2008 Laser Test & LI?

[crazyVOLVOrob]

Originally Posted by noTe

I was at the test on one of the days and the LI guys had no part in the test except providing some of the laser guns.

People always want to speculate why the top jammer came out on top

Honestly looking at GOL results of the LI they are very similar to what I have seen with my own 2 eyes at the CT test and from observing the results of others who tested their retail LI's

A big part was that the jammers were bought rather than just provided by the manufacturer.

[Stealth Stalker]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

And to be fair, I also think it's worth mentioning that the animosity between The Goons (aka The Four Horsemen) and the GOL far pre-dates the LI being in the picture.

Really? Interesting. They seem to make such a big deal of the Elvis connexion, despite the fact that Elvis has been out of the picture for a good while. I just don't get where they get off trying to exploit that connexion when their connexion to the Lager Tar is so transparent. It's the old pot vs. kettle thing.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Yep, the history goes far, far, far back.

Stealth, if you truly want to get into this debate, you *have* to know the history, you'll *have* to educate yourself on the back-plot.

Dig back, far, far, far into the dark corners of the past posts that's been archived in the "Laser Jammer" sub-Forum.

You'll find all that you need.

Trust me, exploiting "the Elvis connection" is just that - The Goons saw a weakness in the armor, and dug the point of their sword into it.

Look at the past posts. JTW and Audi Quattro, among others, those are the names to watch.

Then, if you want some more back-plot, go over to the Laser Pro Park Support Forums, and dig up LPP ver Ghost Recon's past posts. And then go over to the RadarReviews Forum, and dig for The Stig and cross reference The Goons.

I only became active in this community towards the later half of 2006, out of my own need to update my laser jammer arsenal. Prior to that, I simply lurked occasionally, and thus missed a lot of the infighting and drama.

When I entered the community, thus, I thought that I'd give Audi Quattro, specifically, a second chance - I knew the backdrop stories, but I thought "what the hell, he deserves to prove himself to me, one way or the other," as, in real-life, I'm the type who do give second, and often, third, chances.

Yeah. Big mistake. No, he didn't hurt me - I'm, I'd like to think, old enough and smart enough to know better.

But he did, without a shadow of doubt to my mind, go behind the back of several of his then-"friends." Yes, much of this is behinds the scene stuff, but I'll give you one SOLID and UNDEINABLE example:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/405777-post10.html

Trust me - if you want to get into this debate, of whether or not the GOL is to be trusted, based on the words of any of The Goons (those of the laserjammertests site), you *need* to educate yourself on the backdrop. Otherwise, you're just going off half-cocked, and you will run the risk of making yourself look rather ridiculous.

^ Don't read those words wrongly, please. It's truly friendly advice, given with the best intent.

[Stealth Stalker]

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

^ Don't read those words wrongly, please. It's truly friendly advice, given with the best intent.

No worries, Bro. I understand. I don't know enough about either of them to take sides, and really have no interest in doing so. It is obvious that both have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar, so to speak, at one time or another. And both have engaged in some pretty immature behaviour throughout the whole feud, making it hard to take either one seriously. But the past is the past, and it only serves to remind us to keep our eyes open to the present.

Anyhow, I wasn't disparaging Elvis, as I wasn't even around during all of that. I was merely pointing out that he was the specific target of much of the criticism and, guilty or not, now that he's out of the picture, it should all be irrelevant.

[jimbonzzz]

Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

It is obvious that both have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar, so to speak, at one time or another.

I'm not trying to start anything here, but I am curious about why you think GOL has ever been caught with their "hand in the cookie jar", especially since we've never taken any cookies in the first place

[Stealth Stalker]

Originally Posted by jimbonzzz

I'm not trying to start anything here, but I am curious about why you think GOL has ever been caught with their "hand in the cookie jar", especially since we've never taken any cookies in the first place

It's just a reference to the whole Elvis thing in general. Does it mean anything? Probably not. But when a key member is selling a tested device, it undeniably lends the appearance of impropriety. There's no getting around that appearance, even if it is ultimately meaningless.

[TSi+WRX]

The "problem" with Elvis - and I hate to use that word (see my personal opinion of him, below), but it's only in reference to this particular situation - is that he left a hole through which detractors of the GOL was able to exploit.

It's a "guilty by association" scenario that, really, under logical examination, simply doesn't stand up.

The Goons used that as a springboard to launch into their smear campagin about the fact that the GOL tested a pre-production LI, with two emitter diodes instead of "just" the one in the production model, and tried to tie all of that into a sensationalized conspiracy theory that would, it was their hope, take you away from their then percieved main source of market competition - the LI.

The truth of the matter was that it was clearly cited on the GOL website that the LI was a pre-production model. Yes, they were over-eager, and tested the LI and disclosed results in a manner which made them the target of assaults - but you'll see that this year, they took precautions against that. Lesson learned.

Similarly, the truth of the matter was that neither the GOL nor LI attempted to hide from the community that their then-tested unit, in the 2007 Shootout, had dual emitters. This change from the double to single emitter laser diode was something that had been a point of many discussions in the community, at that time - which well pre-dated the LI even having physically landed here in the US, for sale. And not only was this news known here, but I know that once I learned of this, I informed all of my various automotive-enthusiast community of this concern.

How do I remember it so well?

Because I was among those who - while understanding *why* this change occurred - still lamented it, and made my disappointment known publically. And because I was also among those who were most vocal about the disappointment of the LI's then continuing march "up" the pricing scale, too.

To me, no, the GOL has never had its hand in any "cookie jars."

Honestly, to continue to think so, based on what The Goons brought forward as counterpoints is to be basing your entire outlook on false information.

At times immature? Maybe. But I can assure you that if you looked at the past posts, you'll see why some members of the GOL may, at one time or another, have fallen to such lows of behavior - they were clearly prodded and pushed beyond their limits, and I honestly can't blame them.

But don't carry any illusions - do the research, and you'll find that the problem lies solely upon the shoulders of The Goons[/b].

---

And as for Elvis?

I truly think that he was a victim of circumstance.

In my interactions with him, both in the purchase of my LI units (both stemming from a time before Cliff was declared official, and when Elvis was the authorized Stateside LI reseller) and otherwise, I've always found him to be good to his word.

Yes, his business practice was outdated - a cash deal, with a lot of winks and hints. But just as with the old-school crew, he always honored his word.

Did this maybe make some people uneasy? Certainly. Did this make me hesitant to recommend the LI to my friends, back then? Yes.

But all that said, no, Elvis never recanted on his words - he's not some sort of demon, and I don't understand why he's even being maligned in this thread.

Did it take Cliff's arrival, to finally "take care of business" here, in North America, for LI? Yes, it did, and I'm glad - so glad - that he's here. His business practice is many times better than that of Elvis's, and it's a total night-and-day turn-around for LI's image here. He's what LI always needed here, Stateside. No doubt.

But Elvis simply made some business mistakes here, that's all. And it was, unfortunately, his connection to Roy as well as having simply been physically present at the 2007 GOL testing that caused him to be interjected into this mess as some sort of scapegoat.

Again, trust me, if you want to pursue this line of thought - that, somehow, the GOL shouldn't be trusted because of some mythical and ill-backed statements from their detractors, I *highly* encourage you to dig to the depths of this Forum's past, and figure out the characters at-play, and what each have done in their past.

[i]You'll quickly see that not only is the GOL's credibility untarnished, but that any mud thrown comes from the most despised within our community.

[TSi+WRX]

Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

It's just a reference to the whole Elvis thing in general. Does it mean anything? Probably not. But when a key member is selling a tested device, it undeniably lends the appearance of impropriety. There's no getting around that appearance, even if it is ultimately meaningless.

Again, you've *gotta* get the facts straight here.......

You've *gotta* do your research, before your fingers go on the keyboard.

Elvis was never a member of the GOL.

No-one in the GOL currently sells any countermeasures, on any level.

The sole member of the GOL who has decided to pursue such - RacerX - specifically bowed-out of his membership in the GOL, for fear of somehow tainting the GOL's good name with the fact that the PASS is a Cheetah-USA product.

Again, if you want to continue this debate, you've really GOTTA get your facts straight......You NEED to do your homework.

[happya$$]

guys it is all good now. IMO this is the BEST time for us the consumer looking to purchase jammers and RD's. The high lever of choices has never been better. I respect Stealth Stalker for questioning everything. This is why I want to invite him to our next event. I want him to see everything with his own two eyes and I like to meet him since I started on the wrong foot with him

[Stealth Stalker]

I appreciate all the info. This isn't a debate to me. I completely understand what you are saying, and I don't disagree with any of it. I am just acknowledging the fact, which you noted, that there was a legitimate opening there at one time, and the opposition took it and ran with it. Nothing wrong with that. It's the "checks and balances" that you mentioned in another topic. Keeping each other honest. It's positive for the community to assure that even the appearance of impropriety doesn't go unchecked. But, when all is said and done, it is obvious that an "appearance" is all that it was. Hey, it happens.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but it is important to me that everyone understands that I am not a detractor of GOL. I don't question their integrity. If I did, I wouldn't be here. If I were here just to give them a hard time, I'd do a much better job that this, lol. But one need not be here at this forum very long to understand that their integrity is fully intact. You can ask for jammer recommendations here and get five different recommendations from five different GOL's. Try getting that objectivity elsewhere! Quite obviously, there is no "party line" to push one product at GOL. And there's too many of them for any manufacturer to pay them all off, lol.

You guys absolutely have my respect and trust. I can see through all the BS. I just wish that a few of you would make more effort to take the high road when it comes to the Goon feud. Yeah, I know that it's easier said than done. And I'm not always one to lead by example either, lol. But seriously, this is the Internet, where image is all we have.

Cheers