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  1. #1
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    Default V-1 does strange things with a handheld gun next to it?

    Okay,
    as some of you know i got a handheld k-band gun for my tests of the V-1 modes.
    Well i was playing with the handheld in my truck and my V-1 was doing some strange things which i wanted to share for comments.

    When i triggered the gun, the V-1 went crazy, (which it better), but here's the weird thing.
    While parked or moving if i triggered the gun to the front, it would show 1 or 2 k band hits on the bogey counter, occasionally flashing 3. Now i'm thinking the rear antenna is picking up signals, and thinks it's another source. this could explain why on an occassion or two the counter has shown 2 hits coming from 1 moving encounter.
    However, if i triggered it pointing towards the rear of my vehicle, and hold it, it starts at 1, then goes to 2 or 3, then sometimes 4 (i even got it to show 5 once or twice) and also shows a ka alert, flashing the k as the strongest.
    I don't know why it does this, but this could explain people who have gotten the wrong band id's.

    Now here's where it gets stranger.
    i borrowed my old 8500 back to compare this to.
    With the V-1 off, if i do the same test, the 8500 shows only 1 k band alert. (yes, it's in EXP meter mode).
    Now, with both on, i can get the V-1 to not only show the same as above, but with the 8500 next to it and on, it also shows the ku light. strange.
    the 8500 still only shows the 1 k band hit. this test is easily repeatable.

    Now with thew V-1 off, i put the 8500 in the mode that shows the band frequency. it would show 24.157 (maybe 24.156) and occasionally show 24.126 (maybe 24.127). either way it shows some slight differences in my vehicle. This would go to show that using band id for a particular gun doesn't work so well. here's why. If i take the 8500 and handheld to my buddy's truck, the 8500 shows 24.150 no matter which way i would face it or move it. and when switching back to EXP meter, it still showed only 1 band hit.
    Now since i'm concealed, i didn't want to take out my V-1 to test in his vehicle.

    Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this? Professor?

  2. #2
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    Hey Racer x what is your thoughts on the passport 7500??? I am looking to upgrade from the one I have is the detection range on the 7500 all that bad?? I have only got stopped once while using this unit instant on got me. Just wandering your thoughts!!!!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: V-1 does strange things with a handheld gun next to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RacerX
    When i triggered the gun, the V-1 went crazy, (which it better), but here's the weird thing.
    While parked or moving if i triggered the gun to the front, it would show 1 or 2 k band hits on the bogey counter, occasionally flashing 3. Now i'm thinking the rear antenna is picking up signals, and thinks it's another source. this could explain why on an occassion or two the counter has shown 2 hits coming from 1 moving encounter.
    However, if i triggered it pointing towards the rear of my vehicle, and hold it, it starts at 1, then goes to 2 or 3, then sometimes 4 (i even got it to show 5 once or twice) and also shows a ka alert, flashing the k as the strongest.
    I don't know why it does this, but this could explain people who have gotten the wrong band id's.
    I can verify this, I get the same thing on the V1 at very close range with a K-Band gun.
    If I do it just right, I can even peg the bogey counter at "9". I actually used a K-band radar gun to get this picture when I was developing my software:


    With the V1, BOTH antennas will be picking up a lot of signal at close range like that, no matter which way you point the radar gun (even if the rear or side arrow doesn't light etc) . I don't know what algorithms the V1 uses to determine multiple sources etc, but I would bet that the rear antenna is factored into the equation somehow. At close range it seems that a lot of reflections will be interpreted as another radar source.

    Funky stuff happens with radar at close range...

    Quote Originally Posted by RacerX
    Now here's where it gets stranger.
    i borrowed my old 8500 back to compare this to.
    With the V-1 off, if i do the same test, the 8500 shows only 1 k band alert. (yes, it's in EXP meter mode).
    Now, with both on, i can get the V-1 to not only show the same as above, but with the 8500 next to it and on, it also shows the ku light. strange.
    the 8500 still only shows the 1 k band hit. this test is easily repeatable.
    Sounds like the Ku light is no doubt due to some kind of interference from the X50.
    I don't believe that the X50's 1st LO sweeps to 13.45 GHz. However, when they are very close together you might not only have interference from the first LO, but also interference from mixer products as well (which might be the case here but I'm only guessing)... Funky stuff happens with radar at close range...


    Quote Originally Posted by RacerX
    Now with thew V-1 off, i put the 8500 in the mode that shows the band frequency. it would show 24.157 (maybe 24.156) and occasionally show 24.126 (maybe 24.127). either way it shows some slight differences in my vehicle. This would go to show that using band id for a particular gun doesn't work so well. here's why. If i take the 8500 and handheld to my buddy's truck, the 8500 shows 24.150 no matter which way i would face it or move it. and when switching back to EXP meter, it still showed only 1 band hit.
    Now since i'm concealed, i didn't want to take out my V-1 to test in his vehicle.

    Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this? Professor?
    It definitely isn't accurate to three decimal places like it appears, and different frequency readings can occur from the same source for a number of reasons. I think it is pretty good for what it is: a feature built into a $300 radar detector, but it is far from the functionality of a $1000 freq counter. As for being useful, I think that the tech display is good enough to get a good idea of what models of Ka radar are being used in your area. IMHO to rely on it to somehow attempt to determine if an alert is false is just begging for a ticket. People are much better off running the expert meter in situations with a lot of false alert sources.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Professor Jim

  4. #4

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    radar is basically radio waves; there might be just enough reflectivity in the seats of the car, for example, to slow the wave down changing its frequency enough for the v1 to think its another source.

    or maybe what's happening is the freq oscillator in the gun isn't producing a constant frequency so it goes up and down the spectrum?

    either way i think we can all agree that testing at close range is not very practical; valentine has mentioned that numerous times.

  5. #5
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    fireant,
    How long have you had it?
    i had the 7500 when it first came out years ago. i noticed the Escort website now lists the 7500s. The range on it was decent if i remember correctly, but it wasn't one of those wow, "the range on this is great".

    If it's a fairly new one then i think you would be fine. if it's one of the originals and your budget will allow it, then you may want to consider upgrading.
    If x and k band are your only threats, then you may be fine for now, but if newer ka (and laser somewhat) is a problem, it may be time to save for the upgrade to one of the big 3.

    Maybe if someone here still has one to compare with an 8500 or x50 they can add to this.


    Professor,
    that is too funny that you did the same thing to get that screenshot for the software.

    Sounds like the Ku light is no doubt due to some kind of interference from the X50.
    I don't believe that the X50's 1st LO sweeps to 13.45 GHz. However, when they are very close together you might not only have interference from the first LO, but also interference from mixer products as well (which might be the case here but I'm only guessing)...
    Since i have/had the 8500 non x-50 i wonder if they changed the 1st LO or if it's the same?

    Also, i just went outside to do a little further experimentation.
    If i shut off the rear antenna, in Adv. Logic mode i can get a full on ka alert with 1 count on the counter. Back to "A" mode and i get as above. Weird.
    I may have to add that to my tests, since it seems like i lost a lot of "range" when disabling that in Adv. Logic mode.
    With a full front blast it still seems to identify a side or rear warning, so i don't think option "G" fully shuts it off, but it does cut down a lot.

    It seems like having it "mute" the rear only on k band would do just that, but it also cuts way down on those multiple signals, not to mention then allowing a full ka alert.
    Since i don't know much about LO's and the dynamics, i wonder if the two antennas have a slightly different frequency or something so they don't interfere with each other.

  6. #6
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    I got the 7500 over three years ago for a gift Ka is not a real big threat but on the increase waiting to see this summers test results on Ku although not in Oklahoma would like a detector that would pick it up good don't want to have to upgrade to quick again. Leaning toward the vector 995 or rx 65 but keep thinking something better may be tested this summer.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: V-1 does strange things with a handheld gun next to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by RacerX
    Okay,
    as some of you know i got a handheld k-band gun for my tests of the V-1 modes.
    Well i was playing with the handheld in my truck and my V-1 was doing some strange things which i wanted to share for comments.

    When i triggered the gun, the V-1 went crazy, (which it better), but here's the weird thing.
    While parked or moving if i triggered the gun to the front, it would show 1 or 2 k band hits on the bogey counter, occasionally flashing 3. Now i'm thinking the rear antenna is picking up signals, and thinks it's another source. this could explain why on an occassion or two the counter has shown 2 hits coming from 1 moving encounter.
    However, if i triggered it pointing towards the rear of my vehicle, and hold it, it starts at 1, then goes to 2 or 3, then sometimes 4 (i even got it to show 5 once or twice) and also shows a ka alert, flashing the k as the strongest.
    I don't know why it does this, but this could explain people who have gotten the wrong band id's.
    Thank goodness it happened to someone else I thought I was going crazy when I sent mine back to VR they could not repeat the problem.
    It is defiantly ghosting I think it also happeded with Ka. and a junk radar detector.

  8. #8
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    Thank goodness it happened to someone else I thought I was going crazy when I sent mine back to VR they could not repeat the problem.
    It is defiantly ghosting I think it also happeded with Ka. and a junk radar detector.
    No, it was probably the V-1. :wink:

    Now if they said they couldn't duplicate it, i'm wondering where/how they tested it. If they did it in a large warehouse, or a room that didn't reflect some of the signals, maybe that's why? Maybe if they put it in a car and fired up a gun it would have been repeatable due to the closed space. Who knows.
    Overall I'm very happy with it (except for the lack of that automute), but i do think it has some quirks to it that the book (outdated) and the website don't discuss. Such as option "G' which the programming instructions say will "mute all rear k band alerts". The thing is it doesn't just not alert with audio, it doesn't flash any warning at all, unless the front is picking it up, then it will flash the sides and back arrows.

    Anyway, I think i'll put the radar gun in another car at various distances to see how far away it is before it alerts to the single alert. Also when i do my test, i'll also document any strange behaviors.
    As for the ghosting, who knows. Maybe its a quirk/flaw that can't be easily fixed 100% due to the proximity of the two internal antennas, or because of two antennas it could happen on occassion due to reflections in a particular vehicle or driving situation.


    fireant,
    It sounds like you are fine with what you have. I'd see what comes out this summer at the big test. Then we should find out more about the "brand x" detector.
    As for ku, here's my personal opinion. If it does come out, the x-50 will add it, and the rx-65 and V-1 will update it on theirs. I know the V-1 doesn't do any kind of filtering for ku band, and since i haven't seen any ku used out here, all the ku alerts so far have been falses.
    I hope this helps.

  9. #9
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    I would like to think it just might be RFI as remember detectors where not made to have a radar gun being used right next to it and also keep in mind this is the real reason why I don't like the lab test idea.
    Yeah, i was wondering that myself, but i got a chance to play with it a little more this weekend and do some tests, and i can duplicate that from about 30 feet away, with the radar gun in a different vehicle.
    Once i finish my testing i'll have a better idea about this. I don't know if mine is just a bit more sensitive, or if it's mounting location, vehicle type, or what. Oddly enough in some impromptu testing, it seems like my ka range is better, but i need to test that in the same locations that i got a good warning on to find out.
    I picked up a 3.5 mile instant on warning from a moving unit coming towards me this weekend, which gives me around a 6-7 mile warning. nice.

    I don't think that in the "real world" this is as big of an issue. it seems that the longer the gun is on, the more the V-1 "ghosts" multiple signals. but in the moving tests so far, that didn't seem to be the case. since all of these things were happening while i was stopped.
    Either way, once i start the official test, i'll document any anomalies.

  10. #10
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    The test i'm doing is on the 3 modes and enabling the "automute k band feature" that i posted in the review section. I was doing some impromptu testing to make sure that my test parameters are right. I'm going to adjust a few things, and add it to the post over there, and then i'll post the test results after i do it also.
    Here's the link.
    http://www.radardetector.net/Testing...nput.-721t.php

    Enabling the automute feature in "L" mode, i can leave POP enabled and my V-1 is as quiet as the 8500 around town here, so it's not so much an issue of my V-1 falsing more since i can run them about equal, i'm curious to see how much range or early warning i may lose keeping it in "L" mode on the highway. I decided to make it more of an official test, so i could share my findings for those interested.

 

 

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