AL G8 testing and performance

[RacerX]

Even though this could probably go in the review area, in light of the recent possible issues with the AL's, i decided to post it here, to keep things together.

For anyone new, let me summarize briefly.
For the full details and thread, go here:
http://www.radardetector.net/Ultralyte-LTI-20-20---AL-G8-does-not-alert-17047t.php


Basically, one of our members from South Africa, anjoem, discovered that his new AL G8 wasn't detecting or jamming an LTI ultralyte gun. there are several LTI models, and some have a 100 pps rate, and some have a 125 pps rate. It appears that his doesn't detect the 100 pps.
He contacted AL and was told that they do software specific regions in their software and they would send him one that would work correctly.
The big concern for myself and other AL users was that ours would not work either on those guns here in North America (USA).
AL issued an email stating that our (USA) software would work fine.
Now we just need to test this to confirm.
I have an LTI Marksman, 125 pps, and the AL does indeed detect and jam it.

Testing is still needed with an LTI with the 100 pps though.


Now on to my test with the Marksman.

I did a quick basic test to test the effectiveness of 2 AL heads on the front, and 2 on the rear of my full size truck.

The front ones were mounted CM, and on the rear i had one above the plate where my 2 Blinders are, and i did a temp mount with their bracket at the handle on my tailgate, since this is where i'll be flush mounting one of the heads.
this upper one cured my 0-250' PT issue from the rear, which is why i got them. Also from far out i can no longer pull a lucky shot at the corner of my taillights at the 2500'+ range anymore.

To summarize, i got JTG runs on the front, and JFG runs on the rear.

This is actually my first test on my truck since i added a vanity plate to the front. it breaks up the black, and gives them something to aim for. of course when they do, they're shooting directly at an LE-10 and a shifter head. :D

Normally on my base runs, my truck is very hard to get a lock on.
i normally can't get a reading until 900 and something feet. ( I have vids of this in the video section)
With this vanity plate, it increased my base run PT's to over 1100'.

I suspect an actual reflective license plate would make it worse, so protect your front plates if you have to have one.

I also did some runs with just the LE-10 on. this is an old school brute force jammer with a 5 second timer.
This is mounted in a plate frame above the vanity plate.
This is a powerful jammer. with this alone, it will jam for the full 5 seconds. on a close up shot it gave me JTG.
The downside to this jammer though, is that it will give error codes.
i have video of it giving an E-07 jam code on the Marksman.
If you live somewhere that only uses a PLIII, you'd be okay, since those don't show/have error codes.

As a backup, should i go somewhere that i don't want the LE-10 on, i also have a ZR3 shifter head mounted at the bottom of the plate. (license plate shifter head.)

Surprisingly enough, with just this jammer on, i couldn't get a reading until a few hundred feet from gun.


I have video, and pics of this test, which i will put together and post in the next couple of days, but i thought i would get this thread started.

[RacerX]

On a side note, i have some observations about the AL unlimited timer that i thought i would share.

First, the default timer is 8 seconds. upon initial startup, the unit "warms up" and will not jam until 60 seconds has passed.

if you set the timer to unlimited, the factory "test mode", it has no jam timer and it will start to jam immediately.


I noticed a strange quirk though, but i'm having trouble reproducing it, but i'll share it anyway.

i tested all this with my video cam so i could see the heads firing.
for some reason, one of the times i was shooting my LTI at it, with the unlimited firing mode, some combination of what i did, caused it to revert to an 8 second timer one time.

i haven't been able to reproduce it again though.
before i sent in the boxes, i noticed that once also, but hadn't done further testing.

One thing to note, i don't expect AL to address or test/fix this though. the reason being, is that they don't consider the unlimited jam time a "feature" of the AL.
Only 4 or 8 second.
The unlimited timer is for "lab testing" only. this is why the trick to doing it isn't in the manual, and they won't tell you how to in an email.

This didn't appear to be an issue or affect my tests, but still it's something to be made aware of.

I'm undecided at this point to whether i'll leave it unlimited, or put it back to 8 seconds.
It's no secret i'm not a fan of timers on my jammers, but in the real world it's good to have a timer or shut it off so they can get a reading and move on.

[oakhed]

Racer,

Full sized truck. Which?
Color? Year?

impressions I had were that 1 AL head in the front was eough. I had cocerns that one head on the rear would not normally be enough with the SLAB backend (tailgate) of a pickup.

Thanks for this current update.

[crazyVOLVOrob]

Racer,

Full sized truck. Which?
Color? Year?

impressions I had were that 1 AL head in the front was eough. I had cocerns that one head on the rear would not normally be enough with the SLAB backend (tailgate) of a pickup.

Thanks for this current update.He has a full size toyota tundra hunter green with a bra. The rear of his truck has a huge chrome bumper

RacerX thankyou for your thorough testing, I can't wait to see the videos

[RacerX]

You guys are welcome and i will work fast on them. :)

Also, close. it's a Tundra Double Cab. :wink: :D

when i get a chance i'll do some further testing to see how one head would do up front, and one in the rear.

for the rear, i'll do the same mount up high, then i'll move that head down above the plate at the top of the bumper and see what happens.

since i'm going to use 2 up front anyway, i want to test them mounted behind the mesh of my hood bra anyway, to see how they will do.

somewhere around here are pics of my truck. i'll dig them up and post them, and i'll work on the videos.

[RacerX]

okay, i'm downloading the vids to my computer now.

here's a quick pic of where the fronts were mounted.

Also, as you can see i have other jammers installed, but ALL of them were off for testing.

And yeah, i need to wash it. :wink: :oops: :)


http://donspc.com/Forum/altestpic.jpg

[RacerX]

Okay, here's the first video.
this is from the front.

10.8 MB
http://donspc.com/Forum/ALG8front.wmv



okay, here's the rear runs.

12.5 MB
http://donspc.com/Forum/ALG8rear.wmv

[go.mouse]

Looks good :D

[oakhed]

Real nice!

the JFGs are more important to me, only because you've got that *BEEP* bra on the front... and I won't do that to mine, so the "slab" of the tailgate makes a great target! Mine is white. So, I'm a bit concerned yet... but it certainly makes me think AL G8 would work for me... but 4 heads.. SO PRICEY!

[nvr2fast]

RacerX, from your experience with having multiple jammers on, does it help, or conflict with, the jamming?

That is... say you had a Blinder, ZR3, Antilaser, AND the LE-10 all blasting away trying to jam a gun... would this make things WORSE? Would it actually give punchthroughs from doing this?

Reason is, I have a Blinder M20 (about 2 years old), and i'm going to get a new diode jammer (LPP, or AL, or DS Defender2)... but i'm wondering if it would be better to leave the Blinders off, especially if they conflict.

What's your experience on this?

[thestaton]

haha my word that's gotta be the least stealthiest truck on the planet. i'm amazed you even get under 1000 FT :P

about the quirk you found with the 8 second timer. I to in my many many runs found that on several occasions it would just stop jamming at around 8 seconds.

thanks for the hard work & dedication.

where is your remote control car cb antenna? :)[/code]

[RacerX]

:lol: :lol:

no, you're mistaking my stealthiness with that unstealth happya$$ and his remote control looking CB antenna on his car. :lol:



nvr2fast,
that is a great question! i was wondering that myself, since i will have the shifters, LE-10 AL's and possibly 2 Blinders.

The Shifters and Blinders DO play well together with NO problems.


Since some have asked about a single head i will retest that, and i will test ALL of them together, along with some combos, like the AL with each one and verify if there will be any issues.

if my schedule works, give me a few days and i'll try and test it. :)

[anjoem]

Good work RacerX... keep us posted... I will be interested in the performance of 1 head on your black Rav 4. It is a Rav4, right?

[RacerX]

Tundra Double Cab.

it looks like i may test this friday, so it'll be a couple days.

i'll do some single heads front and rear, plus the multi-jammer tests.

here's a "cleaner" pic.

i have added headlight covers and mirror covers since this pic.

http://donspc.com/Forum/truckpic.jpg

[RacerX]

okay, i did some additional testing for everyone.

first, i had AL, Blinder, Lidatek (LE-10) and shifters on all together and it caused no strange readings or interference.
As far as i can see, they all played nice together.
The LE-10 caused the usual "jammer tone", but with it off, not strange tones or readings occurred.


Second, i did some additional tests with a single head front and rear.

I also did a front, single head test on a stock yellow xterra with no bra or veil.

if anyone wants vids, let me know and i'll compile them.

here's the results:

on the truck, a single head gave several JTG runs, and a PT at around 100 something feet. overall pretty good for that size of a vehicle.

on the back, 1 head gave the results i somewhat expected.
an initial PT at around the mid-high 100's, then JFG from there out.
i mounted one at the plate, and one at the center below the tailgate handle. if i shot high, with the low mount, or low, with the high mount, i could get that initial PT, then it jammed from there.


on the xterra, 1 head gave some JTG runs, and a PT at around 100 something feet.

overall, very good results on larger front ends.

[go.mouse]

Thanks for the test! Please show us some vids - I'd like to collect them =) AL and LPP seem to do very well against the Marksman.

[RacerX]

you got it.

give me some time and i'll do a couple vids.

i'll do a vid of the xterra with single head, and my truck with single heads front and rear.

Yeah, i would compare performance of the Marksman with the newer LTI's (125 pps anyway :wink: )

that just leaves a 100 pps LTI, if i can find one, and PLIII, LA, and Stalker. :)

[KulSecHskY]

Would it be safe to assume that the rear needs the extra head more than the front?

[411]

Great video , I like the scenery , specially this long long road .

The sound is just what I like , no hard rock to cover the laser tone...

Vito told me in an email that using m-20 at the same time with the al8 could produce PT.... does not sound true by your test...

What is the psl on this road ?

[anjoem]

Great stuff RacerX... will be awaiting the results...

I agree with you that 1 head on your vehicle did well... 1 head on my vehicle is more than enough as i got several JTG's and JFG's. I guess you could classify my vehicle as a medium-small size.

[nvr2fast]

Vito told me in an email that using m-20 at the same time with the al8 could produce PT.... does not sound true by your test...



Oh my GAWD... so using mroe than 1 jammer and you get punchthroughs???

[crazyVOLVOrob]

Vito told me in an email that using m-20 at the same time with the al8 could produce PT.... does not sound true by your test...



Oh my GAWD... so using mroe than 1 jammer and you get punchthroughs???Not true at all if you need proof talk to RacerX who uses multiple jammers at a time

[RacerX]

Thanks guys!
First, to answer some questions:

KulSecHskY,
It depends on where you live. I would give first priority to the front, unless you live somewhere that they mainly target the rear.
It is much easier to get a reading on the rear though. I can pick off vehicles much further out to the rear.
As for the “extra head”, that depends on the jammers. The Blinders can handle up to 4 heads per box, the Lidateks 3, and AL 2.

411,
The PSL is 50 on that road. As you can see, a lot of people exceed it by quite a bit sometimes, since it’s out in the open. That would be “average” traffic on that road.
Yeah, I just play with different music. I try to keep it below the level of the gun, so everyone can hear it, plus when I’m on speakerphone, you can hear the jammers in the background going off sometimes.

I saw no evidence of the jammers not working together. Other than the LE-10 giving the jammer tone, everything seemed fine on the front.

Even on the back, with the AL near the Blinders it worked fine.
I wonder if it’s with every gun, or maybe a particular one that they noticed issues with?


Here’s the summary of runs:

Video 1:
5.9 MB
http://donspc.com/Forum/al8xterra.wmv
2 runs with a single head on a stock yellow xterra. No bra or Veil.
1- PT at 104’ and a JTG.
2- Not a lot of runs, but it told us what we need to know.

Video 2:
9.0 MB
http://donspc.com/Forum/al8frontsingle.wmv
4 runs to the front with a single head on my truck, placed CM. (you can see some white tape holding it level)
1- PT at 109’ and 3 JTG’s.
2- Without a camera dangling off the gun I suspect I could have pulled some of the JTG’s into close range 100’ area PT’s. Still, not bad for a full size vehicle. On a stock truck with no Veil, bra and chrome, though, I would use 2 heads.


Video 3:
12.3 MB
http://donspc.com/Forum/al8rearsingle.wmv
This pretty much came out as expected.
My setup now, (not including shifters up in the back window) is 2 Blinder heads, side by side below the tailgate and above the plate.
For this test I put the 2 heads back, one center, between the Blinder heads and one at the tailgate handle, where I will be doing a custom insert under the handle for a “flush” hidden mount.
I only had 1 plugged in at a time for these tests.
Since the tailgate is such a tall target, up close without 2 heads, you will get initial PT if you aim opposite the head.
So if you have a low mount and aim high, you get initial PT, and vice-versa. Once you get out though, 1 head jams no problem.
A single head mount will depend on how they shoot to the rear, and at what distances. From a bit further out, a lower mount above the plate would be easiest and work well.

There you have it for this round of tests.

I’ll be doing my install soon, and once I get a hold of some other guns I’ll do more tests and post results. :D

[Won Hunglo]

Nice work!

[nvr2fast]

Great videos! Clear, and you show the gun shooting other cars (so you know it's not rigged or anything).

I guess for the rear, it doesn't matter if you mount low or high, you're going to get punchthroughs (mount low, punchthrough high, vice versa).

Do you think the AL8 mounted high (or low) and ONE blinder head low (or high) would be sufficient? Or you think the Blinders aren't powered enough for only 1 head to work at all?

[RacerX]

Thanks!

Yeah by now most people know my videos, but i still like to throw some other shots of vehicles with no interruption in filming so they see the gun working as it should.

Actually a single Blinder head did pretty well in the testing i did last year against all the guns.

A single head got several JFG's. I also got a bunch of different PT's, but i didn't spend much time in a level mount, since it was some impromptu testing. as the head shifted, PT's increased.

This is actually one of the reasons behind getting the AL's is because i wanted to mount a jammer in the handle area, but the Blinder wouldn't fit.

I think an AL mounted high and a single Blinder low would do very well.

That's one of the advantages to rear shots, is the further out you go, the more coverage area you will get, since the beam is getting bigger.

If you'll notice the first rear run, i got initial PT with the low mount, then that truck passed, giving an E-02. I re-shot high and that low head jammed all the way out.

I also did a bit of panning on these runs to look for any weak spots with the single head, front and rear.

The rear we know about.
On the front the weak spots are the far corners down below. with 2 heads they cured that on the first videos since they were spaced.

[go.mouse]

Good vids, RacerX.

Here's a suggestion - use a nightshot video camera to record the rear-shot runs before sunset. You will be able to see if the jammer head is firing. From my experience, those rear close-range punchthroughs occur when the jammer does not detect the laser beam at such distance unless you're firing at it dead-on. That could explain why you could get a PT on the lower part of your truck when you mounted the head high, and vice versa.

[anjoem]

Great vids... its pretty impressive on that size vehicle... I get full coverage with a single head on the vehicle i have, both front and rear.

[oakhed]

Thanks for the vids, Racer...

Convinces me: two AL heads up front, two rear... If I really want to be invisible. Not much Lidar in use around here, but some. I'll consider it carefully, unless of course, the lottery ticket in the truck is a wiiner... :lol:

[Hessen]

Great Vids. Thanks.

:D

Hopefully these will silence the Drama Queens.

I love your truck.............. :wink:

[RacerX]

:lol:
thanks.

Actually i checked the winning lotto numbers Sun, and it wasn't me. :(



1 gun down, 3 to go. they use PLIII here, so that should be an easy test.

The LA and Stalker, i'm working on that.


go.mouse,
Actually i've been talking for a long time about getting a nightshot cam.
I don't have one, but i had borrowed one for those Blinder vids i did at night showing them all firing.

At some point i'll get one ( if i stop buying all these jammers :lol: ) and i'll do a night vid on that same stretch of road.

i think you're right though, that they may not be detecting it right away. that and i've noticed that up close with a tight beam, the jammers (all of them) don't have the "reach" to cover the extra area.
That's why i could get away with one up front, but i like the overlap in coverage, since spaced, they will cover the corners better "just in case".

now it's time to pull some Blinders and make room for some AL's. :D

[crazyVOLVOrob]

Well RacerX my Laser Atlanta is going back in for service soon so I might have that available if the repairs don't cost too much

[anjoem]

This is a stupid question.... but what is a bra on a vehicle? (not the one that goes on a woman :) )

[oakhed]

This is a stupid question.... but what is a bra on a vehicle? (not the one that goes on a woman :) )

Pics of Racers truck with bra:
Head on:
http://donspc.com/Forum/altestpic.jpg

Pic from angle:
http://donspc.com/Forum/truckpic.jpg

the bra is the black vinyl/cloth cover on the front of the vehicle. They are ugly noisy contraptions that keep bugs off the paint, but with vibration and wear actually rub the paint off your car over time. I dislike them. Racer doesn't!

[anjoem]

aha.... thanx oakhead...

The only reason RacerX loves it, is that it reduces the reflective surface even more...

[RacerX]

yeah, it definitely cuts down on the reflectivity.:)

like oakhed said, some people like them and some don't. :)

with all the road trips and conditions i put my truck through, it actually protects my front end quite a bit more. it was getting pretty beat up.
the 2 things to keeping it from causing more harm than good, are regular cleaning. (about once a month i pull it and clean and wax under it) and keep it tight. if you have one that flaps at all, it'll buff off your clear coat in a heartbeat.

in between i rinse well behind it when i do a regular wash.

here's a before pic with stock look.

http://donspc.com/Forum/stocktruck.jpg



cVr:
let us know what repairs are, and if you can do the upgrade to the newer one with the jam codes in it.
maybe we can do a c.V.r.LA.AL tests fund and take donations. :D

[carter840]

I asked this question a few weeks back but never got a response i live in new york and was thinking about getting an AL8 but are these problems something that should convince me to get another detector. Looking at the list of lidar guns used in NY i'm still not sure if i'm afe getting an AL. I would love som input thanks.

[anjoem]

carter840... i suggest you get the AL G8... i only had the problem as AntiLaser most likely forgot to include the LTI Ultralytes code in the lookup table of MY unit. From this forum, every member from the states has confirmed that their AL G8 units does jam the Ultralyte.

AL ROCKS!!!

You can check RacerX's vids, they pretty convincing. :)

[carter840]

Good to hear. Now i just need to save 750 bucks. I think that's about what it would cost in the end. Unless they will gove a better deal for a forum member???

[anjoem]

This morning i drove pass a LaserCam (Photolaser + LTI Marksman)...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c71/anjoem/PhotoLaser.jpg

For fellow South African's, this is the new location on the M1 North just after the Wits Bridge. The red circle indicates the new location and the light blue cross indicates the old location. Again targeted from the rear.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c71/anjoem/PhotoLaser2-1.jpg

As you can see from the pics, the LaserCam is targetting the rear.

The AL G8 gave a double beep when targetted. I am not sure what this means... Has anyone else experienced this? I also get this double beep when i tried my Sony remote. I contacted AL and awaiting there response.

Also, i think i saw an E-03 error while passing the gun before it actually targetted me, so was the Lasercam busy resetting itself or was it doing something else... Who has info on the LaserCam....

I then took the next off ramp and came around again... this time the AL G8 alerted normally...

[RacerX]

The E-03 is a panning error, i think similar to E-02.

Not sure about the 2 beeps. it almost sounds similar to the 3 beeps it gives for a false. i wonder if yours does 2 because of that LTI fix that was added, since it uses different tones?

maybe the cam was just starting to target and threw the error code, so it stopped right away, and the AL thought the signal was some kind of false?
be interesting to see what AL says.

[RacerX]

Well i have completed my install. i pulled a bunch of Blinders and put the AL's in.

here's some pics. i especially like the insert in the tailgate handle.
the 2 red circles.

i will be retesting to ensure that my final install works well.

http://donspc.com/Forum/al8rear.jpg

http://donspc.com/Forum/al8rear1.jpg

here's a front pic.
The Al's are in red, the LE-10 in yellow, shifter in blue and the M-20 with a modified connection in green (so both heads fire together, regardless of which one is shot.)

http://donspc.com/Forum/newfrontjam.jpg


i will also do several runs with just the AL and Blinder to make sure they don't interfere.

Speaking of interference, there is one side affect i have found. if i get too close to a vehicle at a light, the parking sensor function sets off the LE-10, which in turn sets off the AL's with the 3 tone interference signal.

i have the sensors set to long range. i'll play with some different settings and see if it matters. it's not a big deal, since i would have to be closer than i normally get to the car in front, but i was trying to see how the parking sensor would react to different cars in front, and even on long range i had to be very close, and the LE-10 would go off before the parking sensor would.

[411]

the M-20 with a modified connection in green (so both heads fire together, regardless of which one is shot.)

Racer , wow this truck is the most CM loaded I ever saw ...kudo.

Can you tell us how you connect the m-20 so they fire together ...

I asked Leon a year ago about this trick and he told me that it could burst the control box ....either he did know his business or he discarded the idea without even trying to check ...

Anoher side note :

Since then , I learned by my-self that the control box is not needed at all , if I just plug the m-20 direct to 12 v = the head set off with my osprey , of course no alert is given , they do fire back like normal...

[anjoem]

The E-03 is a panning error, i think similar to E-02.

Not sure about the 2 beeps. it almost sounds similar to the 3 beeps it gives for a false. i wonder if yours does 2 because of that LTI fix that was added, since it uses different tones?

maybe the cam was just starting to target and threw the error code, so it stopped right away, and the AL thought the signal was some kind of false?
be interesting to see what AL says.

AL responded to my email... and all they said that it was a normal operation for the AL... he then recommends me to get a dual AL for the rear especially... but thats pricey... and from the tests that i have conducted, 1 head seems fine on my vehicle.

[RacerX]

411,
yeah, my backup jammers have backups. :D

yeah, i talked to Leon about this recently. i told him once i do some in depth testing i'd let him know how it goes.

i'm using a splitter, similar to the type the shifters use on the front jammers.

i'm going to do some further testing, but haven't had any issues yet.

i'll test on my truck and the xterra, since i has an M-20. i'll do stock setup, and i'll add the splitter to it and let everyone know.

yeah, the "black box" has nothing to do with controlling the heads, other than supplying power. the brains are in each head.


anjoem
hmmm... well they did respond, too bad they didn't actually answer the question. :?

if you look at the manual, it describes 2 beeps and the red LED as "faulty operation", yet they now say that this is also "normal" :?:

of course the book also says the 3 beeps is a warning that there may be a sensor problem, yet we now know that it also means a "false" as in it's detecting interference of some kind.