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  1. #1
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    Default Belscort POP detection.

    I've read a lot of speculation in the forum here that Belscort is running the 33.800 GHZ frequency as a "priority channel" of sorts. I've been able to prove, to my own satisfaction at least, that this is not the case. On two separate occasions now, I have had the detector alert to POP from Stalker radar systems at around 35GHz. These were usually cases where either the signal was already detected and rapidly getting stronger, or just barely out of range. So apparently Bel/Escort is scanning the whole Ka band for the quick pulses, not just the 33.800 part.

    So, to Belscort employees reading the forum-
    Why not give users the option to select, in the menu, which parts of the Ka band are scanned for POP bursts? I suspect that this would cut the POP falsing down tremendously. Maybe do it like the Ka scanning on the 975R, where the Ka band is broken up into 4 sections, and the user can select which section is scanned for POP, and which sections needs to recieve slightly longer pulses before alerting.

    Professor Jim- do you see any problems with this plan? Think it would be do-able?

  2. #2
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    POP can be done in K or Ka band.....And MPH industries has the perfect POP gun it doesn't alert any detector with POP. cause it uses a 16ms burst instead of 67ms burst

    Editted: typo fixed

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    Radar Detectors-V1 & BEL v995
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyVOLVOrob
    POP can be done in K or Ka band.....And MPH industries has the perfect POP gun it doesn't alert any detector with POP. cause it uses a 6ms burst instead of 67ms burst
    The POP mode on the K-Band Z35 is 16ms, not 6. I realize that the entire K-Band would still need to be scanned for POP transmissions, but the only POP that i'm aware of on Ka band is at 33.800 Ghz. Therefore, at least for the time being, we would not need to scan the entire Ka band for POP transmissions.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by compu44
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyVOLVOrob
    POP can be done in K or Ka band.....And MPH industries has the perfect POP gun it doesn't alert any detector with POP. cause it uses a 6ms burst instead of 67ms burst
    The POP mode on the K-Band Z35 is 16ms, not 6. I
    i fixed my typo

    Spoiler: show

    Radar Detectors-V1 & BEL v995
    Laser Jammer-Laser Interceptor Quad
    GPS Camera Locator-Cheetah C100
    GPS Nav-Garmin nuvi w/Trapster
    CB Radio-Galaxy DX-949 w/Wilson 500
    Scanner-RS Pro-96

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyVOLVOrob
    POP can be done in K or Ka band.....And MPH industries has the perfect POP gun it doesn't alert any detector with POP. cause it uses a 16ms burst instead of 67ms burst

    Editted: typo fixed
    Keep in mind that the V1 I tested was a V1.7 w/o POP, not the V1.8. The new V1.8 w/POP2 is coming this weekend and I'll test it. Mike V said that his detector would probably detect a Z POP(16ms) at the most 10 to 20% of the time.

    Here is the big question. Who has ever run into a POP gun? POP is limited in its use. It can only be used in a stationary position and it can't really be used on a highway with alot of cars side by side because POP mode doesn't have "faster car tracking."

    If I was a cop I'd pick laser any day.

    Chris

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by compu44
    I've read a lot of speculation in the forum here that Belscort is running the 33.800 GHZ frequency as a "priority channel" of sorts. I've been able to prove, to my own satisfaction at least, that this is not the case. On two separate occasions now, I have had the detector alert to POP from Stalker radar systems at around 35GHz. These were usually cases where either the signal was already detected and rapidly getting stronger, or just barely out of range. So apparently Bel/Escort is scanning the whole Ka band for the quick pulses, not just the 33.800 part.
    Although you get POP alerts in conjunction with getting regular alerts from the Stalker at around 35 GHz, I don't think that they are alerting to POP from quick signals throughout the Ka band. In order to detect POP with any degree of accuracy, they would need to sweep any POP frequencies at a rate quicker than the BEE III 67ms pop burst. The Ka band is 2.6 GHz wide, and I can pretty much guarantee that they're not sweeping the whole Ka band that fast, and are indeed hitting the BEE III's 33.8 frequency in a "priority sweep" faster than 67ms.

    Consider this: if they could sweep the entire 2.6 GHz Ka band in less than 67ms, then they should be able to sweep the K band, which is only 200 MHz wide (1/13 the size), faster than the 16ms burst from a for Z-series POP gun and should have no trouble at all detecting the Z-series POP. However, as JTW's videos have shown, this is in fact NOT the case.

    As to why you get the POP alerts in conjunction with the Stalker, it could be weak reflections, noise, or products from the mixer that somehow also fall in the BEE III 33.8 GHz area.

    Quote Originally Posted by compu44
    So, to Belscort employees reading the forum-
    Why not give users the option to select, in the menu, which parts of the Ka band are scanned for POP bursts? I suspect that this would cut the POP falsing down tremendously. Maybe do it like the Ka scanning on the 975R, where the Ka band is broken up into 4 sections, and the user can select which section is scanned for POP, and which sections needs to recieve slightly longer pulses before alerting.

    Professor Jim- do you see any problems with this plan? Think it would be do-able?
    Definitely a good idea IMHO. Selectively sweeping only different parts of the Ka band IS do-able, and could definitely have advantages not related to POP falsing. Sweeping only the frequencies of interest will do a couple of things: it would cut down on falses from other detectors that make it through the filtering, and it actually allows the frequencies of interest to be swept -slower- and be examined for a longer time period. Examining them longer actually has the effect of increasing sensitivity on those frequencies. BEL kind of does this already with the USA vs International settings. I know in the past that I and many others in the forum have recommended running the RX-65 in INTERNATIONAL mode, where it sweeps the entire Ka band instead of the USA mode which only sweeps the 3 main frequency areas for guns used in the US. But IMHO this should be re-examined. The only place that I have seen direct mention of radar guns that are not on the 3 main frequency areas is on copradar.com, where they mention a Stalker gun possibly on 34.94 GHz and a Stalker that can "frequency hop". I have also seen it mentioned that Stalkers "can be licensed on any frequency between 34.2 and 35.2". However, I have yet to see any independent verification that ANY Stalker gun exists that is not on 34.7 GHz, which is smack dab in the middle of that 34.2-35.2 range. If these other frequencies are not even a threat, then RX-65 users could actually be shooting themselves in the foot regarding Ka falsing and sensitivity by setting it to "International" mode instead of "USA".

    Could someone who is "in the business" contact Stalker and see if they even offer a gun that isn't on 34.7 GHz?

    Jim

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbonzzz
    Quote Originally Posted by compu44
    I've read a lot of speculation in the forum here that Belscort is running the 33.800 GHZ frequency as a "priority channel" of sorts. I've been able to prove, to my own satisfaction at least, that this is not the case. On two separate occasions now, I have had the detector alert to POP from Stalker radar systems at around 35GHz. These were usually cases where either the signal was already detected and rapidly getting stronger, or just barely out of range. So apparently Bel/Escort is scanning the whole Ka band for the quick pulses, not just the 33.800 part.
    Although you get POP alerts in conjunction with getting regular alerts from the Stalker at around 35 GHz, I don't think that they are alerting to POP from quick signals throughout the Ka band. In order to detect POP with any degree of accuracy, they would need to sweep any POP frequencies at a rate quicker than the BEE III 67ms pop burst. The Ka band is 2.6 GHz wide, and I can pretty much guarantee that they're not sweeping the whole Ka band that fast, and are indeed hitting the BEE III's 33.8 frequency in a "priority sweep" faster than 67ms.

    Consider this: if they could sweep the entire 2.6 GHz Ka band in less than 67ms, then they should be able to sweep the K band, which is only 200 MHz wide (1/13 the size), faster than the 16ms burst from a for Z-series POP gun and should have no trouble at all detecting the Z-series POP. However, as JTW's videos have shown, this is in fact NOT the case.

    As to why you get the POP alerts in conjunction with the Stalker, it could be weak reflections, noise, or products from the mixer that somehow also fall in the BEE III 33.8 GHz area.

    Quote Originally Posted by compu44
    So, to Belscort employees reading the forum-
    Why not give users the option to select, in the menu, which parts of the Ka band are scanned for POP bursts? I suspect that this would cut the POP falsing down tremendously. Maybe do it like the Ka scanning on the 975R, where the Ka band is broken up into 4 sections, and the user can select which section is scanned for POP, and which sections needs to recieve slightly longer pulses before alerting.

    Professor Jim- do you see any problems with this plan? Think it would be do-able?
    Definitely a good idea IMHO. Selectively sweeping only different parts of the Ka band IS do-able, and could definitely have advantages not related to POP falsing. Sweeping only the frequencies of interest will do a couple of things: it would cut down on falses from other detectors that make it through the filtering, and it actually allows the frequencies of interest to be swept -slower- and be examined for a longer time period. Examining them longer actually has the effect of increasing sensitivity on those frequencies. BEL kind of does this already with the USA vs International settings. I know in the past that I and many others in the forum have recommended running the RX-65 in INTERNATIONAL mode, where it sweeps the entire Ka band instead of the USA mode which only sweeps the 3 main frequency areas for guns used in the US. But IMHO this should be re-examined. The only place that I have seen direct mention of radar guns that are not on the 3 main frequency areas is on copradar.com, where they mention a Stalker gun possibly on 34.94 GHz and a Stalker that can "frequency hop". I have also seen it mentioned that Stalkers "can be licensed on any frequency between 34.2 and 35.2". However, I have yet to see any independent verification that ANY Stalker gun exists that is not on 34.7 GHz, which is smack dab in the middle of that 34.2-35.2 range. If these other frequencies are not even a threat, then RX-65 users could actually be shooting themselves in the foot regarding Ka falsing and sensitivity by setting it to "International" mode instead of "USA".

    Could someone who is "in the business" contact Stalker and see if they even offer a gun that isn't on 34.7 GHz?

    Jim
    Jim, I talked with Stalker about a year and a half ago about the frequency hoppers and they told me they didn't make them anymore.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JammerTests Webmaster
    Jim, I talked with Stalker
    What did they have to say?
    (Looks like your post maybe got cut off??)

  9. #9
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    I was cut off. I talked with Stalker 1.5 year ago about these freq hopper radar guns. The rep sounded confused when I asked him about it and after I talked with him a little more he said Stalker stopped making those a long time ago.

    Chris

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbonzzz

    Definitely a good idea IMHO. Selectively sweeping only different parts of the Ka band IS do-able, and could definitely have advantages not related to POP falsing. Sweeping only the frequencies of interest will do a couple of things: it would cut down on falses from other detectors that make it through the filtering, and it actually allows the frequencies of interest to be swept -slower- and be examined for a longer time period. Examining them longer actually has the effect of increasing sensitivity on those frequencies.
    Jim
    And not JUST for POP as well. Photo radar requires very high sensitivity as well, especially on 34.3Ghz (+/- .100). Being able to "focus" on a particular frequency(ies) would be great. Apparently the newest V1 EUR mode does this, but then you still don't get to "select" your frequencies, it is either 34.3 and nothing else, or complete KA scan. You don't get to say "I want 34.3 and 38.2" or whatever the guns are most frequently on.

    ACTUALLY, my Bel 990i International has this function. Except by now, the X50 is more sensitive than it. But if you look at things, it seems as if we are going BACKWARDS in terms of functionality. My years old 990i had more settings and configuation options than the newest X50/Rx65s. Plus, by setting the detector to only scan K, 34.3KA, and that is it, false alerts were... well... never had any except maybe a couple times in YEARS.

    Are the manufacturers "dumbing down" the detectors for the "common" man? Perhaps they think that these frequency settings will confuse joe blow or something?

 

 

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