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  1. #1
    Newcomer Array
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    Default LED Laser Jammer Laser Diode BOOSTER upgrade

    I don't even have a Jammer yet, but I'm already thinking about how to improve performance of the LED based units (science geek). I have the technical know-how to take the signals (i.e., pulsed drive current/voltage) going to the LEDs on the Jammers/Blinders/Shifters, convert them to the necessary drive electronics for a laser diode and drive a SMALL external laser diode to guarantee JTG if the signal is right.

    The LIDAR guns send out a 25mW beam and are probably expecting much less than 1mW back. The LI is a Class 1 laser so it is <1mW. As a custom add on I can use a 1, 5, 10 or 25mW laser. A single 5 or 10mW laser would be more than sufficient for jamming, but 2-3 detector heads are still recommended for detecting the signal.

    I wouldn't put my eye right up to any of these laser, but without beam optics (how it would be run in this application) the beam spreads so quickly that there is no danger at all 2 feet away from the laser head.

    Still, this is surely not legal to sell as a laser jamming device and there is probably some law against putting a laser on the front of your car, but there are no patent issues. Other than the ZR3, the problem with the LED based systems is lack of power. Basically this would be a way to upgrade LED systems to perform even better than the LI as long as they can detect and drive the right laser frequencies which I believe they can.
    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    The Professor Array
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    That is all very interesting Metaphysics!

    Here are some more things for you to think about:

    When you're talking about mW, you're talking average power. When discussing jammers, we usually use peak power since the jammers use pulsed laser diodes. For example, some diode jammers use an SPL PL90_3, which is 75W+ peak power (but very low duty cycle of course).

    You need three things to jam:

    1. Good detection
    2. Good algorithms
    3. Good transmitter

    If any one of those things fails, jamming will fail. Your proposed modification theoretically addresses two of them: #1 (you suggest multiple detectors) and #3 (adding a laser diode).

    So, your ideas are very interesting, but are they practical? Perhaps from an experimenter's standpoint, but maybe not from a regular hobbyists.

    Here's one problem: Many jammer heads are completely filled with epoxy to prevent water intrusion. In the case of the Blinder, the whole jamming circuit is in the transponder, the in-vehicle junction box only provides poiwer and alerts. In order to modify one of these units, you would need to remove the epoxy somehow. Perhaps there is some sort of solvent out there that will do the trick. However when I did it, I did not have such a solvent available, so I used heat Even though I was meticulous and very careful, I ended up destroying the case, and only one component on the board:

    Click here for pic

    A little rough, eh?

    Some other jammers do not have epoxy , like a couple of ZR-3's that I've seen. So maybe you could do somthing with those. I've heard before that the ZR-3 uses very good algorithms. You also might want to ADD epoxy once the mods are performed, to protect from water intrusion.

    But the actual jammer hardware is so simple, perhaps your ideas would best be applied to something new, instead of trying to modify something else? But I guess that would require coming up with some algorithms (or "borrowing" :wink: )

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphysics
    Other than the ZR3, the problem with the LED based systems is lack of power.
    Just curious: why do you say "other than the ZR3"? Some LED-based systems have even more problems than lack of power, (such as lack of detection!) and the ZR-3 should have the same power problems as Blinder, if not more so...

    Anyways good luck, let us know when you have something ready to test :wink:

  3. #3
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    Thanks for all the helpful info. I was afraid of the epoxy fill. I was hoping that I could share/sell a "kit" for "experimenting" that includes a laser and electronics inside a waterproof housing with a pair of wires to go to splice into the LED connection inside an existing jammer set up and a pair of wires that go to 12V to power the laser diode. That would be relatively DIY to install if they didn't make it so hard to splice into the LEDs.

    I'm not suggesting to add more detectors just use the 2,3,or 4 detectors that are in the existing jammers and disabling one of the LEDs to use to drive the LD.


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbonzzz
    Just curious: why do you say "other than the ZR3"?
    :wink:
    From your GOL jammer test, it looks like the ZR3 has a "bad" algorithmsfor the LA Stealth so I thought that was the worst candidate because bad algorithms can't be overcome even with a bright laser.


    Maybe the ZR3 w/o epoxy is a good candidate.

    Do you know what the peak powers of the LIDAR systems are?

    meta

  4. #4
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    The LI uses a Class 1M lasers not a Class 1 laser. A Class 1M laser is a laser with a large beam divergence meaning if the beam was visible it would look like a flashlight and spread out and not stay in a nice thin line like a normal laser would.. A class 1M laser can go up to 500mw of power(I think higher if they are pulsed and most IR diodes are pulsed), now from my experience with IR lasers the all have horrible beam divergence and its near impossible to focus them.

    Generally with a large divergence the laser becomes less dangerous becomes more like a bright flashlight. I lent my camera out and wont have it back until monday but if you would like I can demonstrate some beam divergence with my 180mw red laser which I can focus.

  5. #5
    The Professor Array
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphysics
    Do you know what the peak powers of the LIDAR systems are?
    The guns themselves? I'm not sure, but I think the ProLaser patent mentioned a diode with 50W peak. But of course, the guns also have optics to consider...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbonzzz
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphysics
    Do you know what the peak powers of the LIDAR systems are?
    The guns themselves? I'm not sure, but I think the ProLaser patent mentioned a diode with 50W peak. But of course, the guns also have optics to consider...
    The optics wont increase the power but will only help to focus the beam.. What is it at 200 feet the lidar beam is 3 feet wide, that just shows you have horrible the divergence on IR lasers is even with optics. At 200 feet even my worst visible laser will have a dot of 5 inches +-2.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewaz
    The LI uses a Class 1M lasers not a Class 1 laser. A Class 1M laser is a laser with a large beam divergence meaning if the beam was visible it would look like a flashlight and spread out and not stay in a nice thin line like a normal laser would.. A class 1M laser can go up to 500mw of power(I think higher if they are pulsed and most IR diodes are pulsed), now from my experience with IR lasers the all have horrible beam divergence and its near impossible to focus them.
    I stand corrected on the Class 1 vs. Class 1M. By the nature of the task, I knew that they had a widely diverging beam. So it seems like we will need a high peak power and leave the beam diverging.

    ALL laser diodes visible or near-infrared have high divergence. It's just the optics that are put on them that can tame it. I have used plenty of NIR LDs that have very collimated beams due to a nice aspherical optic in front of them.

    I'd be really surprised if cops were shooting 50W peak lasers, even pulsed. If they got scatter off their cars window frame, they run the risk of serious eye damage.

    Anybody have a p/n of the laser inside a LIDAR?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphysics
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewaz
    The LI uses a Class 1M lasers not a Class 1 laser. A Class 1M laser is a laser with a large beam divergence meaning if the beam was visible it would look like a flashlight and spread out and not stay in a nice thin line like a normal laser would.. A class 1M laser can go up to 500mw of power(I think higher if they are pulsed and most IR diodes are pulsed), now from my experience with IR lasers the all have horrible beam divergence and its near impossible to focus them.
    I stand corrected on the Class 1 vs. Class 1M. By the nature of the task, I knew that they had a widely diverging beam. So it seems like we will need a high peak power and leave the beam diverging.

    ALL laser diodes visible or near-infrared have high divergence. It's just the optics that are put on them that can tame it. I have used plenty of NIR LDs that have very collimated beams due to a nice aspherical optic in front of them.

    I'd be really surprised if cops were shooting 50W peak lasers, even pulsed. If they got scatter off their cars window frame, they run the risk of serious eye damage.

    Anybody have a p/n of the laser inside a LIDAR?
    Not really on having high divergence, red 650nm diodes often do no have lenses and are a nice beam, green lasers which uses IR diodes and crystals have very good beam divergence when compared to an IR diode. IR diodes are odd in the fact that most of the time they can be focuses with lens at close distances but can never be focused like a 650nm red or 532nm green. I have never seen a good near IR 808nm be able to focus beyond 10 feet or have the beam divergence even close to a cheap store bought 650nm red. Its easy to compare the behavior of IR to say a green laser without an IR filter, you will notice using a green filter it will allow only IR out and the IR even while passing the same lenses the green beam did will make a nice halo around where the green beam would of been.

    50mw of IR would only be a danger at closer ranges where it is focused after the beam starts to diverge which IR does quickly it will be harmless. 50mw on a dot the size of an eraser has some power but 50mw spread over a 5 inch diameter spot wont harm.

    My guess is the lidar diode is pulsed since the lidar gun sends out pulses of light to get a reading hence the pulse rates for the guns such as 100pps or 125pps.

    I found some info on the lidar guns

    http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/FAQonLidar.html#LINK29

    Says the use 25mw in the lidar guns..

    Just for prices a 20watt 904nm diode is $60 and for 50-80mw is $300

    http://www.roithner-laser.com/All_Da...RLT904-30G.pdf

    data sheet for a 904nm diode.

  9. #9
    Radar Fanatic Array
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    As posted on the other thread, the new Escort Zr4 has Laser Atlanta stealth mode jamming algorithms now. I'm more worried about the escort's ability to jam other guns that gave it problems.

    1. Good detection
    2. Good algorithms
    3. Good transmitter

    The Zr3 probably has more issues with number 3 than the others. It has superior detection and good algorithms. Most Led jammers have trouble jamming at closer distances because of their inability to keep up with the speed of the Lidar guns laser diode. There was a very interesting thread that I stumbled upon some time ago that explained this in great detail. I'll see if I can find it.

  10. #10
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    @Metaphysics

    Your idea is smart and can easily be done. You keep the detection and CPU part and you change the Transmitter and the electronics that drive it. If you can do it in similar volume as the factory jammer (it's important to have easy installation), then every user can upgrade the old jammers, as long as they still have good algorithms.

    Thnx for your time.

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