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  1. #1
    Speed Demon
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    Default Proper way police should use a radar gun?

    Was wondering a few questions about officers who go, "by the book" when using their guns.

    1. When should a police officer use constant on radar, if their gun has the option for instant on?

    2. Is it correct that an officer should keep their gun in stand-by mode (instant on) until they have a (something) history (what's the word?) of a car and then shoot it?

    3. When an officer parks his car for the night, why do I get a reading still...
    a. Did he leave his gun on?
    b. Was he supposed to turn it off?

    4. For a radar gun, what is stationary mode? Always on, instant on, or something else?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Old Timer
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    Default Re: Proper way police should use a radar gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by computersoc
    1. When should a police officer use constant on radar, if their gun has the option for instant on?
    For the most part, constant and instant on can be used interchangeably. Constant on is useful for slowing down traffic (by giving detector users ample warning to slow down), while instant on is used more for speed traps. Also, cops may use constant on when they're being lazy or doing paperwork while monitoring traffic, so they don't have to keep triggering the gun.
    2. Is it correct that an officer should keep their gun in stand-by mode (instant on) until they have a (something) history (what's the word?) of a car and then shoot it?
    It's up to the LEO as to how he uses the radar. He could trigger the radar everytime he sees a car coming, or he could just shoot at cars that look like they're going too fast. The latter method is more sneaky and makes advance detection more difficult. As for tracking history, he's supposed to get that after triggering the radar to confirm the offender's speed before issuing a ticket.
    3. When an officer parks his car for the night, why do I get a reading still...
    a. Did he leave his gun on?
    b. Was he supposed to turn it off?
    He left the gun on. There's no harm in that, unless he leaves it on for a week and drains the battery.
    4. For a radar gun, what is stationary mode? Always on, instant on, or something else
    Stationary mode means the gun (and the officer) is standing still when clocking other cars. For example, when they park in a median and clock traffic. The other mode is mobile mode, where they clock traffic while moving. In this case, the gun has to read the cruiser's speed as well as the oncoming traffic's speed relative to the cruiser and calculate the clocked traffic's actual speed as a difference between the two. Some newer, fancier guns can also clock traffic moving the same direction as the cruiser, either in front of or behind the cruiser.
    If I'm passing you on the right, YOU are in the wrong lane!

    If speed kills, how come I'm still alive?

    Active Countermeasures: V1 3.858, Escort Redline, Beltronics STi-R+, LI Dual 7.1x CPU/8.7 Heads (front)
    Other/Backup Countermeasures: V1 3.813 (loaned to friend), Beltronics Pro RX65 M4 6.3
    Vehicle: 2002 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
    LEO Toys: Kustom Pro Laser II & III
    Encounters/Saves August 2011: Radar 3/1, Laser 0/0


  3. #3
    Speed Demon
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    Default Re: Proper way police should use a radar gun?

    I know some cops around here love to use instant on radar but I few of them use Constant on radar.

  4. #4
    Speed Demon
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    Default

    What is tracking history, and if a cop uses always on, how does he get a tracking history?

    Oh yeah, what are the laws on college security forces giving you a ticket? I never got one, but do you have to pay it? How does that all work? The college I go to has signs up everywhere that says, "radar enforced" but they always leave their guns in constant on mode (Ka band).

    Should the cops turn their radar guns off after they park their car for the night?

  5. #5
    Speed Demon
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by computersoc
    What is tracking history, and if a cop uses always on, how does he get a tracking history?

    Oh yeah, what are the laws on college security forces giving you a ticket? I never got one, but do you have to pay it? How does that all work? The college I go to has signs up everywhere that says, "radar enforced" but they always leave their guns in constant on mode (Ka band).

    Should the cops turn their radar guns off after they park their car for the night?
    I know on some of the newer Ka guns the cops can track up to more then one car at a time but these radars cost mega bucks. Most of the smart cops use low power KA guns around here. My city uses K band like mad and I have seen some cops in my city use KA but for the most part its K band that is being used the most.

  6. #6
    Old Timer
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    Default

    "Tracking history" simply means the officer is supposed to track the speeding car long enough to determine that it really is traveling at the alleged speed. With radar, they would keep the gun triggered to confirm the speed for several seconds, or they would establish the speed visually. Or, they may pace the car for a mile or so before pulling them over, to establish the history that way.

    One of the reasons that POP shouldn't be used to issue tickets is because the brief pulse doesn't establish any tracking history. If they clock a car with POP, they're supposed to switch to regular instant-on to establish the history before pulling the car over.

    I don't know how they establish tracking history with laser. Maybe clock the speeding car more than once, or keep the laser on the car for a few seconds? Perhaps a real LEO could chime in.
    If I'm passing you on the right, YOU are in the wrong lane!

    If speed kills, how come I'm still alive?

    Active Countermeasures: V1 3.858, Escort Redline, Beltronics STi-R+, LI Dual 7.1x CPU/8.7 Heads (front)
    Other/Backup Countermeasures: V1 3.813 (loaned to friend), Beltronics Pro RX65 M4 6.3
    Vehicle: 2002 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
    LEO Toys: Kustom Pro Laser II & III
    Encounters/Saves August 2011: Radar 3/1, Laser 0/0


  7. #7
    Suf Daddy
    Guest

    Default Pretty close

    Tracking history is what they need to establish so their reading will hold up in court.
    FIRST:
    the officer is supposed to visually estimate your speed to see if you are speeding (part of the "history")
    Secondly the officer, to verify his/her hunch your speeding, used the radar unit to "verify" your speed.

    I do have this LIDAR THEORY of OPERATION manual which is listed at this link: https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/cla...ent_Manual.pdf
    Page 7:
    Enforcement considerations:
    1. Tracking History.
    a. Visual speed estimation.
    b. Target acquisition tone
    c. Target Speed Display
    and touches again on it
    in the "Case Preparation and Testifying in Court" section on page 18:

    "If the prosecution offers a LIDAR (or Radar) speed measurement as evidence of an offense, it must be proven that the LIDAR (RADAR) speed measurement was obtained in compliance with accepted operating procedures by establishing that:
    - Lidar (radar) worked properly.
    - Instruments accuracy was verified with an appropriate method BOTH before and after the tour of duty.
    - Operator was properly qualified and trained."
    <<<<TRACKING HISTORY>>>> point below...............
    "- There was a visual observation of the violation and an initial speed estimate based on that observation.
    -The Lidar (Radar) speed measurement was taken when the vehicle was within the operational range and that the measurement was reasonably close to the visual estimate"

    Once that clocking with radar is going on, different guidelines (IACP - Intnational Assoc., of Chiefs of Police)for how long the reading should be made.........2-3 seconds, verfying the vehicle speed and an audio tone meaning your vehicle is in the beam path. Doppler Audio is a white noise sound until a moving object passes thru the beam and is reflected back to the radar unit at a different frequency......Hence the "tone".................
    That and prior to the reading the unit should be calibrated / checked out with the internal controls (ICT internal Calibration Test) or similar function and the tuning forks provided with the unit.........
    Trust me, NO ONE does all this while using the unit.
    The audio button has a squelch/mute button and a volume control to turn it down or off. The sound is so annoying, the officer could apply for disability compensation from being subjected to it.

    You'd be amazed at how many readings come off the fringe of the beam.
    Clocking traffic from a highway on ramp all the passing traffic registers a speed, but only the on ramp traffic produced an audio doppler shift (TONE) back to the unit. Kustom Hawk, in stationary mode, defroster off. Yes a BTDT.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpatz
    "Tracking history" simply means the officer is supposed to track the speeding car long enough to determine that it really is traveling at the alleged speed. With radar, they would keep the gun triggered to confirm the speed for several seconds, or they would establish the speed visually. Or, they may pace the car for a mile or so before pulling them over, to establish the history that way.
    This quote below is correct.
    The MPH speedgun operators manual (which I can't find right now) says the POP can't be used for a reading. The operator must use the transmiter to obtain a traditional reading.

    One of the reasons that POP shouldn't be used to issue tickets is because the brief pulse doesn't establish any tracking history. If they clock a car with POP, they're supposed to switch to regular instant-on to establish the history before pulling the car over.
    The POP and LIDAR bursts are so short, less than a second, I have a question of the "tracking history" too.
    The V1 radar detector sight (http://www.valentine1.com/) has some POP findings in simple terms.......

    I've heard that the electronics are overclocked or run faster than they are designed for when they (POP guns) send out the 60millisecond radar burst for that POP reading. The intent is to hit you so fast your detector doesn't react and to obtain a reading.........

    LOOKS like Ray said it best:
    http://www.radarbusters.com/support/...op-testing.asp
    "POP mode works by sending out a quick burst of pulse radar at approximately 67 milliseconds. MPH Industries admits that while in this mode, that the displayed speed of a vehicle may not be accurate. They recommend that the officer only use this mode to obtain an estimate of speed from the target vehicle. And then switch to normal mode to obtain the exact speed.

    However, Radar Roy has spoken to some law enforcement officers that have had the opportunity to use this technology, and there was never any specific training from the officer's agency and/or the manufacture on the proper use of the POP mode.

    When a department obtains new equipment, they often send it to the field officers and expect them to spend the time reading the operating manual. When you get a new TV or DVD, how"

    I don't know how they establish tracking history with laser. Maybe clock the speeding car more than once, or keep the laser on the car for a few seconds? Perhaps a real LEO could chime in.

  8. #8
    Suf Daddy
    Guest

    Default POP

    POP
    Jim sayz:
    http://www.radardetector.net/New-Pop...ence-4173t.php
    Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Interesting question...

    First, here's what it says directly from the MPH manual, copyright 2002:
    Manual wrote:
    "POP mode works in all radar modes: stationary, opposite direction moving mode, and same direction moving mode. In same direction moving mode, the status of the Faster/Slower must be correct for the radar to do the proper math, which is the same as when the radar is not in POP mode. Fastest vehicle mode is disabled when the radar is in POP mode."


    Here's what the 2002 SML test said:
    2002 SML Test wrote:
    New for us was the announcement by MPH of a moving POP mode. It was at the test....The MPH representative confirmed the Bee III POP mode can now be operated in the moving mode as well as the stationary mode. Prior to this announcement, the Bee III could only be operated in the stationary mode."


    But interestingly, here's what the 2004 and 2005 SML tests said:
    2004 SML Test wrote:
    The manual states clearly POP may not be used to issue speeding tickets as it cannot be locked and can only be used in the stationary mode.

    2005 SML Test wrote:
    POP may not be used in the moving radar mode.




    This leaves us with a couple of possible conclusions:

    -At one time, MPH was selling units with POP that could be used in moving mode, but this changed sometime after 2002.

    OR

    -POP can be used in the moving mode, it has been this way since '02 and the SML tests in '04 and '05 are citing old information.

    Either way, it appears that there are some units out there on the road that have POP that can be used in moving mode.

    So my answer would have to be YES, POP can be used in moving mode, unless I see evidence otherwise.

    Jim

  9. #9
    Speed Demon
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    Default

    What are the laws on college security forces giving you a ticket? I never got one, but do you have to pay it? How does that all work? The college I go to has signs up everywhere that says, "radar enforced" but they always leave their guns in constant on mode (Ka band). Never have seen them use instant on. Works good for when I need to ask if I can park in a certain lot... just wait for a beep and then you see a cop 5 seconds later.

 

 

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