Slim vs Regular LI heads

[WaltBurkett]

Is there any performance difference between the slim and regular sized heads?
If not, would it be possible to just get 4 slim heads in a quad order?

[speed-dreams]

Is there any performance difference between the slim and regular sized heads?
If not, would it be possible to just get 4 slim heads in a quad order?
Slims are for the Rear... PM or email Cliff.

[Stealth Stalker]

Slim refers to their front-to-back depth. They are made a tad bit slimmer so that they will fit in shallow licence plate hollows. The sensor optics are also made to have a wider field of view, however the diode optics and output are the same, I believe.

[Laser-InterceptorUSA]

Is there any performance difference between the slim and regular sized heads?
If not, would it be possible to just get 4 slim heads in a quad order?

As StealthStalker indicated, the Regular Front and Rear Slim Sensor's dimensions are exactly the same in height and width and differ only in their depth front to back. This is to better facilitate installations under say the trunk lip of most vehicles. As the Slim Sensors have special optics designed to better address the characteristics of LIDAR Enforcement from the rear, the Regular Sensors should only be mounted up front and the Slim Sensors in the back of your install vehicle as the Regular Sensors perform better up front and the Slim Sensors perform better in the rear.

Yes, if after this explanation you would like an LI QUAD consisting of all Slim Sensors, it can indeed be configured this way. :)

Cliff - LI-USA

[crazyVOLVOrob]

Picture of the different size of the heads in depth
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e12/crazyVOLVOrob/DSC02439.jpg

[WaltBurkett]

Thanks for the responses but I guess I should have been clearer in my questions.
I know and understand the differences in actual size of each sensor. What I am looking for is if anyone has actually done testing in the performance differences between the two sized heads when mounted in the front as well as the back? Why should the slim sensors only be used in the rear? If they are designed to be effective for straight on rear shots out to laser effective range yet also offer extended off bore sight capability, angle off the tail, would they not actually be better in the front also? Or are you saying that since they offer wide angle rear capability they could be overpowered, i.e.: burn through at close low aspect ranges when employed in the front.
Instead of me guessing, Cliff, what exactly do you lose when using slim sensors in the front? Specifically?
When saying the slim heads have special optics are you saying they have a different head cover or diffuser that gives them a larger angle of coverage or view age?
Here in the DFW area many shots are taken from overpasses, both head on as well as going away.

Thanks for clarifying,
Walt

[Laser-InterceptorUSA]

Instead of me guessing, Cliff, what exactly do you lose when using slim sensors in the front? Specifically?
When saying the slim heads have special optics are you saying they have a different head cover or diffuser that gives them a larger angle of coverage or view age?
Here in the DFW area many shots are taken from overpasses, both head on as well as going away.

Walt

Simply, LIDAR Enforcement from the front is not a High-Axis as LIDAR Enforcement from the rear as you are shot from a great distance upon initial painting. You have plenty of warning with the ahead scenario and little to none with the rear scenario. The slim sensors can detect (see) better in the rear scenario than the regular sensors can. The specific technology is proprietery and what gives LI it's performance advantage! ;)

Cliff - LI-USA

[category4]

Simply, LIDAR Enforcement from the front is not a High-Axis as LIDAR Enforcement from the rear as you are shot from a great distance upon initial painting. You have plenty of warning with the ahead scenario and little to none with the rear scenario. The slim sensors can detect (see) better in the rear scenario than the regular sensors can. The specific technology is proprietery and what gives LI it's performance advantage! ;)

Cliff - LI-USA

Must work pretty well too. We were doing some testing last night with the shooter 25' above the road and no PT's on rear but at about 50' could get PT's on front.

[speed-dreams]

I wonder what results could be obtained from using the Slim heads up front.

[WaltBurkett]

Cliff,
<<< Simply, LIDAR Enforcement from the front is not a High-Axis as LIDAR Enforcement from the rear as you are shot from a great distance upon initial painting.>>>

Not necessarily so. Many shots are taken low aspect in the front as well as rear. Some shots in the front are high aspect as I mentioned the frontal shot via overpass min range. I saw the other day an LEO on the sidewalk at the corner of an intersection with his motorcycle well into the grass shooting both forward and rear shots at all angles and distances. (Although I will admit that type of encounter is probably pretty rare.)


<<< The slim sensors can detect (see) better in the rear scenario than the regular sensors can.>>>
Meaning they have better high angle detection? Also better high angle jamming capability?

<<< The specific technology is proprietery and what gives LI it's performance advantage!>>>
Believe me when I say you have no worries about divulging secret information about the LI. Anyone in the business of electronics could easily re-engineer one if desired to see what components are installed and how exactly they work. I am simply trying to understand what is the real difference in performance between the two types of heads to determine what combination I should get and how to deploy them. (i.e. 2 slim heads on the outside front and one regular head in the middle front. One slim head in the rear.)
One last question:
Are you saying that the slim head does not have the longer, low aspect jamming capability that the bigger head has?

Again, the reason for this thread was also to see if anyone had actually tested slim heads up front.If not, maybe its worth a test?


Walt

[category4]

Like I said earlier my regular heads are pretty good until the angle gets pretty steep, probably 45 degrees or so, then I start to see PT's at very short range. Nothing that you would encounter in real world scenarios. Also these tests were done at very slow speeds 10-15 MPH, allowing the shooter ample time to search for weak points.

With the slims heads there were no PT's even at the extreme angles and slow speeds.

[Laser-InterceptorUSA]

Walt,

The transmitter in the both the Regular and Slim Sensors is identical. The key with both types of Off-Axis LIDAR is detection, 1/2 of the equation to succesful Countermeasures. With that said, the Slim Sensor are better at detecting these Off-Axis LIDAR scenario(s).
Yes, LI has done extensive testing resulting in the culmination of the Slim Rear Sensor.
As to "re-engineering" the LI, that day still has not occurred! It's more than just simple hardware that are the heart and soul of the LI and it's prowess against LIDAR.
With that all said, two Regular Sensors up front and two Rear Slim Sensors in the rear.

Cliff - LI-USA

[speed-dreams]

X^2
Amen

[REBinc]

If the regular are only for the front, and slims are only for back, why don't you just label them front and rear to avoid all this confusion?

[lolfun12]

If you put slims in front, less PT? Any tests done?

[ahmadr]

Cliff,
<<< Simply, LIDAR Enforcement from the front is not a High-Axis as LIDAR Enforcement from the rear as you are shot from a great distance upon initial painting.>>>

Not necessarily so. Many shots are taken low aspect in the front as well as rear. Some shots in the front are high aspect as I mentioned the frontal shot via overpass min range. I saw the other day an LEO on the sidewalk at the corner of an intersection with his motorcycle well into the grass shooting both forward and rear shots at all angles and distances. (Although I will admit that type of encounter is probably pretty rare.)


<<< The slim sensors can detect (see) better in the rear scenario than the regular sensors can.>>>
Meaning they have better high angle detection? Also better high angle jamming capability?

<<< The specific technology is proprietery and what gives LI it's performance advantage!>>>
Believe me when I say you have no worries about divulging secret information about the LI. Anyone in the business of electronics could easily re-engineer one if desired to see what components are installed and how exactly they work. I am simply trying to understand what is the real difference in performance between the two types of heads to determine what combination I should get and how to deploy them. (i.e. 2 slim heads on the outside front and one regular head in the middle front. One slim head in the rear.)
One last question:
Are you saying that the slim head does not have the longer, low aspect jamming capability that the bigger head has?

Again, the reason for this thread was also to see if anyone had actually tested slim heads up front.If not, maybe its worth a test?


Walt

Slim heads have a wider receive angle compared to normal heads. This also means that normal heads have a higher optical gain (meaning better reception) in the more limited angle they cover.

All in all:
Angled shots: slim heads
More coverage area: normal heads
Sunlight interference rejection: normal heads
Long distance shots: normal heads, doesn't really matter as receiving not the problem

That said, I would bet that both heads would do just fine in almost all scenarios. And, angled coverage is generally weak anyway, even with slim heads. And it is more horizontally than vertically.

[WaltBurkett]

Ordered the quad and will be installing on my 997 C4s. Thanks Cliff!

I'll upload some pictures when I am done.

Walt

[Laser-InterceptorUSA]

:)

Cliff - LI-USA/ LI-UK

[djrams80]

997 C4s:eek: Jeez! My car is a POS!

[Laser-InterceptorUSA]

Nonsense!

Cliff - LI-USA/LI-UK

[riverwabbit703]

Ordered the quad and will be installing on my 997 C4s. Thanks Cliff!

I'll upload some pictures when I am done.

Walt

Porsche... There is no substitute.

LI... There's no substitute in jammer world.