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  1. #1
    Lead Foot Array
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Boston
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    354

    Default For License Plate: Veil vs Laser Shield vs Cr8apl8 vs other?

    For License Plate: Veil vs Laser Shield vs Cr8apl8 vs other?

    Which works best? Which is least likely to get caught? Is it worth it to combine them or is just 1 enough to do the job? Anything else effective, such as 3m duct tape worth adding to the list? Any difference between front and rear plate, is 1 technique better in front/back compared to another?

    Also, would your suggestion change at all depending on what type of jammer is being used, LED or diode (say a zr4 vs Cheetah PASS, waiting on some test results before making that decision)?

  2. #2
    Old Timer Array
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland/Shaker Heights, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    7,753

    Default

    The front plate is a huge "point weakness."

    The typical metal state-issued front plate is highly LIDAR reflective. The fact that it is flat, and totally perpendicular to the roadway, certainly doesn't help. These reasons, combined together, makes it the preferred targeting point of enforcers in front-plate-mandatory states/areas. Enforcers in such areas are typically trained to first target the plate/center-mass, before anything else.

    As such, one would expect that by addressing this "point weakness," LIDAR effectiveness can be decreased - and similarly, by playing the game the right way, you could also "bait" enforcement, too, by offering up a valid "front plate" for targeting.

    In terms of addressing laser reflectivity, it's much the same as the concerns presented by the vehicle's light-assemblies. Here, instead of reflectors either beyond an overlying lens or laying beyond a projector lens, you've got directly-exposed reflective elements - much the same as on the tail-light or rear of many vehicles (or even those reflectors on your kids' bikes). What we are looking to do, as countermeasures hobbyists, is to cut reflectivity as much as possible (visible-light reflectivity, although a far-from-perfect measure of laser reflectivity, is nonetheless a predictative factor).

    You can cut reflectivity by "roughing up" the surface of the plate in a number of ways. You could do anything from just keeping the plate dirty with road-grime to try to scruff them up a bit using steel-wool or fine-grade Emory paper - or you could try to "matte" its surface with, say, a spray-coating of matte-finish clearcoat, covering it with a single layer of carefully laid 3M Clear Duct Tape (yes, this actually works), or using a commercial cover, such as the LaserShield (which is a matte/dimpled plastic cover). You could even use VEIL (either on the plate, directly, or on the exterior [and/or interior] of an overlying cover). The idea here is to simply break-up the LIDAR return by substituting a non-smooth surface for where, before, only a smooth surface existed and thus facilitated the return of the laser beam.

    The trick to the stuff above, though, is how much compromise you're willing to make, in terms of the aesthetics of the situation (i.e. "scruffing up" the plate - which, here in the snow belt, can lead to rusting), and whether or not items such as plate-covers are legal in your area (the LaserShield, for example, is readily "visible" when about 30 ft. away from the vehicle, particularly if you know what you're looking for).

    Another way to address this concern is to physically think about the plate itself..... that is, to say, substitute the reflective-material embedded state-issue metallic plate for a less-reflective one. This can be achieved by using anything from a high-quality color photocopy of the state plate to purchasing fiberglass/plastic replicas of the plate (from, for example, CR8APL8). Again, here, the question will be how far you're willing to go in terms of aesthetic compromises - and also, with the replica plates, the spectre of it potentially being "illegal" becomes more of a concern, too.

    ----

    The above was a copy-past that was a part of my e-mail to a friend of mine.

    The following is a very recent thread, which further illustrates the specific points covered above of:

    (1) visible-light -to- IR-reflectivity association
    (2) plate photocopy

    :arrow:

    http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=36563

    ----

    Now, the additional question you've posed is a very interesting one - whether or not if one's jammer setup/choice affects passive countermeasures concerns.

    Without a doubt, yes, this is definitely a consideration - for those with "weaker" jammers, the more passive protection layered-on, the better.

    However, even for those with an overwhelming array of top-flight active jammers capable of "screwing the gun" , it is my personal belief that passive countermeasures should not be overlooked, particularly in terms of such vulnerable "hardpoints."

    To me, it's about achieving a full circle of defense, where each layer of active and passive protection combines, in-synergy, to render a result that's greater than the sum of its parts.
    - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

    Me: '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT Limited sedan, 5MT, Atlantic Blue Pearl ("periwinkle") - name: "Winky"
    - countermeasures: 9500i (4307, Red)/ZR3; LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4s (2x front, 1x rear), LI Rev2.8, Ver7.03 (quad: 8.0A-f w/Slim 8.5-r); VEIL G4; CR8APL8 w/LaserShield (front); Cheetah GPS-Mirror

    Wifey: '09 Forester XT, Spark Silver Metallic - name: "Rocky"
    - countermeasures: 8500x50 (Rev5, Blue); LI Rev2.9, Ver7.08 (8.5 dual); LaserShield-F

    Baby-Anna: too short to reach any pedals!

  3. #3
    Newcomer Array
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Stafford, Virginia
    Posts
    13

    Cool 3m Lidar Reflectivity Of License Plates

    There are a couple of other things you can do to reduce the amount of IR bounced back to the LEO LIDAR's detector. Along the same line as the stealth fighter technology you can change the angle of the front plane of the license plate downward (towards the road surface) at a slight angle bouncing more of the pulsed IR laser bean downward into the road. This is technique is used in the stealth fighter geometry in that the angles are such that what radar isn't absorbed is deflected away from the point of origin.

    Another technique would be to creat a subtle convex bend in the license plate so that when looking from above it is bowed out towards the LOE LIDAR. This keeps the entire plate from reflecting back... a single vertical line will be reflected back and the sharper the bow the thinner this vertical line.

    You could actually combine both of these methods to reduce your LIDAR IR Cross Section... won't make you undectable of course. It will just make your detectable range a little less as you will have to be closer to the LOE before LOE gets a reading.
    JD Anderson
    Virginia

  4. #4
    Yoda of Radar Array
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles Area
    Posts
    13,884

    Default

    I have Veil and a CR8APL8, and no one notices unless I tell them.

    Spoiler: show
    Mustang GT Convertible, Bel STi-R Plus, V1 3.892 hardwired with X and K off, Laser Interceptor Quad.
    9500ix confiscated by the woman and hardwired high in her car.

  5. #5
    Speedtrap Crasher Array
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    6,737

    Default

    This license plate issue is pretty gnarly. Way too much reflectivity from that thing to even try and take a chance with it on the front end. The rear plate you generally have to use because of the opportunities law enforcement will have to give it close inspection (Tizzy excepted because he's a stealth freak of nature). Case in Point: When we tested our jammers last Spring SpeedDemon was very stealthy but still caught a PunchThru on his single head LPP because the operator probably caught a piece of his "state issue" plate he keeps on his dashboard. So in my opinion if your serious about reducing forward reflectivity the state issue plate has got to go.

    The CR8APL8 looks fake up close but with a plate cover it will easily pass casual inspection. I think in the final analysis all illusions are a form of diversion. The front plate is like the magicians fake thumb. It only looks fake when you know what it is and when to look for it.
    Project "BONES" Speed Lab:
    Valentine One, Blinder M47 "All Front Configuration"
    Pro97 Police Scanner
    1 Saves / 3 Strikes as of 8/22/2009
    Estimated saves in U.S. Dollars: $200

  6. #6
    Good Citizen Array
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    133

    Default

    I got crap for my plates while using lasersheild covers from a late night leo. He claimed he couldn't see them when his lights were turned off?!?! Besides that I found if you put some adhesive in the middle of the shield and the plate, it keeps the 2 closer together so you can see the plates more clearly.
    My Toys
    -BEL RX65- mounted high, hardwired w/external speaker
    -Blinder M25 Laser Jammer
    -Brake light toggle
    -Custom control panel with LEDS
    -Uniden BC246T Scanner
    -Laser Shield License Covers

    1/1 M25 saves
    4/5 RX65 saves

  7. #7
    Professional Array
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    To deflectorise a plate :

    You will notice that the letters/numbers are not reflective. Only the background contains those very tiny pigment called ''cataphore'' , which reflects the incidental light to any angle ,not depending the angle of arrival .

    So you apply a flat paint , latex outdoor house paint , of the right color on every reflective surface. Apply meticulously so to render as good as the ''original''.

    You could also color photocopy your plate , apply/replace the real plate , with some kind of weather protection of your own recipe.

    From my tests , the intensity of reflection is cut by 3 to 4 folds .

    http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...il-when-3.html

  8. #8
    Street Lawyer Array
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    719, Colorado
    Posts
    7,114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloi View Post
    To deflectorise a plate :

    You will notice that the letters/numbers are not reflective. Only the background contains those very tiny pigment called ''cataphore'' , which reflects the incidental light to any angle ,not depending the angle of arrival .

    So you apply a flat paint , latex outdoor house paint , of the right color on every reflective surface. Apply meticulously so to render as good as the ''original''.

    You could also color photocopy your plate , apply/replace the real plate , with some kind of weather protection of your own recipe.

    From my tests , the intensity of reflection is cut by 3 to 4 folds .

    http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...il-when-3.html
    yea, don't fly in States like Texas unless you have a personalized plate that is all white, and those plates are not embossed, they are flat, so hard to paint around the numbers, better off with a photocopy in that scenario. The regular/standard embossed plates have a scenic background, so it's not like you can paint them. Tho I see people put stuff around the numbers all the time and you can tell they've applied something to the plate.



    Any statements, opinions, written material, forms or similar written or distributed communications contained in my posts are purely available for informational and educational purposes, and are solely my informed opinion and is not legal advice or a substitute for the advice of an attorney. If you are seeking legal advice regarding your particular situation, please consult a[n] [in]competent attorney in your area. I am not a real attorney and my opinions may not be relevant to your particular situation or the facts of your particular case.

    Spoiler: show

    Blinder HP-905 Dual up front
    Bel STi-R Remote, X OFF, SWS ON, POP ON, RDR OFF, KA 2/3 - 33.8, 5/6 34.7 and 8/9 35.5 ON, all other KA segments off.

    Previous countermeasures:
    2007ish-2014 Sold with vehicle

    Roadmaster VR-3 VRVD640G In-dash DVD/GPS system with Speed/Redlight Camera alerts
    Radioshack Pro-97 Triple-Trunk analog scanner
    Cobra 19 ULTRA III CB Radio w/ Little Wil Antenna
    2009 - 2013 Blinder M25 Jammer 2-head(J16) system up front.

    2008-2009 Whistler XTR-695

    2006-2008 Passport SRX 2 front, 1 back plate (Fried, sent to KustomEagle)

    October 2002-2006 RadioShack Talking 360 Degree Laser/Radar Detector w/VG-2 Guard Cat #22-1682 non-FCC certified


  9. #9
    Professional Array
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    950

    Default

    the original plate:


    color photocopy on fuji paper and laminated
    RED 1999 ACURA INTEGRA GSR STOLEN -- CHICAGO 02/27/08
    VIN JH4DC2391XS002416
    PLATE ILLINOIS 5287412
    Team Integra Markings on Rear Quarterpanel Windows
    REPORT TO 911 IF FOUND

  10. #10
    Speedtrap Crasher Array
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    6,737

    Default Re: For License Plate: Veil vs Laser Shield vs Cr8apl8 vs other?

    Holy ShT! ^! That's a nice lookin car
    Project "BONES" Speed Lab:
    Valentine One, Blinder M47 "All Front Configuration"
    Pro97 Police Scanner
    1 Saves / 3 Strikes as of 8/22/2009
    Estimated saves in U.S. Dollars: $200

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