a member, but that was a totally pointless test as the shield was on an actual vehicle, and at the distances shown the laser would easily be big enough to reflect off the headlamps.

So, I was curious if someone here with access to both a Laser Shield and a LIDAR gun of some sort would please place a license plate against a brick wall and measure the distance you can hit the plate and still get a reading, then do the same with the laser shield on.... Unless of course someone can point me to some real *meaningful* tests on the shield by itself!

I know some people point to the reflectivity of the plate as seen with a flash camera at night.. an interesting idea, though not very scientific..

I did some quick tests reflecting a laser pen off the license plate onto a wall and measuring the distance / spread of the beam on the wall, then applied the laser shield and was very surprised to see the reflected beam was almost indistinguishable at anything less than a few inches from the wall! (I could easily make it out several feet from the wall without the shield).

Thanks guys, looking forward to your comments / test.

[IXLR8]

I'll have my new Laser Shield at CFL #6 (if weather doesn't wash us out!). Maybe we can do something there.

I haven't put it on yet, and probably wont have time before, so would be good opportunity.

[Lucky225]

The patent for the T3(I think that's what it's called, can't even remember) had some tests from car and driver, but it's such an old patent and I think it was tested against an LTI 20/20

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by Aoshi

So, I was curious if someone here with access to both a Laser Shield and a LIDAR gun of some sort would please place a license plate against a brick wall and measure the distance you can hit the plate and still get a reading, then do the same with the laser shield on....

A part of the problem with this scenario is the wall itself - as the LIDAR beam spreads, at-distance.

Additionally, without some kind of "motion," police LIDARs may not function properly. alpinestars, when he first got his LIs, mounted them to his car, and then was surprised that with the car parked, but the LIs engaged, he could get distance readings on the car quite easily.

Throw active motion into the mix, though, and it was easily and truly JTG.

With the LaserShield, don't think of it as anything more than it really is.

It's just a method to decrease LIDAR reflection from only the area that it's covering.

Imagine holding a shield to your body, facing a storm of arrows.

The shield will protect anything that's behind it -

But the arrows are still going to hit the areas that's not, and cause severe injury.

Same idea here.

It's simply to address one SPECIFIC weak point - just like VEIL.

To work to its utmost effectiveness, it needs synergy.

At-distance, the LIDAR beam will quickly diverge so much that it'll easily cover a much greater area than the LaserShield, over the front license plate, can protect - and that's where you're going to suffer punch-throughs, if those other areas are not protected by either additional passive measures, or an active jammer.



It's "point protection," nothing more, nothing less.

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Note:

A couple of community members in the past (i.e. LittleOverPSL and the infamous noory come to mind, immediately) have used the "doppler feedback" function on some LIDAR guns to "look at" the intensity of the LIDAR return signal, on various setups, such as with LaserShield, with 3M Clear Duct Tape dressing, as well as with VEIL dressing and with replica (non-metallic) plates. Although not "conclusive" data, all did demonstrate noticeable audible signal variations between such "countermeasured" plates versus an unprotected, unmodified, metallic state-issue plate.

To me, this is proof enough that the LaserShield does what it's advertised to do - to cut-down on LIDAR return.

However, it does *NOT* mean that it somehow magically cloaks your entire car.

This is proven by videos from Tactical22, who claimed that the LaserShield, outright, does not work.

I don't believe that to be the case, as I truly think that in his videos, what he's truly proving is simply that the LaserShield covers only the area that it covers - nothing more.

Remember - "point defense."

[thestaton]

Veil Guy & I did a test a while ago. I'll see if I can find the video. The laser shield helps, but it's got nothing on VEIL.

[Aoshi]

No where in here did I assume that it was the ultimate solution.. In fact I was very skeptical that it had any impact at all and the many discussions on it were all over there places.. it just seems no one can really agree how effective it is.

The real question I want answered here is this: assuming all other reflective points on my car are well addressed (and they are) I want to know what a laser shielded license plate would do vs. no plate at all.

I'm aware no plate is obviously better, but it is illegal here (and the plate distracts the eyes from the STI-r remote hidden in the grill below it.)

As for the moving part, I was under the impression all LIDAR guns also doubled as a distance measuring device. Perhaps this is a feature reserved for certain models?

The problem with most of these tests (including the videos here) is that you don't know FOR SURE what the weak point was. Was it the veiled lights? Was it the antenna? was it just a good reflection from the car? That's why I'm asking if anyone has made any Laser Shield ONLY tests - or at the very least a car with the headlights blacked out or otherwise covered.

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by Aoshi

No where in here did I assume that it was the ultimate solution.. In fact I was very skeptical that it had any impact at all and the many discussions on it were all over there places.. it just seems no one can really agree how effective it is.

Oh no, I agree - I did think I read your question correctly, and I apologize if my reply came off "reading" wrongly, as that was not my intent.

The real question I want answered here is this: assuming all other reflective points on my car are well addressed (and they are) I want to know what a laser shielded license plate would do vs. no plate at all.

I think logic easily dictates the results of this scenario:

At any point where the LIDAR's beam is solely on the plate - that's gonna be trouble right there.

At any point where the divergence of the beam covers some area of the unprotected plate, again, it's going to be less-than-ideal.

Exactly how much protection is conferred with a "dressed" plate - and do the various means of "dressing" confer more or less protection?

I truly don't know, and I would think, also, that the results would be highly variable - not just between different methods of "dressing" the plate, but between unique setups (i.e. vehicle, encounter circumstance, type of hardware used, etc), overall.

I'm aware no plate is obviously better, but it is illegal here (and the plate distracts the eyes from the STI-r remote hidden in the grill below it.)

Same here with me, I also live in an area where the front-plate law is enforced.

And yes, I also serve mine up as "bait."

As for the moving part, I was under the impression all LIDAR guns also doubled as a distance measuring device. Perhaps this is a feature reserved for certain models?

I am not familiar with enough of the different ones to know, for certain, that it is across-the-board, but yes, for several, this is indeed the case.

The problem with most of these tests (including the videos here) is that you don't know FOR SURE what the weak point was. Was it the veiled lights? Was it the antenna? was it just a good reflection from the car?

Precisely my point above, too.

That's why I'm asking if anyone has made any Laser Shield ONLY tests - or at the very least a car with the headlights blacked out or otherwise covered.

I think that to control for the other confounding factors is very difficult. There's just so many different "potentials" to cover.....

It certainly would be interesting, though.

[Aoshi]

I really don't see it as a difficult thing to test. When they do Veil tests they (usually) use a black or dark car with no plate. What I'm asking is, can someone please provide the same type of testing on a Laser Shield.

I notice even RadarRoy gives the Laser Shield 4 stars but I can't for the life of me find any *meaningful* test results!

Same goes for all of these License plate countermeasures. Whether it's a fake plate, veil on the plate or the laser shield no one seems all that interested in posting *meaningful* results. I'm very dissapointed that even the manufacturer of Laser Shield hasn't done this!

So please, to anyone out there with access to a LIDAR gun and some spare time, could you please try any of my test suggestions (or come up with your own) and lets get some real results on how effective the misc. LP countermeasures are! - In other words, assume nothing else but the plate is reflective on the entire vehicle... how much time / distance do these things buy?

Thanks everyone for your input thus far!

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by Aoshi

I really don't see it as a difficult thing to test. When they do Veil tests they (usually) use a black or dark car with no plate. What I'm asking is, can someone please provide the same type of testing on a Laser Shield.

That's a good point.

I notice even RadarRoy gives the Laser Shield 4 stars but I can't for the life of me find any *meaningful* test results!

Same goes for all of these License plate countermeasures. Whether it's a fake plate, veil on the plate or the laser shield no one seems all that interested in posting *meaningful* results. I'm very dissapointed that even the manufacturer of Laser Shield hasn't done this!

So please, to anyone out there with access to a LIDAR gun and some spare time, could you please try any of my test suggestions (or come up with your own) and lets get some real results on how effective the misc. LP countermeasures are! - In other words, assume nothing else but the plate is reflective on the entire vehicle... how much time / distance do these things buy?

^ But that's the part that I think is difficult - to assume that nothing else but the plate is reflective.

Can some controls be done - i.e. dark car, same car, with same "dressed" hardpoints, etc. - yes, I do think that's a viable testing scenario.

But at the same time, I think that to really quantitate results, I am not sure that will be entirely possible.

While it may be possible to say that from X distance away, certain plate dressings may offer Y time protective performance versus Z gun, I am not sure how that exactly translates to a real-world scenario, where engagement distances can well come in *under* the potential protective distance...that's hard to judge.

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And please don't read any of the above the wrong way - I'd be more than interested to, as you, see some hard data on this.

[Lucky225]

Originally Posted by Aoshi

I'm aware no plate is obviously better, but it is illegal here (and the plate distracts the eyes from the STI-r remote hidden in the grill below it.)

Where is "here", if you don't mind me asking?