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  1. #1
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    Default Blind Spot/Lane Departure Warning Systems emitting Ka?

    Over the last 2 weeks or so, I found myself trailing behind a new Lexus LX 570 SUV on my commute home. Every time we went around a curve, my 9500i went off for Ka - which in NJ almost always signals a real threat. Went on and off, on and off, on and off - until that Lexus turned off. Then it stopped. Few days later, I'm behind a new BMW 750iL. Same thing, Ka warnings on and off for miles. Both incidents were driving me nuts looking and looking for the LEO, only to never spot one. I'm guessing both these vehicles have some sort of blind spot or lane departure warning system. But they use Ka???? Anyone know anything about this? If true, and more and more cars start including this feature, it's going to create "falses" like crazy, kinda nullifying what I enjoy about my 9500i the most.

  2. #2
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    There are three possibilities IMO:

    1. It was the blind spot radar like you were saying, although I have no knowledge what frequency these are.
    2. They had leaky detectors (Cobra'd)
    3. There was a LEO using IO somewhere in your area.

  3. #3
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    Option #3 you suggest seems unlikely as the warnings disappeared when the vehicles turned off and weren't in front of me any longer and option #2 would seem an unlikely coincidence (perhaps).

  4. #4
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    The Audi vehicles' are on 24 GHz - K-band frequency, and will present with *strong* falses. Look at past posts by The Veil Guy detailing this concern (more info. is available in his Blogs).

    I also recently received *strong* Ka-band falsing from both high-end Mercedes vehicles as well as Lexus vehicles, both when I was "alongside" them. I do not know if their devices have gone into those frequencies, or if my proximity caused saturation or some other weird effect, thus tripping off Ka-alert (near full-scale) on my 9500i.

  5. #5
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    Found this on Lexus LX 570 Website:

    Pre-Collision System (PCS)
    PCS [1] uses millimeter-wave radar projected from the front of the vehicle to determine when a frontal collision is unavoidable.

  6. #6
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    Just found this:

    Valeo Raytheon Blind Spot Detection System Receives 2007 PACE Award - Auto News from April 17, 2007
    PARIS, France, April 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Valeo Raytheon Systems, a joint venture between Valeo and Raytheon Company, has received the prestigious automotive industry 2007 PACE Award in the product innovation category for its Blind Spot Detection System. The award, co-sponsored by Automotive News, Microsoft, SAP and the Transportation Research Center (TRC), was presented to Valeo at a ceremony held in conjunction with the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress in Detroit.

    "We are honored to receive this prestigious award recognizing that Valeo's Blind Spot Detection system has made a significant impact in improving vehicle safety," said Thierry Morin, Valeo Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. "The Blind Spot Detection system is one of our Driving Assistance technologies to provide 360-degree surveillance of the vehicle's immediate environment."

    "We are excited about the PACE committee's recognition of our efforts as well as the positive response of the joint venture's customers around the world," said Mark E. Russell, Vice President, Raytheon Company.

    The system continuously monitors the rear blind spots on both sides of the vehicle. When a vehicle is present in either blind spot, the driver is alerted to this potential hazard by a visible icon displayed in the side view mirror. By using multiple narrow beams of radar to recognize objects in the blind spot, the system allows for unprecedented accuracy in determining the position and distance of the object as well as its relative speed and direction of travel. Blind spot detection sensor technology works in all weather conditions and is invisible. Sensors are located on each side of the vehicle, behind the rear plastic bumper. The system is expected to contribute to reducing collisions with unseen vehicles during lane change maneuvers.

    Vehicles equipped with this system will be available in North America and Europe during 2007.

    The 2007 PACE Award is Valeo's third consecutive PACE Award. Valeo also received PACE Awards in 2006 for the StARS micro-hybrid system and in 2005 for the LaneVue(TM) system.

    Valeo is an independent industrial group dedicated to the design, production and sale of components, integrated systems and modules for cars and trucks. It is one of the world's leading automotive suppliers. The Group has 129 production sites, 68 R&D centers, 9 distribution platforms, and employs 69,800 people in 29 countries worldwide.

    And this from another website:

    Valeo's automotive engineers have joined forces with aerospace expert Raytheon to draw on the short-range radar expertise of Valeo and the in-depth knowledge of radar systems from Raytheon. The outcome of this joint effort is a radar-based Blind Spot Detection system comprised of one sensor on each side of the vehicle, both continuously monitoring the lateral area alongside and to the rear of the vehicle. With their unique design providing a 150-degree broad field of view, the sensors have a range of between 0.5 and 40 meters.

    The radar is a multi-beam system operating in a narrow bandwidth around 24GHz. By using several beams to recognize objects in the blind spot, the system allows for unprecedented accuracy in determining the position and distance of the object as well as its relative speed. Blind spot detection sensor technology works in all weather conditions and is easy to accommodate on a vehicle, fitting neatly on the side of the vehicle, behind the rear plastic bumper.

  7. #7
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    So... is this K or Ka band?

    A compact 24 GHz radar sensor for vehicle sideway-looking applications
    Tan-Hsiung Ho; Shyh-Jong Chung
    Radar Conference, 2005. EURAD 2005. European
    Volume , Issue , 6-7 Oct. 2005 Page(s): 351 - 354
    Digital Object Identifier 10.1109/EURAD.2005.1605636
    Summary: A compact 24 GHz short range radar sensor for sideway-looking applications is designed within a dimension of 60 /spl times/ 45 /spl times/ 30 mm/sub 3/. This dimension is acceptable to be integrated into the right/left mirror of a small automobile. The measurement result of the radar RF circuits shows a maximal output power of 5 dBm and phase noise better than -80 dBc/Hz within the whole operation frequency from 24 to 24.25 GHz. The integrated sensor together with the DSP gives a detection range of 15 meters with distance and speed resolution of 0.75 meter and 2.5 km/hr respectively.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSi+WRX
    The Audi vehicles' are on 24 GHz - K-band frequency, and will present with *strong* falses. Look at past posts by The Veil Guy detailing this concern (more info. is available in his Blogs).

    I also recently received *strong* Ka-band falsing from both high-end Mercedes vehicles as well as Lexus vehicles, both when I was "alongside" them. I do not know if their devices have gone into those frequencies, or if my proximity caused saturation or some other weird effect, thus tripping off Ka-alert (near full-scale) on my 9500i.
    If this is coming from LS460s that is the Lane Departure warning / Blind Spot radar. This option was not offered on the LS430s (2006 and older).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOC
    So... is this K or Ka band?

    A compact 24 GHz radar sensor for vehicle sideway-looking applications
    If you'll again read my post above, you'll see that it's K-band.

    And yes, this has been verified - again, please reference The Veil Guy's old posts about this (dates back perhaps 9 months).

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Loiosh
    If this is coming from LS460s that is the Lane Departure warning / Blind Spot radar. This option was not offered on the LS430s (2006 and older).
    Thank you for the tip!

    I honestly do not know the specific model number. ops: I will try to pay more attention to this the next time this kind of falsing occurs.

  10. #10
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    Luckily all those features are optional so you won't find them on ALL LS460s. If I remember correctly:
    The Pre-Collision system includes the radar-based CC package. They are optional on all LS460s.

    Ah, I just got a correction. The Lane Departure warning is camera-based. So that is not setting off the radar detectors. It must be the automatic CC. I'm curious to know if it is always broadcasting or only active when CC is on.

 

 

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