Veil on Weathered Headlights

[Victor]

Originally Posted by focalcivic

Wow, 400 is extreme, I bet you had a ton of scratches at first.

Not really. Given the staining I had on my headlights I wanted to make sure that I got rid of it completely, or as completely as possible. That was the main reason for using the 400 grit.

[JDS]

I started with 400 grit, and then went to 1000 grit, same as him (except I didn't have any 600 available).

[reefer21]

veil guy

i have applied it to my plates (front & rear) but the plates look very Grey/dirty. is it legal to apply in Texas.

[Rebmemmurof]

Hi everyone,

I’ve read this thread with great interest as I had a similar experience to Victor’s. I’m hoping this post will be as helpful to someone as others’ posts have been to me in the short time I’ve been frequenting this forum. I’ll apologize in advance for the poor quality of the accompanying photos. My cell phone camera was the best I could do. I think you’ll be able to get the gist of the issue.

So you’ll have a point of reference, my vehicle is six years old. It has VERY low miles for its age (I had a really short commute) but it hasn’t been garaged. It’s been exposed to the daily elements as well as OH winters with the salty roads and all that goes with that.

My initial VEIL application was a mess, and I’m being charitable. I wasn’t that happy with the way it looked when I put it on but chalked it up to my own inexperience with the product. The surface was rough and it had a mottled appearance, with what looked like runs in places or where VEIL had sort of beaded up, creating a wavy line across the lens. There were also light and dark areas as well as obvious brushstrokes. Light output was noticeably diminished too, more than I expected. My impression was that I had put it on too thickly, however when I read about the staining problem I started thinking that might be at least a partial cause of my dissatisfaction.

With VEIL:
[


This weekend I decided to unVEIL the car and redo it. I used denatured alcohol as some had recommended and VEIL came right off. At that point the problem was quite evident: I had severe staining on my lenses. I was surprised as I would not have considered my lenses to be “weathered”, at least in appearance. Prior to VEIL they were quite clear and there was no sign of yellowing or haziness, at least to me. There was significant staining at the top of each lens, on the side by the blinker and various other points on the face. There were also circular patterns on both lenses that clearly corresponded to each headlamp: two on the driver’s side but oddly only one on the passenger.

UnVEILed:



Close-up of Circular "Burn Mark":


The stained areas felt rougher than the areas where VEIL came up cleanly. I'm not sure if this was a characteristic of the plastic before VEIL, or if it was VEIL causing it. Regardless, thanks to Victor and JDS I knew the solution: wetsanding.

Victor’s explanation of how he fixed his lenses was very helpful and pointed me in the right direction but I was reluctant to attempt the project at all because I'm not really all that handy. I did a little research and found a helpful link here: How To: Polish Fogged Over Headlights - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

Those Honda lenses are very similar in construction to mine but preVEIL mine were pristine by comparison. I was leery of 400 grit but I didn’t think 1500 would handle the staining effectively so I compromised and went with 800. The plan was to finish with 1000 grit, an application of PlastX and a new coat of VEIL. Since that worked for Victor and I wasn't going to use 400 I thought it would for me as well. The stained VEIL came off without too much trouble but after the 1000 and PlastX application my lenses were very cloudy. It was as if there was a film on them that I couldn’t remove.

Foggy lens:


To make a long and exasperating story short, after a few more futile attempts to improve clarity, I bought a headlight restoration kit at Autozone. They have a helpful online instruction video here:
Untitled

The solution proved to be more sanding with ever finer sandpaper followed by a couple of applications of plastic polish, the key being to sand perpendicularly to the previous grade. For example, I went horizontally side to side across the face of the lens with the 1000 grit, so with the 1500 I sanded vertically top to bottom. I followed this alternating pattern with each successive sanding. I also made sure to keep everything plenty wet.

Here is everything I did to finally achieve a satisfactory result:
800 grit sandpaper to remove VEIL stains and rough areas
1000 grit sandpaper (included in Permatex kit)
1500 grit (included in Permatex kit)
2000 grit (included in Permatex kit)
2500 grit (included in Permatex kit)
Permatex plastic polish (included in Permatex kit)
Meguiar’s PlastX, 2 applications

New VEIL

In the course of trying to find a solution to my problem I ran across an interesting article here:
Toyota Headlamp Restoration - Sport Compact Car Magazine

I learned that headlight lenses today have a UV protective coating on them, and over time it wears away. I think that the staining I experienced occurred in areas where that coating had worn away from exposure.

I have a few thoughts for someone thinking about installing VEIL. Even if you think your headlights LOOK okay, they may not be. Unless your vehicle is relatively new (or at least your headlights are) you should consider doing some prep work BEFORE putting VEIL on your lights. I would suggest using something like the Permatex kit I used, or at least some PlastX or a similar product before putting on VEIL. I got the kit at Autozone for around $16. You could make your own “kit” as well following the materials list above. I’m not sure if the Permatex plastic polish is available separately from the kit or not but if you use PlastX you shouldn’t need it. I also saw a 3M kit there that was a little more deluxe. It had some buffing wheels of various grades designed to be used with a drill. That was my “nuclear” option. It was only a little more than the Permatex kit. If you’re in doubt about the condition of your lenses but don’t want to try sanding etc., it’s probably a good idea to VEIL one side only and see how it turns out. That way if you have a problem you’ll only have one problem headlight instead of two. Also if you do any sanding by hand I'd recommend NOT using a block, just your hand/fingers. The sandpaper will follow the curves of the lens much better that way.

Happily the new coat of VEIL is on and it looks MUCH better than before. My main concern with it now is that I may have gotten it too thin. I will get some pics up tomorrow when it will be drier if anyone wants to see them and if I can get some of decent quality.

In conclusion, thank you JDS and Victor for your helpful tips on resolving this problem. Happy VEILing and motoring to all.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Awesome post! Thank you!

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Rebmemmurof

Hi everyone,

I’ve read this thread with great interest as I had a similar experience to Victor’s. I’m hoping this post will be as helpful to someone as others’ posts have been to me in the short time I’ve been frequenting this forum. I’ll apologize in advance for the poor quality of the accompanying photos. My cell phone camera was the best I could do. I think you’ll be able to get the gist of the issue.

So you’ll have a point of reference, my vehicle is six years old. It has VERY low miles for its age (I had a really short commute) but it hasn’t been garaged. It’s been exposed to the daily elements as well as OH winters with the salty roads and all that goes with that.

My initial VEIL application was a mess, and I’m being charitable. I wasn’t that happy with the way it looked when I put it on but chalked it up to my own inexperience with the product. The surface was rough and it had a mottled appearance, with what looked like runs in places or where VEIL had sort of beaded up, creating a wavy line across the lens. There were also light and dark areas as well as obvious brushstrokes. Light output was noticeably diminished too, more than I expected. My impression was that I had put it on too thickly, however when I read about the staining problem I started thinking that might be at least a partial cause of my dissatisfaction.

With VEIL:
[


This weekend I decided to unVEIL the car and redo it. I used denatured alcohol as some had recommended and VEIL came right off. At that point the problem was quite evident: I had severe staining on my lenses. I was surprised as I would not have considered my lenses to be “weathered”, at least in appearance. Prior to VEIL they were quite clear and there was no sign of yellowing or haziness, at least to me. There was significant staining at the top of each lens, on the side by the blinker and various other points on the face. There were also circular patterns on both lenses that clearly corresponded to each headlamp: two on the driver’s side but oddly only one on the passenger.

UnVEILed:



Close-up of Circular "Burn Mark":


The stained areas felt rougher than the areas where VEIL came up cleanly. I'm not sure if this was a characteristic of the plastic before VEIL, or if it was VEIL causing it. Regardless, thanks to Victor and JDS I knew the solution: wetsanding.

Victor’s explanation of how he fixed his lenses was very helpful and pointed me in the right direction but I was reluctant to attempt the project at all because I'm not really all that handy. I did a little research and found a helpful link here: How To: Polish Fogged Over Headlights - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

Those Honda lenses are very similar in construction to mine but preVEIL mine were pristine by comparison. I was leery of 400 grit but I didn’t think 1500 would handle the staining effectively so I compromised and went with 800. The plan was to finish with 1000 grit, an application of PlastX and a new coat of VEIL. Since that worked for Victor and I wasn't going to use 400 I thought it would for me as well. The stained VEIL came off without too much trouble but after the 1000 and PlastX application my lenses were very cloudy. It was as if there was a film on them that I couldn’t remove.

Foggy lens:


To make a long and exasperating story short, after a few more futile attempts to improve clarity, I bought a headlight restoration kit at Autozone. They have a helpful online instruction video here:
Untitled

The solution proved to be more sanding with ever finer sandpaper followed by a couple of applications of plastic polish, the key being to sand perpendicularly to the previous grade. For example, I went horizontally side to side across the face of the lens with the 1000 grit, so with the 1500 I sanded vertically top to bottom. I followed this alternating pattern with each successive sanding. I also made sure to keep everything plenty wet.

Here is everything I did to finally achieve a satisfactory result:
800 grit sandpaper to remove VEIL stains and rough areas
1000 grit sandpaper (included in Permatex kit)
1500 grit (included in Permatex kit)
2000 grit (included in Permatex kit)
2500 grit (included in Permatex kit)
Permatex plastic polish (included in Permatex kit)
Meguiar’s PlastX, 2 applications

New VEIL

In the course of trying to find a solution to my problem I ran across an interesting article here:
Toyota Headlamp Restoration - Sport Compact Car Magazine

I learned that headlight lenses today have a UV protective coating on them, and over time it wears away. I think that the staining I experienced occurred in areas where that coating had worn away from exposure.

I have a few thoughts for someone thinking about installing VEIL. Even if you think your headlights LOOK okay, they may not be. Unless your vehicle is relatively new (or at least your headlights are) you should consider doing some prep work BEFORE putting VEIL on your lights. I would suggest using something like the Permatex kit I used, or at least some PlastX or a similar product before putting on VEIL. I got the kit at Autozone for around $16. You could make your own “kit” as well following the materials list above. I’m not sure if the Permatex plastic polish is available separately from the kit or not but if you use PlastX you shouldn’t need it. I also saw a 3M kit there that was a little more deluxe. It had some buffing wheels of various grades designed to be used with a drill. That was my “nuclear” option. It was only a little more than the Permatex kit. If you’re in doubt about the condition of your lenses but don’t want to try sanding etc., it’s probably a good idea to VEIL one side only and see how it turns out. That way if you have a problem you’ll only have one problem headlight instead of two. Also if you do any sanding by hand I'd recommend NOT using a block, just your hand/fingers. The sandpaper will follow the curves of the lens much better that way.

Happily the new coat of VEIL is on and it looks MUCH better than before. My main concern with it now is that I may have gotten it too thin. I will get some pics up tomorrow when it will be drier if anyone wants to see them and if I can get some of decent quality.

In conclusion, thank you JDS and Victor for your helpful tips on resolving this problem. Happy VEILing and motoring to all.

Hey dude, welcome to the board, and no thanks are necessary. As it was told to me, this board exists to help each other out with problems such as this. After sanding, did you use rubbing compound? That and a little elbow grease will make your lenses look really good. After that, use the plastic polish.

[focalcivic]

The permatex kit is a good option, but not cheap at 16 bucks for just sand paper a little polish.

But the key is if you start at 1000, you need at least 1500 or 2000 as a follow up then polish.

When I did mine I went from 1000 to 2000 then plastix, looks pretty good. I didn't have 1500.

Another note: the denatured alcohol might of caused the burns, that stuff is pretty strong. I would go with 91% rubbing alcohol first, then to wetsanding if needed.

[Rebmemmurof]

Victor,

I did try the rubbing compound. I was going to skip it because on the Meguiar's forum link that guy didn't use it and he got a terrific result so I figured it wasn't really necessary. Also I'm cheap. After I sanded and used PlastX the first time and wasn't satisfied I tried it. It helped a little but it was clear that it wasn't going to clean my lenses up as much as they needed. After I used the Permatex kit I didn't try it again. If I'd known what I know now I'd probably have gotten some 1500 or 2000 paper, sanded with that and tried it again. I did notice the instructions on the back of the bottle said it takes out marks from 1500 paper and above.

Focalcivic,

Maybe if I'd gone with the 400 the 1000 would have been sufficient then. I'm a novice at this stuff, I didn't even know what wetsanding was until last week. Actually I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Permatex kit itself. I only bought it because I was stumped on what I needed to do to get my lenses clearer and I thought maybe the polish in it would do better than what I had. It is quite pricey for no more than what's in it, but the real value of it to me was the online video and the instructions inside. For anyone who knows what they're doing (unlike me) I would suggest just getting appropriate grit sandpaper and PlastX or something similar. I paid about seven bucks for my PlastX. A couple packs of sandpaper wouldn't put you too far below the price of the kit, on an absolute basis.

As for the alcohol causing the burns, I guess it's possible but I don't think it did. You can't really tell in the photos but some of the staining was evident before I took VEIL off, I just didn't realize what I was seeing. Also if the alcohol stained them I would have expected to see the staining more evenly distributed across the entire lens. Although the stained areas were large they were contained in specific areas and generally in the same places on each side although the right side was a little worse. Not only that but I used the alcohol by itself a couple times postVEIL trying to clean the driver's side lens and there was no staining from that.

I guess I thought denatured and 91% rubbing alcohol were the same. The denatured alcohol is GREAT for cleaning your brushes though.

[focalcivic]

Originally Posted by Rebmemmurof

Victor,

I did try the rubbing compound. I was going to skip it because on the Meguiar's forum link that guy didn't use it and he got a terrific result so I figured it wasn't really necessary. Also I'm cheap. After I sanded and used PlastX the first time and wasn't satisfied I tried it. It helped a little but it was clear that it wasn't going to clean my lenses up as much as they needed. After I used the Permatex kit I didn't try it again. If I'd known what I know now I'd probably have gotten some 1500 or 2000 paper, sanded with that and tried it again. I did notice the instructions on the back of the bottle said it takes out marks from 1500 paper and above.

Focalcivic,

Maybe if I'd gone with the 400 the 1000 would have been sufficient then. I'm a novice at this stuff, I didn't even know what wetsanding was until last week. Actually I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Permatex kit itself. I only bought it because I was stumped on what I needed to do to get my lenses clearer and I thought maybe the polish in it would do better than what I had. It is quite pricey for no more than what's in it, but the real value of it to me was the online video and the instructions inside. For anyone who knows what they're doing (unlike me) I would suggest just getting appropriate grit sandpaper and PlastX or something similar. I paid about seven bucks for my PlastX. A couple packs of sandpaper wouldn't put you too far below the price of the kit, on an absolute basis.

As for the alcohol causing the burns, I guess it's possible but I don't think it did. You can't really tell in the photos but some of the staining was evident before I took VEIL off, I just didn't realize what I was seeing. Also if the alcohol stained them I would have expected to see the staining more evenly distributed across the entire lens. Although the stained areas were large they were contained in specific areas and generally in the same places on each side although the right side was a little worse. Not only that but I used the alcohol by itself a couple times postVEIL trying to clean the driver's side lens and there was no staining from that.

I guess I thought denatured and 91% rubbing alcohol were the same. The denatured alcohol is GREAT for cleaning your brushes though.

I agree by the time you get the sandpaper and polish it would close to the cost of the kit, packs of sandpaper are like 4 bucks each.

Unless you can get a place to sell by the sheet.

Yes the the 2 alcohols are completely different.