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compu44
09-11-2005, 11:12 PM
Today I got the chance to do a little testing against a stationary 33.800GHz Ka source. The roads were in such a way that I would be coming around 90 degree corners towards the radar beam, which made it VERY hard to detect.

Constant settings:
X, K - ON
SWS, POP - OFF
LASER - ON

Detector was a Rev 3.2 RX65 mounted high in a Ford Escort.

INTL mode / City - Seemed to make a a few second variance in when the detecto would alert. Sometimes the detector would seem to miss the signal for a while then jump into a 3 Bar instant-on type alert.

USA mode /City - Always detected in exactly the same spot, started off at one bar every time and then increased gradually.

INTL mode / Autoscan - This seemed to be a bad combination. I ran a different route a couple times with this setting - I was coming directly at the radar source for a longer period of time. The warning times varied greatly. On one run, I was dead line-of-sight before the detector alerted. It seemed to delay the alerts from the INTL/City runs by a MINIMUM of one second, sometimes, it seemed closer to three.

Take these for what they're worth. While the differences may not seem like much, keep in mind that the best warnings I was getting (USA/City) were only about 10-12 seconds due to the angle of the radar transmitter and layout of the streets. This was an extremely difficult test. A drop of 3 seconds when you're only getting 10 to start with is substantial in my opinion!

RensoreK
09-12-2005, 07:26 PM
Personally I always ran on INTL then I changed to USA mode as well and noticed on Ka it alerts much much further away, I have no idea why, but AutoScan seems to "dull" the brain of the detector down to "highway" level if theres many falses and if not it becomes "hyper-sensitive" to where things seem like instant on attacks... :?

nvr2fast
09-12-2005, 09:51 PM
Do you mean CITY mode is more sensitive than HIGHWAY mode?

aust3333
09-13-2005, 04:33 PM
Wow, nice analysis Compu44. I have recently found a constant K band source on my way home from work and I will also test the INTL\\USA modes on my RX65 rev. 4.5. One thing that I noticed on your test Compu44 is that you did not mention any settings on Highway mode during your tests of INTL vs. USA. I was always told that highway mode was more sensitive so I find myself running in Highway mode all the time. I will test with my K band source on INTL and USA and will report back. One more thing, I guess there are always downsides to whatever mode you use because according to research done in this forum, INTL mode was the mode of choice because it did a more thourough sweep of radar frequencies therfore detecting guns that are not calibrated correctly that may fall outside of normal frequencies. I will report back with my findings. Thanks Compu44 for the info.

Stealth_ARrOw
09-13-2005, 07:33 PM
I will see if I can do some tests as well. There is a local K band speed reader near me which I could use for tests. I'll see if its still there and what happens... 8)

jimbonzzz
09-13-2005, 08:40 PM
compu44's tests are consistent with how I understand that it operates.
In the USA, I recommend USA mode.

See what I had to say about it in this thread:
http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=256&highlight=international

RensoreK
09-14-2005, 05:22 PM
I have recently found a constant K band source on my way home from work and I will also test the INTL\\USA modes on my RX65 rev. 4.5.

K band detection is not affected by changing Ka mode to : USA or International.


One more thing, I guess there are always downsides to whatever mode you use because according to research done in this forum, INTL mode was the mode of choice because it did a more thourough sweep of radar frequencies therfore detecting guns that are not calibrated correctly that may fall outside of normal frequencies.

USA mode has nothing to do with sweeping the entire range, the X65 will still sweep slightly out of range and will detect even poorly calibrated radar guns, the INTL mode seems to be to detect Photo Radar slightly better by not just concentrating on the main frequencies used by guns but also frequencies used by Photo Radar. Search the forum for the other threads about USA vs INTL mode. It was beaten to death in one post. :wink:

Stealth_ARrOw
09-14-2005, 05:27 PM
Lol yeah I just noticed that we're talking about Ka too, sorry my bad :oops:

RensoreK
09-14-2005, 05:34 PM
compu44's tests are consistent with how I understand that it operates.
In the USA, I recommend USA mode.

See what I had to say about it in this thread:
http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=256&highlight=international


LOL, he posted while I was typing, THERE is the post where INTL vs USA was beaten to death. 8)

jimbonzzz
09-14-2005, 05:35 PM
USA mode has nothing to do with sweeping the entire range, the X65 will still sweep slightly out of range and will detect even poorly calibrated radar guns, the INTL mode seems to be to detect Photo Radar slightly better by not just concentrating on the main frequencies used by guns but also frequencies used by Photo Radar. Search the forum for the other threads about USA vs INTL mode. It was beaten to death in one post. :wink:

Actually it DOES have to do with sweeping the entire range. In USA mode, the RX-65 only sweeps the three main frequencies used in US radar guns: 33.8 GHz (MPH), 34.7 GHz (Stalker) and ~35.5 GHz (Kustom/Decatur). This will actually give better sensitivity to the US guns.

INTL mode sweeps the whole 2.6 GHz Ka range of 33.4-36 Ghz.

The NON-US Detectors are different, they will do the same type of thing (but on different frequencies) in order to have more range for weak photo radar. USA mode on the RX-65 will completely miss photo radar.

See this thread for a more thorough explanation:
http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=256&highlight=international

Jim

compu44
09-14-2005, 10:38 PM
Hey, i'm glad you all found my testing useful. I am getting more comfortable with USA mode, Especially in my area where all I have seen on Ka was 35.5 and 33.8. Plus, Jimbonzzz says it's good, and the professor hasn't misled me yet :)



In respsonse to Aust3333's comments-

City mode only effects X-Band, so for K and Ka, response tiem should be the same. However, if I do come across another situation of this type, I'll test it if I have time. Autoscan is still up for discussion. Many people on this forum say that it only filters X band, but my testing seems to indicate that it delays the alerting on at least some Ka encounters.

And to Stealth_ARrOw-
I'd be interested to see even K-Band tests, as Jimbonzzz said, it would effect the overall sweep time, which could well effect X and K.

Stealth_ARrOw
09-14-2005, 11:23 PM
This test was done using various settings and everything was purposely set to a specific setting to test (there is no randomness to this test, although it may seem that there is). I tried my K sensitivity (rx65) with City Lox(Low X), Highway, and Autoscan, first round with USA and second with INTL. I went by 1 time with each setting. The sign was down a hill after a curve with trees on both sides of the road, so it was a tough test. This is what I noticed:

USA setting
City Lox= Caught K second fastest, gave a K2 reading when first picked up.
Highway= Caught it the fastest, gave a K1 reading when first picked up and caught it the farthest away.
Autoscan= Caught the K band signal tied second with City Lox.

INTL
City Lox= Caught K the second fastest, gave a K2 reading when first picked up.
Highway= Caught it the fastest, gave a K1 reading when first picked up and caught it the farthest away.
Autoscan= Picked up the slowest, gave a K3 reading when picked up.

Obviously i couldn't get distance readings(i wish i could), and im not claiming my results are scientific. However, when the readings were picked up there were definite differences that anyone could notice.
The felt the 2 rounds i did this "test" gave me confident enough answers.
Overall, my "test" concludes that USA helps increase K band reading speed but only by a small margin. I have a feeling someone else would get different results anyway...

Stealth_ARrOw
09-14-2005, 11:24 PM
The test was done on a stationary K-Band speed sign BTW 8)

aust3333
09-14-2005, 11:50 PM
ooops, after my last post I went to my car and changed to USA mode and noticed that it was exclusive to Ka band. I have never flipped flopped between these settings so I never noticed until now. I like the fact that using USA mode that Ka will be more sensitive but Illinois is implementing photo radar through construction zones so USA may not be a best choice for me. Not that I speed through construction, but hopefully the RX65 will keep me on my toes in case I get distracted using the INTL mode. Thanks for the info Jimbonzz.

francescolodico
09-17-2005, 10:32 AM
:? Hi I live in Quebec Canada and was wondering if I should set it to International Ka or USA ka? can anyone help me?

Stealth_ARrOw
09-17-2005, 11:00 AM
I'd say put it on INTL. You are outside the US and probably have more frequencies on Ka to worry about than the ones covered with USA.

francescolodico
09-17-2005, 04:25 PM
I believe Quebec and other Canadian provinces use the same equipment availble to the USA. So Ka USA should really be called Ka North America.

isin't he right? I mean we arn't that far apart. What to do?[/quote]

compu44
09-18-2005, 10:43 AM
OK, after a little more testing with USA/INTL, I have noticed that while I might get 1-2 Ka falses in a year with INTL mode, I get 1-2 per day with USA mode. Seems like it picks up other RD's about half as much as having POP mode enabled. This now leaves me wondering if USA mode is almost as good as POP mode on with POP detection, just with fewer falses. Also, while a POP detection on the RX65 only displays "POP", with USA, I can see the frequency. Maybe it's a good compromise for POP detection? Any thoughts professor Jim?

Stealth_ARrOw
09-18-2005, 10:49 AM
Meh... :roll: Whatever, trust jamal on that one. He might be right, but remember our governments have different contracts and budgets so obviously its possible ours cops use different equipment.

francescolodico
09-18-2005, 03:20 PM
yeah you must be right....I guess I'll stick to INTERNATIONAL for Ka. :?
My other question is here in quebec we have lots of hills and trees :shock: (lots of things in between where the RD can have a much more challenging job to filter out the waves) :( now I'[m not sure if all the police department in my province use the Ka but at what distance would I be able to detect a cop at...? I asking cuase I haven't had a chance to get one on the radar...
frank

aust3333
09-27-2005, 03:47 AM
After further testing I too have found that my RX65 falses more using USA mode, especially combined with having POP enabled. I can honestly say that I can't remember getting a false on Ka band while in INTL mode. I switched to USA and received several falses everday I used this setting. USA is definitely more sensitive than INTL mode. I will be taking a 9 hour trip soon to Arkansas and I will probaly be switching back and fourth between modes for further testing. Personally, I think INTL mode gets the job done well without the falses. This is one of the things that makes the RX65 so attractive; it hardly ever falses on Ka band using INTL mode, this is the main reason I got rid of my Whistler Pro73. Ka band is used heavily in my city and state so falsing on this band I can not afford.

jimbonzzz
09-27-2005, 08:16 AM
OK, after a little more testing with USA/INTL, I have noticed that while I might get 1-2 Ka falses in a year with INTL mode, I get 1-2 per day with USA mode. Seems like it picks up other RD's about half as much as having POP mode enabled. This now leaves me wondering if USA mode is almost as good as POP mode on with POP detection, just with fewer falses. Also, while a POP detection on the RX65 only displays "POP", with USA, I can see the frequency. Maybe it's a good compromise for POP detection? Any thoughts professor Jim?

Interesting, I hadn't really noticed...
I would have expected the opposite to be true: in USA Mode, less falses from junk detectors on freqs that aren't used for Ka police radar in the US. Maybe the extra sensitivity in USA mode causes the extra falsing.

As far as it being a compromise for POP detection, I am pretty sure that the RX-65 won't detect POP at all with POP turned off. But I'll double-check to be sure. :wink:

Jim

nvr2fast
09-27-2005, 08:26 AM
OK, after a little more testing with USA/INTL, I have noticed that while I might get 1-2 Ka falses in a year with INTL mode, I get 1-2 per day with USA mode. Seems like it picks up other RD's about half as much as having POP mode enabled. This now leaves me wondering if USA mode is almost as good as POP mode on with POP detection, just with fewer falses. Also, while a POP detection on the RX65 only displays "POP", with USA, I can see the frequency. Maybe it's a good compromise for POP detection? Any thoughts professor Jim?

Interesting, I hadn't really noticed...
I would have expected the opposite to be true: in USA Mode, less falses from junk detectors on freqs that aren't used for Ka police radar in the US. Maybe the extra sensitivity in USA mode causes the extra falsing.

As far as it being a compromise for POP detection, I am pretty sure that the RX-65 won't detect POP at all with POP turned off. But I'll double-check to be sure. :wink:

Jim

Actually, I think someone said (or was that you!) that without POP enabled, it will still detect it 1/10 times or something like that, if the detector just happened to be scanning the particular POP frequency at the time.

From what others have said, enabling POP only means the detector scans a couple of frequencies faster, not the entire KA band.

I am also surprised that USA mode on the RX65 causes lots more false alerts than INTL mode. GoL testing showed the RX65 (in USA) mode to have further warning against USA radar, while the X50 (in INTL) mode to have worse against USA radar, but what I am guessing... and I may be wrong but i dont think so... is that RX65 in INTL mode will perform about the same as the X50 (in INTL mode), with similar/same number of false alerts (that is, very low, as the X50 has among the lowest false rates of any detector right now).

jimbonzzz
09-27-2005, 09:16 AM
Actually, I think someone said (or was that you!) that without POP enabled, it will still detect it 1/10 times or something like that, if the detector just happened to be scanning the particular POP frequency at the time.

Yes I HAVE said that (glad someone pays attention to me! :lol:) In some cases, I believe that to be true. SML even says something similar on their POP Test page: "Some detectors detect POP intermittently in their normal scanning cycle by "getting lucky" while others like Whistler are designed to detect POP"

But, with the RX-65, I'm just not too sure.

A lot of the detectors have filters in place where a signal must be present for longer than a certain number of milliseconds to trigger an alert. This is to prevent falsing because these very short signals are characteristic of Ka harmonics produced by sweeping oscillators in junk detectors. But with POP turned on, they have to remove some of this filtering so that the detector will alert to the 67ms bursts. MichaelB from whistler tested the RX-65 here:
http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?p=40060

So from his results I am thinking that with POP turned off, the signal might need to be present for 750ms to trigger an alert.
But I'll need to test this to know for sure. :wink:




From what others have said, enabling POP only means the detector scans a couple of frequencies faster, not the entire KA band.

Yep, that is correct. They will generally do a "priority sweep", hitting the MPH 33.8 GHz POP frequency more often. And of course they remove the junk filters as mentioned above.



I am also surprised that USA mode on the RX65 causes lots more false alerts than INTL mode. GoL testing showed the RX65 (in USA) mode to have further warning against USA radar, while the X50 (in INTL) mode to have worse against USA radar, but what I am guessing... and I may be wrong but i dont think so... is that RX65 in INTL mode will perform about the same as the X50 (in INTL mode), with similar/same number of false alerts (that is, very low, as the X50 has among the lowest false rates of any detector right now).

That sounds like a good guess to me.

Jim

PHILBERT
09-27-2005, 05:51 PM
I'm still collecting frequencies on Ka band in International Mode. Already I have seen the same frequencies in use again and again. I drive allot for work, so I get a lot of legit hits. Next I'm going to switch to USA mode and see if the same frequencies are received. If so, then I will use it more to see if range is extended and also if POP is falsing more. But if I do not see the same frequencies being picked up in USA mode, it's back to International mode!

Can anyone confirm that USA mode does pick up the photo radar frequency?

Phil ~

jimbonzzz
09-27-2005, 06:19 PM
Can anyone confirm that USA mode does pick up the photo radar frequency?

To my knowledge, it does NOT pick up the photo radar.
Only the three main freqs used in the US: 33.8 GHz MPH, 34.7 GHz Stalker, and ~35.5 GHz Kustom/Decatur.

Jim

compu44
09-28-2005, 01:23 AM
I've been playing with the USA mode still. Ka falses do go way up when in this mode. I can only recall a few in over a year in INTL, getting about one per day in USA mode, but i've easily been able to spot them as falses by the Spec display.

My RX65 is down due to a "service required" message, and i'm playing with a Whistler 1730 until it's fixed, but when I get the RX back, i'll keep playing around with the modes and see if I can come up with anything else to add. In the meantime, I hope to put together a good review on the 1730.

aust3333
09-28-2005, 02:53 AM
Compu44 when did the RX65 go down? Damn is this what I have to look forward too? I surely hope Bel gets their **** together and fix these service required issues. What revision do you have Compu44?

PHILBERT
09-28-2005, 05:38 AM
Can anyone confirm that USA mode does pick up the photo radar frequency?

To my knowledge, it does NOT pick up the photo radar.
Only the three main freqs used in the US: 33.8 GHz MPH, 34.7 GHz Stalker, and ~35.5 GHz Kustom/Decatur.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. I thought I read a post Roy made where he said four frequencies, including the PR freq, was scanned. I think I will call Bel today and see what they have to say.

On the frequency readout thing, I am seeing accuracy on repeat hits. I am also seeing resolution of at least 2 MHz. The more data I collect, the more we will know.

I used to power up with the ignition on the cigar plug. NOT ANY MORE! Now I power the unit down and unplug the cord as well. Just turning it off and leaving it plugged in may not be enough. An audible "click" could be heard indicating the unit was still getting a possible power surge.

aust3333
09-28-2005, 01:55 PM
Can anyone confirm that USA mode does pick up the photo radar frequency?

To my knowledge, it does NOT pick up the photo radar.
Only the three main freqs used in the US: 33.8 GHz MPH, 34.7 GHz Stalker, and ~35.5 GHz Kustom/Decatur.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. I thought I read a post Roy made where he said four frequencies, including the PR freq, was scanned. I think I will call Bel today and see what they have to say.

On the frequency readout thing, I am seeing accuracy on repeat hits. I am also seeing resolution of at least 2 MHz. The more data I collect, the more we will know.

I used to power up with the ignition on the cigar plug. NOT ANY MORE! Now I power the unit down and unplug the cord as well. Just turning it off and leaving it plugged in may not be enough. An audible "click" could be heard indicating the unit was still getting a possible power surge.

You took the words right out of my mouth Philbert. I am also changing the way my RX65 is starting up. From now on it will be powered down and then unplugged. My only concern about this method is the power socket getting loose on the RX65 and possibly worn out. It really $ucks that we have to do things like this to try and prevent the dreaded "SERVICE REQUIRED" message. Come on Bel, get it together please.

PHILBERT
09-28-2005, 03:35 PM
Can anyone confirm that USA mode does pick up the photo radar frequency?

To my knowledge, it does NOT pick up the photo radar.
Only the three main freqs used in the US: 33.8 GHz MPH, 34.7 GHz Stalker, and ~35.5 GHz Kustom/Decatur.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. I thought I read a post Roy made where he said four frequencies, including the PR freq, was scanned. I think I will call Bel today and see what they have to say.

On the frequency readout thing, I am seeing accuracy on repeat hits. I am also seeing resolution of at least 2 MHz. The more data I collect, the more we will know.

I used to power up with the ignition on the cigar plug. NOT ANY MORE! Now I power the unit down and unplug the cord as well. Just turning it off and leaving it plugged in may not be enough. An audible "click" could be heard indicating the unit was still getting a possible power surge.

You took the words right out of my mouth Philbert. I am also changing the way my RX65 is starting up. From now on it will be powered down and then unplugged. My only concern about this method is the power socket getting loose on the RX65 and possibly worn out. It really $ucks that we have to do things like this to try and prevent the dreaded "SERVICE REQUIRED" message. Come on Bel, get it together please.

aust3333,

I am also concerned about the ware and tear on the plug. I did call Bel and talked to a customer service rep about all of these issues.

1) USA vs INTERNATIONAL - The rep said the only difference in the two modes is the frequency range that is scanned. He said USA scanned 32.4 to 36.0 GHz and International scanned 32.0 to 37.0 GHz. There is NO DIFFERENCE IN RANGE of the alerts.

2) AUTOSCAN - He said he doesn't use AutoScan either because the weaker X and K band signals do not alert. It's like a city mode on X & K without a visual indication of the signals under the threshold.

3) "SERVICE REQUIRED" MESSAGE - He said they were aware of this problem and were changing the self calibration from every eight minutes to something like twenty minutes. He told me to "keep it out of the sun when you are not using it".

Huh? It's a heat related problem? I asked if ignition starting was causing it. He said NO. I asked if it was a good idea to unplug it until AFTER the car was started. He said it should not be necessary.

Now, about that Ka mode frequency range thing, did anyone happen to notice the error in his reply? Shouldn't it be 33.4 to 36.0 GHz? (not 32.4) ??? I have to tell you this conversation did not leave me with any confidence in what I was hearing. :roll:

aust3333
09-28-2005, 05:02 PM
Philbert did you happen to speak to Chad at Beltronics? I sure hope not, because he seems to be one of the more knowledgeable people there, and if you did that conversation sounded like a lot of BS to me. Heat is causing the issues huh?Yeahright, I'm sure heat does play a part but there are other issues that i'm sure he is not disclosing. I love the performance on my RX65 but I can't say that I would buy another Bel product if things don't change. I am also going to stick with my power up/down regimen until we get some concrete answers.

PHILBERT
09-28-2005, 07:03 PM
Philbert did you happen to speak to Chad at Beltronics? I sure hope not, because he seems to be one of the more knowledgeable people there, and if you did that conversation sounded like a lot of BS to me. Heat is causing the issues huh?Yeahright, I'm sure heat does play a part but there are other issues that i'm sure he is not disclosing. I love the performance on my RX65 but I can't say that I would buy another Bel product if things don't change. I am also going to stick with my power up/down regimen until we get some concrete answers.

No, not Chad. I think he said Dwain or something like that. Nice enough guy, but I did not feel he was a technical person. More like Level 1 support...basic read from the web site FAQs. I will also watch the power-up thing. They should have caught this problem in beta test. Now it's going to be a problem for many. I sure hope they are not charging people for this repair!

compu44
09-28-2005, 07:21 PM
Compu44 when did the RX65 go down? *BEEP* is this what I have to look forward too? I surely hope Bel gets their *BEEP* together and fix these service required issues. What revision do you have Compu44?

It flashed the service required message Sunday. It was purchased in June 2004. Revision 3.2. First problem with the unit.

It has powered on and off with the car's ignition since I bought it.

philnz
09-29-2005, 04:09 PM
rx 65
have just started running usa mode in new zealand instead of the intl mode to see if any different
in first day have picked up 2 cops and a photo radar
on photo 34.6 seemed to get better warning but this could have just been the site/conditions
freq have ranged from
33.710
33.721
34.6?? photo
34.716 stalker/cop
34.599 signal increased like a cop but was on ph so no id

aust3333
09-29-2005, 10:41 PM
I thought USA mode would not pick up photo radar? Professor Jim, your thoughts on this one.

jimbonzzz
09-29-2005, 11:40 PM
It was my understanding that it wouldn't detect photo radar in USA mode. The vast majority of photo radar is around ~34.3 Ghz or so which is the "regular" photo radar freq (Multanova etc). But NZ uses the PR100 at 34.6 Ghz. 34.6 GHz would be in the normal 100MHz guardband on both sides of the Stalker at 34.7GHz. They might even use a wider guardband.

Hard to say for sure though, since people have been told so many different things by BEL customer service. Maybe someone who has tried the RX-65 in USA mode against the Ka Multanova could chime in here...

Jim

compu44
09-30-2005, 12:21 AM
From a post on Epinions regarding USA mode vs. Multanova -

Also note that the radar must be put into "INTL" mode and not "USA" or "DEF" (default) mode. In any mode except International mode, ABSOLUTELY NO response is received. So I am sure that in USA mode, 34.3 KA band frequency is not monitored by the RX65 (if you know what frequencies USA mode monitors, please reveal!). This is not explained in the manual.

http://www.epinions.com/content_148262129284

PHILBERT
09-30-2005, 06:24 AM
I'm on the case! :lol:

Yesterday was my second full day in USA Mode after spending a week in International Mode. I'm collecting data. The first observation I made in USA mode was a greater number of falses. At least they appear to be falses. At times I was driving out on country roads where no other vehicles were around. I was getting POP alerts too. I'm sure this was NOT real. On the busy highways I was getting a great number of what appeared to be false alerts. The alert patterns of these false signals were very different from the real thing. Three out of fourteen hits were real. The real hits were what you would expect for longevity and range. The bogus hits were usually short and may indicate spurious emissions from other detectors passing by. A couple of repeat hits would come and go as I went down the interstate. I pulled off the road to see if they would continue or stop. They stopped and no legitimate source was seen. Again, I suspect this was spurious emissions from detectors traveling in the pack I was driving in.

I am recording the frequencies on every hit and taking notes. So far all of the USA Mode hits have fallen into +/- 100 MHz. Not one of the false signals has been out of that range. Even though this is a very short test, I find that to be an indicator that it may NOT be receiving more than 200 MHz off of the three known center frequencies. False signals tend to show up anywhere and I have seen just a few in International Mode outside of the 200 MHz (per channel) window. Most of these IM false signals were in the presence of a visible "garbage detector". In one case I was waiting for a fresh green next to a Corvette that was using a "Puniden" crap detector. He was falsing me and he kept looking at me like he was also getting some alerting.

Even though much more data needs to be collected, I would say that the reports of USA mode scanning on only THREE areas looks to be true. Comparing the range of one mode versus the other will take more time, but so far I have seen equal range on legit targets. I drive in some target rich environments! International Mode gave me some real long range warning that I thought was outstanding. Why does USA mode pick up so much more crap? This is a good question! Did Bel lower the alert threshold in USA Mode? It looks that way, but at what price? More falses???

I will continue to collect data in USA Mode, but I really prefer International Mode. The false POPs and alerts out in "no mans land" using USAM were bothersome. In heavy traffic it goes off WAY too often! I see no advantage to USA Mode. Plus, you might miss a legit photo radar.

Phil OUT ~

D.E.T
09-30-2005, 09:15 AM
Heat has been an issue with Beltronics before!

With Bel 980 I had couple of units that were changed to new ones by Bel. After beening powered for sometime rds went off K level 1-2 and stayed as long as unit was powered. Shutting down the unit and let it cool kept it running silent for some minutes. Then it started again.

mattvr
09-30-2005, 11:54 AM
Hard to say for sure though, since people have been told so many different things by BEL customer service. Maybe someone who has tried the RX-65 in USA mode against the Ka Multanova could chime in here...

Jim

Ill get right on that one, this weekend hopefully... will let you know

PHILBERT
10-01-2005, 07:47 AM
Yesterday I logged five more hits in USA Mode. Only one hit was genuine enforcement radar. The others were falses. One white BMW (with a black bra) sent out three different false hits until it passed by (going the other direction). One local was running on 34.685 and was 90 deg from my antenna. The range was very low at this angle. He was using constant on mode. One false came in at 35.399 GHz. This is interesting because it is 101 MHz from the center frequency of 35.500. I noticed philnz also logged one hit just outside of the suspected 200 MHz window. Perhaps these USA Mode channel windows are 202 MHz wide. Because the false signals all show up in these windows, I think USA Mode IS limited to only these three areas. I see no advantage to it. I'm going to use International Mode.

I have used this device long enough to settle on my favorite programming options. I've tried them all. Here is what I like and why I like it:

Pilot H - Although watching the voltage was useful, it cluttered the display and made visual alerts less impacting. I like to see action when there is action! The simple one character H, A, or C is all that is needed and keeps the display clear.

Voice OFF - This feature did not work on some alerts. It interrupted the Geiger counter of the alert. Besides, it sounds like "Robo Cop". Not useful.

PwrOn FST - The less noise and crap, the better. Keep it simple!

Meter THT - Not only can you actually see a broader range of signal strength (1-9), but you can also see it on all active bands. The other display modes alternate on multiple band alerts, which could lead to missing an important alert. Threat Display will show you everything that is out there and give you a better idea of proximity due to the increased scale of signal indication. I really like to read the frequency on TEC Display, but seeing signal on each active band is more important. I have come across one trap where one trooper was using Ka band and another was using K band. Any other display mode would be confusing and might not have pointed out TWO threats. Threat display was crystal clear!

aMute ON - Once alerted, I really don't want to hear allot of noise. The mute level is acceptable and I can watch the Threat Display to get the information I need.

City STD - X band is in use in my county. I have confirmed that. Although it may be limited use, I have to keep it on as I travel on many county roads. In general, I get far more K band door radar than X band, so I use AutoScan as my City Mode as it suppresses weak signals on both X and K bands. My detector would never shut up if I did not use AutoScan in the city!

Bands MOD - See below:

X ON - Still in use by low budget local and county agencies.
K ON - Not a whole lot of use by enforcement agencies, but still used.

Ka Int - As stated above, great range, far less Ka false alerts, and no missed frequencies like "photo radar".

POP ON - It's in use and I will take ANY legitimate early warning I can get. (NOTE: Falses far less in International Mode)

Ku OFF - No need at this time. I did see a couple of hits, but they were obviously from non-enforcement sources.

SWS ON - I have seen it in use. It might be very limited, but why not? It could be useful information. How would you ever know if it IS out there unless you use it? The way I see it, no harm done. It's not going to slow any radar scanning down.

Those are my favorite settings. They give me the best range with the least amount of false noise. :wink:

RensoreK
10-01-2005, 03:52 PM
Has anyone noticed but INTL is the default mode even though it's sold in the USA? When I reset my unit it returns to INTL mode...

Also, this is all testing and speculation derived from testing, can anyone receive creditable information on whether AutoScan affects any bands, the manual says it doesn't affect X band, and K and Ka are unaffected. And USA and INTL modes are really defined and the only thing we know is by testing like I said above. But is there any concrete evidence or confirmation as to what these two settings REALLY do? Maybe from the horses mouth themselves? (Belscort)

PHILBERT
10-01-2005, 08:46 PM
RensoreK,

I have called and asked. Others have too. The results have been somewhat conflicting at times. These people either do not know much or they will not give any clues to "trade secrets". I suspect BOTH.

IF I had a signal generator that would cover these bands, or if I had some actual radar equipment, I would do allot of testing to answer these questions. This is not cheap stuff, so I can't justify purchasing any of it. There is allot you can learn from observation. It just takes more TIME.

I was playing around with my old crappy PUniden LRD6199SWS and got an idea. :idea: I know this will generate allot of junk signals on my RX65, so I did some data logging. I learned much more than I expected. The first step to any lab test (not that this is a lab) is to control the environment so that you can duplicate the test and get the same results. The same results were duplicated again and again. I would turn off both units and let the RX65 power up and do its cal thing before I turned the PUniden on. 80 deg in the dark...no change in temp. The frequencies recorded were repeatable every time. I went through each band and mode ONE at a time. The final test had my usual setup and I did get multiple band alerts. This was in a total RF quiet zone (my driveway).

I received a total of 7 frequencies on Ka USA mode over and over again. 33.885 was the dominant freq. POP went off allot. With POP off I was able to read the frequencies better. ALL of the recorded freqs were in a 202 MHz window of two of the 3 known frequencies. None on 34 GHz.

Ka International mode had a total of 5 frequencies that were OUTSIDE the suspected 202 MHz USA window. POP also alerted, but not as much. What is weird about this is that they were different frequencies. This time 33.625 was dominant. Why? I noticed the Bel would NOT false until AFTER the PUniden did. This indicates to me that the false signals are a product of a MIX. The PUniden was going way nuts on nearly every band. Depending on what band was in alert, the Bel would read different frequencies.

I power cycled both units and did the same test over again. Same exact results. I also noticed a weird "LS 24.109" message when K band was turned OFF but SWS was still on (interesting!). USA mode did receive more falsing.

In one really bad repeat POP alert, I unplugged the PUniden and the alert kept going for another 20 seconds! This tells me it "stacks" multiple POPs until the alert sequence plays out. If you had 20 POP hits in 2 seconds, you would have to listen to them "play out" as each POP alert is much longer than the actual POP signal.

K band had 2 freq hits with 24.089 being dominant, No K band POP alerts!

X band had 3 freq hits with 10.500 being the main offender.

Ku band had only one freq logged over and over on 13.479.

Even with ALL bands turned OFF on the Bel, the PUniden still went nuts on Ka band. What does that tell us? The PUniden responds to the LO of the Bel and the Bel responds to the mixed products of the PUniden, which also goes nuts by the Bel's mixed products! It's a RF nightmare with intermod all over the place!!! At least the Bel tries to behave, but it gets MAD at the PUniden noise! :x

I have seen enough numbers to believe the USA mode 202 MHz window theory. About AutoScan, I can test X and K band easy with all those door openers I know of. Ka band is another story! In AutoScan mode I did pick up a very long range Ka alert that resulted in a solid visual ID. I do not think Ka is reduced by AutoScan. The real question I have not been able to answer is IF the AutoScan mode actually "intelligently adjusts the sensitivity" to "all incoming signals" or not. To me it looks like it just raises the alert threshold on X and K bands. In the city it keeps falses down and I still get long Ka band detection. On the highway it eliminates the normal false X and K band signals I'm used to hearing at some exits. One Homer Depot really puts some distant X band out on "the I", and AutoScan keeps the RD quiet. The real question is what it will do to X and K bands if there is a REAL threat. :?: