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  1. #1
    Manufacturer
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    3,205

    Default Welcome to the VEIL Forum

    First off, I would like to thank Radar Roy for sponsoring this site!

    Answers to frequently asked questions about VEIL can be found at: VEIL FAQs

    A multi-lingual VEIL site is located at: VEIL Int'l

    I would like to start this forum with some suggestions on how to handle yourself in the event you ever get pulled-over for a traffic violation. This comes from my own personal experiences and should not be taken as legal advice.

    Wisdom

    Over the years, I have learned to make this process as painless as possible for both myself and the officer. I realize, now, that police officers are like everyone else - in that they are often married and have children, have good work days and bad work days, and, especially today, are sometimes confronted with life-threatening situations when engaged in traffic stops.

    If you keep this in mind, the steps you take during a pull-over can go a long way in keeping tensions down to a minimum.

    Moral - Make the situation as least confrontational as possible.

    When initially pulled-over, keep both of your hands [and your passengers'] in plain view. In the driver's case either place them high on-top of the steering wheel or outside of your window.

    This serves to let the approaching officer that you are not a potential threat. A number of officers have expressed sincere gratitude for taking their feelings into consideration.

    If you are pulled over at night, turn on the interior lights so that officer can clearly see inside your vehicle. This will also server to lesson tensions.

    Be prepared with appropriate ID - you know its coming.

    Do NOT be argumentative in your tone. You know you were likely speeding.

    If asked why you were pulled over, don't lie or make up some excuse - they hear this all the time; don't be a whiner. Since answering in the affirmative to speeding is paramount to self incrimination - that's why they ask you - kindly reply to the question with something like "with all do respect, doesn't answering your question open me up to self incrimination?" I have found that officers appreciate savvy drivers and you will find that you have shifted the burden back to the officer and have begun a dialogue!

    Once you have been told what you already know, it pays to be familiar with the state/local statutes.

    Ask if the officer would be willing to cite you with a reduced statute. In PA, for example, a PA3111A is a catch-all moving violation that carries no points.

    Remember that you are not asking to be given a "break" - they hear this all the time too. You are just asking for his/her consideration of citing a different statute.

    When my speeds have been higher, I have offered to accept on the spot a citation for a PA3111A and a seat-belt violation [which carries no points is PA] even though I wear one. This way, everybody gets what they want. The officer has violations/fines he/she can take back to the barracks and you have a reduced fine/penalty and no points.

    Some states have jurisprudence in abeyance, which is a fancy way for saying that your citation will be dropped if you don't receive another moving violation in some period thereafter.

    They key to all of this is to avoid the points and subsequent insurance surcharges you would otherwise receive. Accept any fine, in and of itself, as the tax for having the privilege to drive faster.

    I am not saying you'll get off of all of your speeding tickets; but I am suggesting that you will fare much better. And most importantly, you'll be acting as a more responsible citizen to boot.

    If you look at it this way, you'll get through all of this much easier.

    Happy and safe motoring! 8)

    The VEIL Guy
    Last edited by Veil Guy; 04-21-2009 at 04:17 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default

    VEIL Guy,

    Everything you said is right on, I agree with every word of it and I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to start any sort of an argument. However.............

    I sure wish there were a nice, polite, non confrontational way of knowing for sure if the nice man was going to write a ticket or not. I really don't want to spend 15 - 20 minutes listening to a safety lecture and chit chatting about whatever he happens to be interested in AND getting a ticket too. I'd prefer to chit chat of course, but I don't want to get poked with both ends of a dirty stick.

    It's my experience that the policeman pretty much knows when he gets out of his patrol car if he's going to write a ticket or not. The victim can talk his way into a ticket by being a jerk, but it's next to impossible to talk your way out of a ticket that the officer plans to issue.

    Understanding the local laws and asking for a reduced offense citation is a new and appealing idea. Reducing the stress of the situation in any way possible seems to be just common courtesy and a good idea no matter what the expected outcome of the traffic stop might be. And who knows, it might save you from getting a flashlight bruise on the side of your head.

  3. #3
    Manufacturer
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    3,205

    Default Quite right.

    Thanks for your response, Ray:

    I thought I was providing you with a nice, polite, and non-confrontational way of interacting with troopers. Rest assured you won't be subjecting yourself to any 15 minute lectures as you'll be able determine quickly whether or not the outcome is headed your way.

    About 80% of the time I have been able to either get a reduction or a warning of some sort because of my [positive] attitidude. It has been my experience that officers can and do make their decisions at the driver's window.

    In any case, in my view, the ticket is "inconsequential" - whether I ultimately get one or not - as compared to how I act, which, for me, is paramount.

    I don't try to "beat" my way out of a ticket. I simply aspire to be a decent and respectful individual. If I happen to benefit personally from this approach all the better, if not, I am no worse off for it either.

    Again, I am not speaking in absolutes, but simply to share my good experiences with all y'all in the hopes that some of you may benefit.

    Good luck! 8)


    The Veil Guy
    ALERT: Purchase the latest Veil G5 Direct from the Manufacturer or from one of our Authorized Dealers at the Veil Store.

    Stay informed with the latest industry news and product reviews Veil Guy's Radar Detector Reviews.

    Experience real-world encounters as they actually happened on the open road, from the pioneer of this bonafide real-world testing format. Visit Veil Guy's radar detector videos.

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  4. #4
    Good Citizen
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Does it hurt to ask politely to see a display of your speed? Recently my uncle was stopped on I-40 in eastern OK. His Detector didn't warn. The officer claimed he clocked "unc" at 84 mph in a 70 zone. "Unc" ask to see the display. The officer declined!

    So "Unc" confronted him in a very respectful tone. He informed the officer he suspected that he had used the formidable "POP" radar and that his detector hadn't gone off. He aslo said he suspected the officer never got a "lock" on him. The officer simply re-stated he didn't have to show him the display.

    Unc took the citiation...thanked the trooper and went on his way. The next week he showed up in court to contest the ticket on grounds that the trooper refused to disclose his radar display. The Judge dropped the ticket.

    Would this be a reasonable way to handle an encounter in the future or did "UNC" just get lucky.

  5. #5
    Manufacturer
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    3,205

    Default Roy would probably be better to answer this question.

    Honestly,

    I don't know the answer to this question.

    Perhaps Roy [a retired police officer] would be in a better position to answer your question.

    For what its worth, whenever I get pulled-over I try to elevate the dialogue above the actual incident.

    This approach generally, has served me quite well.

    The Veil Guy
    ALERT: Purchase the latest Veil G5 Direct from the Manufacturer or from one of our Authorized Dealers at the Veil Store.

    Stay informed with the latest industry news and product reviews Veil Guy's Radar Detector Reviews.

    Experience real-world encounters as they actually happened on the open road, from the pioneer of this bonafide real-world testing format. Visit Veil Guy's radar detector videos.

    Socialize with the Veil Guy: Google+, Facebook

  6. #6
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Morristown, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    3,300

    Default Another View Point

    Well as well as being a cop for 20 years, I was also a defensive driving instructor for 10 years and was an instructor for the Arizona Superior Court Ticket Diversion Class.

    This is what I have instructed to my students in all my classes and many of my students have gotten back to me saying that it got them out of a ticket (but it is not the intention)

    First off, the most stressful and the most dangerous time for a police officer are the moments that he is approaching your car. This is when most officer involved shooting occur. He has no idea who you are or what else you may have done. You maybe the guy that was just showcased on America’s Most Wanted, or school teacher. He is watching every move you make and your body language. He is trained to watch your hands and what you and your passengers are reaching for. The most dangerous part of your body are your hands! This is where a weapon will be!

    So this is what I recommend, this will reduce the STRESS LEVEL of the officer as he approached

    If it is night, turn on your interior lights

    Roll down your window and place your hands on the stearing wheel PALMS UP! Instruct any passengers that you have in your car to put their hands up on the dash with palms up.

    Once the officer sees this he knows that your hands are no longer a threat and his stress level is going to go down. However he will still be curious as to why you done this, when he asks you later you can respond with something like this.

    “My (son, neighbor, best friend, or Radar Roy) is a police officer and I have ridden with him a number of times, and this is what he always asked people to do as he approached. I just wanted to extend the same courtesy these other drivers extend to him and done it with out your asking”

    “I saw this on COPS and wanted to extend this courtesy to you”

    Be ready to answer any other questions he may have such as what department or what ever…

    The most important thing is be courteous and answer his questions as truthfully as you can without incriminating yourself. The biggest trap is “do you know how fast you were going” or “do you know why I stopped you”

    Chances are that your answers are all being recorded. So if you say, yes, I was speeding and going over 20 miles over the posted speed limit, guess what is going to be played back in court.

    Just explain that you had other things on your mind and no, you want the officer to explain the reason(s) for the stop
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  7. #7
    Yoda of Radar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    O'FALLON, MISSOURI
    Posts
    15,630

    Default

    Another good tip is when an officer ask do you know why I pulled you over, be truthful, but don't talk more than you have to. Also if he comes right out and says is there a reason you were driving this way, tell the truth say no not at all sir/mam. Don't give an excuse. Giving excuses just confirms to the officer you were speeding. Tell the truth. It's possible that it could incriminate you but you also have a chance that you acknowledged you did something wrong.

    Another tip, if you are speeding and you get clocked and you are like oh $hit I know he nailed me. Start comming to a normal speed and look to see if he's starting to pull out after you. If he is, signal, change lanes slowley and just pull over and wait for him. This inplies to him , you know your caught doing something wrong, but shows you are alert and aware of people and situations on the road.

    If you have a radar detector, its a good idea if you can throw it under the seat. Only do this if you can do it before an officer has pulled you over.
    Officers hate radar detectors. Like I said only do this before you have pulled over. DO NOT make fast movments if you know for sure the officer can see you!
    Laser Interceptor Dual, Laser Interceptor Quad, Valentine 1 & The Escort 8500 X50 - Blue, Uniden BC296D, GRE500, Lasershield, 2011 Kia Soul +, Yamaha FZ6, 2005 Black Dodge Neon SRT-4,


  8. #8
    Newcomer
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chi-Town
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Another View Point

    Quote Originally Posted by radarroy
    Well as well as being a cop for 20 years, I was also a defensive driving instructor for 10 years and was an instructor for the Arizona Superior Court Ticket Diversion Class.

    This is what I have instructed to my students in all my classes and many of my students have gotten back to me saying that it got them out of a ticket (but it is not the intention)

    First off, the most stressful and the most dangerous time for a police officer are the moments that he is approaching your car. This is when most officer involved shooting occur. He has no idea who you are or what else you may have done. You maybe the guy that was just showcased on America’s Most Wanted, or school teacher. He is watching every move you make and your body language. He is trained to watch your hands and what you and your passengers are reaching for. The most dangerous part of your body are your hands! This is where a weapon will be!

    So this is what I recommend, this will reduce the STRESS LEVEL of the officer as he approached

    If it is night, turn on your interior lights

    Roll down your window and place your hands on the stearing wheel PALMS UP! Instruct any passengers that you have in your car to put their hands up on the dash with palms up.

    Once the officer sees this he knows that your hands are no longer a threat and his stress level is going to go down. However he will still be curious as to why you done this, when he asks you later you can respond with something like this.

    “My (son, neighbor, best friend, or Radar Roy) is a police officer and I have ridden with him a number of times, and this is what he always asked people to do as he approached. I just wanted to extend the same courtesy these other drivers extend to him and done it with out your asking”

    “I saw this on COPS and wanted to extend this courtesy to you”

    Be ready to answer any other questions he may have such as what department or what ever…

    The most important thing is be courteous and answer his questions as truthfully as you can without incriminating yourself. The biggest trap is “do you know how fast you were going” or “do you know why I stopped you”

    Chances are that your answers are all being recorded. So if you say, yes, I was speeding and going over 20 miles over the posted speed limit, guess what is going to be played back in court.

    Just explain that you had other things on your mind and no, you want the officer to explain the reason(s) for the stop
    I'm sorry but that is completly ridiculous. If you even START like you KNOW the rules, turn on inside lights, keep hands in the air the cops gonna think Hey this dude knows what's up. He OBVIOUSLY has been pulled over before.

    P.S. You said, "Chances are that your answers are all being recorded. So if you say, yes, I was speeding and going over 20 miles over the posted speed limit, guess what is going to be played back in court."

    Depends if your rights were read or not yet.

  9. #9
    Yoda of Radar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    O'FALLON, MISSOURI
    Posts
    15,630

    Default

    They don't have to read your rights unless you are being arrested. So anything you say can be used as evidence in court.
    Laser Interceptor Dual, Laser Interceptor Quad, Valentine 1 & The Escort 8500 X50 - Blue, Uniden BC296D, GRE500, Lasershield, 2011 Kia Soul +, Yamaha FZ6, 2005 Black Dodge Neon SRT-4,


  10. #10
    Manufacturer
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    3,205

    Default

    StlouisX50,

    Absolute fact. I got into that trap once and heard what was essentially my own words being read back to me at the hearing.

    That was the price I paid for that education.

    With respect to the lights on at night...highly recommended. Just watch one episode of COPS to get the perspective from the officer's standpoint.

    When I do this, I don't really care what the officer believes how many times I have been pulled over - what I do care is about contributing everything in my power to lower the level of "confrontation" and stress of those first few seconds of his/her approach.

    The rest of the experience is setup and flows from that initial point in time.

    Veil Guy 8)
    ALERT: Purchase the latest Veil G5 Direct from the Manufacturer or from one of our Authorized Dealers at the Veil Store.

    Stay informed with the latest industry news and product reviews Veil Guy's Radar Detector Reviews.

    Experience real-world encounters as they actually happened on the open road, from the pioneer of this bonafide real-world testing format. Visit Veil Guy's radar detector videos.

    Socialize with the Veil Guy: Google+, Facebook

 

 

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