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  1. #1
    Lead Foot
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    Apr 2008
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    Boston
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    Default For License Plate: Veil vs Laser Shield vs Cr8apl8 vs other?

    For License Plate: Veil vs Laser Shield vs Cr8apl8 vs other?

    Which works best? Which is least likely to get caught? Is it worth it to combine them or is just 1 enough to do the job? Anything else effective, such as 3m duct tape worth adding to the list? Any difference between front and rear plate, is 1 technique better in front/back compared to another?

    Also, would your suggestion change at all depending on what type of jammer is being used, LED or diode (say a zr4 vs Cheetah PASS, waiting on some test results before making that decision)?

  2. #2
    Old Timer
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    Cleveland/Shaker Heights, Ohio, USA
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    The front plate is a huge "point weakness."

    The typical metal state-issued front plate is highly LIDAR reflective. The fact that it is flat, and totally perpendicular to the roadway, certainly doesn't help. These reasons, combined together, makes it the preferred targeting point of enforcers in front-plate-mandatory states/areas. Enforcers in such areas are typically trained to first target the plate/center-mass, before anything else.

    As such, one would expect that by addressing this "point weakness," LIDAR effectiveness can be decreased - and similarly, by playing the game the right way, you could also "bait" enforcement, too, by offering up a valid "front plate" for targeting.

    In terms of addressing laser reflectivity, it's much the same as the concerns presented by the vehicle's light-assemblies. Here, instead of reflectors either beyond an overlying lens or laying beyond a projector lens, you've got directly-exposed reflective elements - much the same as on the tail-light or rear of many vehicles (or even those reflectors on your kids' bikes). What we are looking to do, as countermeasures hobbyists, is to cut reflectivity as much as possible (visible-light reflectivity, although a far-from-perfect measure of laser reflectivity, is nonetheless a predictative factor).

    You can cut reflectivity by "roughing up" the surface of the plate in a number of ways. You could do anything from just keeping the plate dirty with road-grime to try to scruff them up a bit using steel-wool or fine-grade Emory paper - or you could try to "matte" its surface with, say, a spray-coating of matte-finish clearcoat, covering it with a single layer of carefully laid 3M Clear Duct Tape (yes, this actually works), or using a commercial cover, such as the LaserShield (which is a matte/dimpled plastic cover). You could even use VEIL (either on the plate, directly, or on the exterior [and/or interior] of an overlying cover). The idea here is to simply break-up the LIDAR return by substituting a non-smooth surface for where, before, only a smooth surface existed and thus facilitated the return of the laser beam.

    The trick to the stuff above, though, is how much compromise you're willing to make, in terms of the aesthetics of the situation (i.e. "scruffing up" the plate - which, here in the snow belt, can lead to rusting), and whether or not items such as plate-covers are legal in your area (the LaserShield, for example, is readily "visible" when about 30 ft. away from the vehicle, particularly if you know what you're looking for).

    Another way to address this concern is to physically think about the plate itself..... that is, to say, substitute the reflective-material embedded state-issue metallic plate for a less-reflective one. This can be achieved by using anything from a high-quality color photocopy of the state plate to purchasing fiberglass/plastic replicas of the plate (from, for example, CR8APL8). Again, here, the question will be how far you're willing to go in terms of aesthetic compromises - and also, with the replica plates, the spectre of it potentially being "illegal" becomes more of a concern, too.

    ----

    The above was a copy-past that was a part of my e-mail to a friend of mine.

    The following is a very recent thread, which further illustrates the specific points covered above of:

    (1) visible-light -to- IR-reflectivity association
    (2) plate photocopy

    :arrow:

    http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=36563

    ----

    Now, the additional question you've posed is a very interesting one - whether or not if one's jammer setup/choice affects passive countermeasures concerns.

    Without a doubt, yes, this is definitely a consideration - for those with "weaker" jammers, the more passive protection layered-on, the better.

    However, even for those with an overwhelming array of top-flight active jammers capable of "screwing the gun" , it is my personal belief that passive countermeasures should not be overlooked, particularly in terms of such vulnerable "hardpoints."

    To me, it's about achieving a full circle of defense, where each layer of active and passive protection combines, in-synergy, to render a result that's greater than the sum of its parts.

  3. #3
    Newcomer
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    Cool 3m Lidar Reflectivity Of License Plates

    There are a couple of other things you can do to reduce the amount of IR bounced back to the LEO LIDAR's detector. Along the same line as the stealth fighter technology you can change the angle of the front plane of the license plate downward (towards the road surface) at a slight angle bouncing more of the pulsed IR laser bean downward into the road. This is technique is used in the stealth fighter geometry in that the angles are such that what radar isn't absorbed is deflected away from the point of origin.

    Another technique would be to creat a subtle convex bend in the license plate so that when looking from above it is bowed out towards the LOE LIDAR. This keeps the entire plate from reflecting back... a single vertical line will be reflected back and the sharper the bow the thinner this vertical line.

    You could actually combine both of these methods to reduce your LIDAR IR Cross Section... won't make you undectable of course. It will just make your detectable range a little less as you will have to be closer to the LOE before LOE gets a reading.

  4. #4
    Yoda of Radar
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    I have Veil and a CR8APL8, and no one notices unless I tell them.

  5. #5
    Speedtrap Crasher
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    This license plate issue is pretty gnarly. Way too much reflectivity from that thing to even try and take a chance with it on the front end. The rear plate you generally have to use because of the opportunities law enforcement will have to give it close inspection (Tizzy excepted because he's a stealth freak of nature). Case in Point: When we tested our jammers last Spring SpeedDemon was very stealthy but still caught a PunchThru on his single head LPP because the operator probably caught a piece of his "state issue" plate he keeps on his dashboard. So in my opinion if your serious about reducing forward reflectivity the state issue plate has got to go.

    The CR8APL8 looks fake up close but with a plate cover it will easily pass casual inspection. I think in the final analysis all illusions are a form of diversion. The front plate is like the magicians fake thumb. It only looks fake when you know what it is and when to look for it.
    Project "BONES" Speed Lab:
    Valentine One, Blinder M47 "All Front Configuration"
    Pro97 Police Scanner
    1 Saves / 3 Strikes as of 8/22/2009
    Estimated saves in U.S. Dollars: $200

  6. #6
    Good Citizen
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    May 2008
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    I got crap for my plates while using lasersheild covers from a late night leo. He claimed he couldn't see them when his lights were turned off?!?! Besides that I found if you put some adhesive in the middle of the shield and the plate, it keeps the 2 closer together so you can see the plates more clearly.

  7. #7
    Advanced Member
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    Feb 2007
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    To deflectorise a plate :

    You will notice that the letters/numbers are not reflective. Only the background contains those very tiny pigment called ''cataphore'' , which reflects the incidental light to any angle ,not depending the angle of arrival .

    So you apply a flat paint , latex outdoor house paint , of the right color on every reflective surface. Apply meticulously so to render as good as the ''original''.

    You could also color photocopy your plate , apply/replace the real plate , with some kind of weather protection of your own recipe.

    From my tests , the intensity of reflection is cut by 3 to 4 folds .

    http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...il-when-3.html

  8. #8
    Street Lawyer
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    Jul 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloi View Post
    To deflectorise a plate :

    You will notice that the letters/numbers are not reflective. Only the background contains those very tiny pigment called ''cataphore'' , which reflects the incidental light to any angle ,not depending the angle of arrival .

    So you apply a flat paint , latex outdoor house paint , of the right color on every reflective surface. Apply meticulously so to render as good as the ''original''.

    You could also color photocopy your plate , apply/replace the real plate , with some kind of weather protection of your own recipe.

    From my tests , the intensity of reflection is cut by 3 to 4 folds .

    http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...il-when-3.html
    yea, don't fly in States like Texas unless you have a personalized plate that is all white, and those plates are not embossed, they are flat, so hard to paint around the numbers, better off with a photocopy in that scenario. The regular/standard embossed plates have a scenic background, so it's not like you can paint them. Tho I see people put stuff around the numbers all the time and you can tell they've applied something to the plate.

  9. #9
    Professional
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    the original plate:


    color photocopy on fuji paper and laminated

  10. #10
    Speedtrap Crasher
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    Aug 2006
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    Houston, TX
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    Default Re: For License Plate: Veil vs Laser Shield vs Cr8apl8 vs other?

    Holy ShT! ^! That's a nice lookin car
    Project "BONES" Speed Lab:
    Valentine One, Blinder M47 "All Front Configuration"
    Pro97 Police Scanner
    1 Saves / 3 Strikes as of 8/22/2009
    Estimated saves in U.S. Dollars: $200

 

 

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