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Thread: Something weird

  1. #1
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    Default Something weird

    Something weird happened today. Did some of you guys had a problem of the the V1 not picking up K band police radar once in a while? I had 3 radars at the same time for 10 days now and the V1 was flawless for 9 days until this thing happened tonight at around 7 o'clock. This morning it was fine and was picking up police radar signals in K band very well. When i was approching a traffic light with lights in red, both the RX65 and X50 gave me a k band alert with signal strength's of 1 and 2 respectively. As i was getting closer to the traffic light, the signal strengths increased. Both the Rx65 and X50 were mounted low in the middle and the V1 on top just above the rear view mirror. I have a 5% tint on the top of the windshield and thought it can be a factor. So i looked up at my V1 to find out where the radar source was by looking at the arrows but there was no arrows lighting up and no signal strength showing up. It was basically zero. The setup was in logic mode with little L. I came to a stop on the left lane ready to make a left turn once the green light lits up. The signal was still getting stronger and stronger in both the belscorts's as the opposite side was green with cars going the opposite way and other cars making a left turn on the other side. I finally saw the police car making a left turn after 4 cars doing it. This was in a city setting and going home driving on an interstate highway, it duplicated the same alert again with the belscort's and nothing showing up in the V1. By this time i already move the V1 below the tinted area to have less obstruction. On my way home, i always pass by this BP gas station with automatic door, and all 3 RD's alerted me with K band as i passed by.

    Have you V1 owners experienced this thing happening to you with the K band not alerting police radar? If you have only the V1 in your car, then you won't be able to know. This is not a made up story and was a true experience tonight. I have the latest V1 version.

  2. #2
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    This is odd, I had mine not alert to K band last week, I took it into VR and they said it "fell out of tune" Well when was I supposed to find this out? When I get a ticket? This was my experiance....

    What version/ software version do you have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethy

    What version/ software version do you have?
    I have the 3.825, the latest version and i don't think it would be out of tune within that brief period of using it. Just got it last monday july 25th. I'm going to review radar roy's site with regards to testing the radars with K band.

    I read your experience and is almost similar to yours except that mine did it twice tonight in different locations - 1 in city and on interstate highway. I had my V1 X band disabled and was in logic mode. I thought i'm the only one who experienced it and i was really having doubts whether i have to post it in this section or not afraid of being targeted by V1 owners. But i couldn't help myself because it can lead to getting a citation.

  4. #4
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    My 825 works just fine on all bands check your power

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghz1
    My 825 works just fine on all bands check your power
    Power was on with the little L showing up. The thing here is that if you only have the V1 in your car, you'll never know that this " odd" thing happens. Try using another radar detector at the same time using both for at least 2 weeks. I have been using all 3 for the last 10 days.

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    Don't run multiple detectors in the same vehicle, otherwise you're just asking for stuff like this to happen. A few people might say it is OK, but this is actually one of the few points where even Mike Valentine and Craig Peterson agree. If you want to know why, I can go into all kinds of technical reasons if you like, or just search for my old posts on the subject.

    Jim

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    Are you saying running multiple detectors in a car can damage eachother?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbonzzz
    Don't run multiple detectors in the same vehicle, otherwise you're just asking for stuff like this to happen. A few people might say it is OK, but this is actually one of the few points where even Mike Valentine and Craig Peterson agree. If you want to know why, I can go into all kinds of technical reasons if you like, or just search for my old posts on the subject.

    Jim
    I don't understand why multiple radars cannot be used to test reception of a radar gun. I have read Mr. V's reasons for it in his web site and i also don't put too much dent to what his saying if there's only 1 or 2 guys you have to believe in. I need more proof to it with solid facts. A good example is with this case. How will you know if the V1 works 100% of the time if you have no comparison? You will never know and that's basic common sense. Remember, this is real world testing and not in the lab. I'm no engineer in this field and i'm not here to bash any brand specially the V1. I'm posting this to find "answers" to my question specially to what happened last night. I would appreciate it if you can elaborate more on your part ragarding wny you can't use multiple radars in your car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethy
    Are you saying running multiple detectors in a car can damage eachother?
    No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azonehits
    I would appreciate it if you can elaborate more on your part ragarding wny you can't use multiple radars in your car.
    Just because two detectors don't set each other off doesn't mean that they arent interfering with each other. I'm sure many people have see the page on the Valentine site about this:
    http://www.valentine1.com/lab/DoItYourself.asp

    I have seen this "rule of thumb" being ignored more and more lately.

    Everyone knows that sometimes other detectors will cause falses, right?
    What is not so obvious, is during their regular sweep, most detectors are also scanning for frequencies that if detected, will BLOCK or PREVENT an alert to real police radar.

    For Ka falses, this usually comes from the LO of the other detector producing a harmonic in the Ka band. Detector makers have come up with a novel scheme to filter these falses: If the detector sees Ka radar, and ALSO sees a first or second harmonic that would come from another detector, the alert is blocked, since real police radar does not produce these harmonics like the other detectors do. Just about all of todays detectors use this scheme in some way or another.

    OK here's how it works from what I understand:

    I won't pretend that I know all of the elaborate methods detectors use to function, because I don't. Detectors receive by mixing the signals down to lower frequencies where regular electronics can easily deal with the signal. They use the first oscillator and it's harmonics to mix with incoming signals like so:

    Assuming a 1st LO frequency of 11.5583 GHz:

    X-Band
    11.558 GHz - 10.525 GHz = 1.033 GHz

    K-Band
    11.558 GHz * 2 = 23.116 GHz.
    24.150 Ghz - 23.116 Ghz = 1.034 GHz

    Ka Band
    11.558 Ghz * 3 = 34.764
    34.764 is right around the center of the Ka band



    So, say a detector is receiving Ka at 34.7 Ghz, and it ALSO sees the 2nd harmonic at 11.558 GHz, or the third harmonic at 23.116 Ghz, (or both!), it would possibly suppress the alert. Usually the detectors also comare signal levels etc so that if the Ka passes a certain threshold in comparison to the harmonic, it will still alert anyway. However, with another detector in the same vehicle, the harmonic will always be very strong compared to the received radar. The detectors also consider a time frame, the blocking signal does not need to be poresent at the same time as the police radar signal in order to block it, sometimes if the blocking signal is seen within 10 seconds etc before the police radar it will block the alert.

    I believe that this is how the "J" feature works with the V1. If it sees the harmonic at the SAME TIME or BEFORE he Ka, then it doesn't alert at all. If it sees it AFTER the Ka, then it initially alerts to the Ka (to be safe, it could be police radar!) but if the alert is already in progress and it sees the harmonic, it terminates the alert with a "J"...

    And it is even more complex than this: the illustration above is only the center frequencies. The first LO will be sweeping too, and different detectors use countless different schemes to sweep the LO when looking for police radar, AND these harmonics that are the footprint of an interfering signal. There is also the second and third local oscillators, and also mixer products that will leak from the detector. Most of the tinme this doesn't matter, except when two detectors are operated in close proximity.

    That is just ONE EXAMPLE of why you shouldn't run two detectors together.


    Another reason: with a microwave oscillator operating in close proximity, it likely raises the "noise floor" in different bands. The detectors use singal averaging between multiple sweeps to identify a threat-level signal, so raising the noise floor would have the effect of making it so that a stronger signal would be necessary for the detector to be able to pick out radar signals from the noise.

    Even enclosing the detectors in metal isn't going to prevent this, since a lot of the leakage comes from the antenna.

    It might be OK on some bands/frequencies but not others, but there is no way to be sure when it is a problem and when it isn't. It also might be OK unless the frequency sweeps of the different detectors coincide in a certain way part of the time.

    You'll hear some people say that they've done run two together for a long time with no problems, but how do they know? (That is like saying that they drove by a cop with an RMR jammer, so it MUST work)

    So bottom line: don't run two detectors in the same vehicle, especially if you are comparing performance. SML and Craig Peterson test with only detector on at a time for a reason, Guys of LIDAR will be testing this way too!

    You can have good results or you can have easy results. Detector testing has never been easy.

    Jim

 

 

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