Poll - Flash Back Device

[Radar Roy]

Hey Guys, I know that this is the wrong conference but its my forum, so I'm allowed to break the rules once in awhile.

Anyway I've been testing a flash back device that so far actually works!

Now I'm curious on how many of you guys would be interested in buying one if it was developed.

Here is a video of the product and you can read my full review here:
Photo Radar Flash Back Device (http://www.radarroy.com/2009/09/photo-radar-flash-back-device/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIAjIUutgHM

[trailtow]

I would love to have this device if cameras were present in my area but they are not but there is porbably countless members that will want this can't wait to see further results maybe some video from a tail car to see the flash?

[Carrots]

I for one am defiantly interested in this new technology.

My main concern is the 50% effectiveness against the mobile camera setups. Testing that must have cost a few root canals?

In as far as fixed cameras go, I think the current GPS systems have them fairly well covered.

Keep fightin the good fight . :thumb2:

[ATSRADAR]

I have seen some fixed sites flash multiple times to grab a few photos. If the unit needs recharging time, how would it tackle multiple flashes?

[Kayrac]

I have seen some fixed sites flash multiple times to grab a few photos. If the unit needs recharging time, how would it tackle multiple flashes?


it wouldn't :P, great idea, but has it been tested against MANY speed cameras? and not just the phoenix area ones?, as atsradar makes a good point

[voyager7]

Cost? Or did I miss it.
No cameras in Michigan (yet) but I would consider buying one.

[<<JAZZY>>]

The video seems to lock up with about one minute left.

[rocky2]

I would buy one if the price was reasonable.

[Offshore]

Yes I need two, how much ???

[Radar Roy]

Cost, we don't know yet as he still has this under development but the target would be around $150.00 each.

Why fixed cameras and not mobile vans, seems that the fixed cameras have a more powerful strobe.

As far as double flashes, the unit stores enough power to flash twice, this was needed to beat the red light cameras that often take two photos.

Before this item comes to market I would expect that the "dentist" will do additional testing on this device on cameras outside of Phoenix.

Before he (or others) dump allot of cash into the project they want to see what the interest level is for such a product.

[Radar Roy]

You're correct, there are some problems with the Video
Also to avoid a DPS raid on his office I further masked his identity

So I am rendering a new video now

[thestaton]

Got any idea of what the final is going to look like? Would it conflict with a dual laser jammer setup already on the rear?

[Radar Roy]

I just re rendered the video, hopefully this fixed the stopping

[Offshore]

Cost, we don't know yet as he still has this under development but the target would be around $150.00 each.

Why fixed cameras and not mobile vans, seems that the fixed cameras have a more powerful strobe.

As far as double flashes, the unit stores enough power to flash twice, this was needed to beat the red light cameras that often take two photos.

Before this item comes to market I would expect that the "dentist" will do additional testing on this device on cameras outside of Phoenix.

Before he (or others) dump allot of cash into the project they want to see what the interest level is for such a product.
Roy,

I would love to try one in Lafayette LA, REDFLEX has setup shop in a big way and is tagging my family left and right. I would be willing to pay up front for a proto type and test for you....PM me if that is an option...thanks

[Radar Roy]

Right now there are only two devices

The "Doctor" will be making more prototypes and there will be additional testing however where, who is all up to him but I will pass on your offers

[voyager7]

@ $150 that's a bargain!
How much room will it take up in the trunk?
I have a convertible and trunk room is sparse.

[srtga]

I'd be interested.

I read an article where some study found that $200 is the "gadget price threshold" for males so it sounds like he is shooting for the "sweet spot".

Seems the study found that most guys will commit to buying a gadget >$200 a lot quicker than they'll spring for the same item priced just a few $$ more...

[GTO_04]

Do all RLC and Speed Cameras use a flash? Even in daylight?

Are there any cameras that use video and no flash? Those are the only limitations I would see.

If you have a front plate will you need two devices per vehicle?

GTO_04

[Radar Roy]

License plate frame with a box along the bottom that sticks out a couple inches



Got any idea of what the final is going to look like? Would it conflict with a dual laser jammer setup already on the rear?

[Stealth Stalker]

If it also works on toll booth cameras, I'd buy one. I don't have a speed camera problem where I live.

[snoopyc4]

I would buy one is it were reasonably priced. I'd like to start busting redlight cameras again :D

[<<JAZZY>>]

Cool device but not needed in my area yet so I voted No for now.

[REBinc]

On a scale of 1-10, how illegal would this be?

[nvr2fast]

I had actually helped test the VF2 flashback units, and the last/latest batch was able to defeat the "double-flash" Redflex (and basically any double flashing cameras globally) and were much brigher than the older VF2 units.

The original/old VF2 units were only able to flash once, then needed to "recharge" I think for about 10 seconds or something, which made them useless against double flashing cameras. In addition, if they were used too much, they would overheat. The latest batch did not have this problem. It is a pity they stopped manufacturing them, because I have a few from the last/latest batch and they actually do work (the ones tested by Radarroy and similar I guess are the earlier batch that only single-flashed).

The downside was the pricing. The VF2 latest batch that worked great were, from memory, sold at about US$399 or similar, which is probably more than other people wanted to pay, which is why they stopped manufacturing them. I had organized a group buy of the new units, but after I heard of them stopping manufacturing, I kept all the group buy units for myself in case the bulb or something broke, then I'd have my own spares/replacements haha (if any of you are really interested in trying this msg me), but if its $150 for these new Radarroy versions and they work the same or even better than the VF2 new batch then I'm certainly in for at least 1 or 2 units to try :p

[speedracer2010]

Does anyone know when they will be available to buy and how much they will cost. If they work like yall say they do I would buy one. Anything to stop they goverment from taking our money.

[thestaton]

On a scale of 1-10, how illegal would this be?

I'm thinking a 1. Not your fault the camera failed to do it's job.

[Stealth Stalker]

Even the device itself is specifically prohibited by Texas law, and is a criminal offence.

[voyager7]

Even the device itself is specifically prohibited by Texas law.

Not from Texas, but why is it?

[crazyVOLVOrob]

No

Simply because currently I have had great luck with my Cheetah c100 and I have lifetime updates:)

[TSi+WRX]

I voted "yes."

But that's contingent on the device's ability to protect even against I/R based camera systems and video-based systems.

And yes, my vehicle is already equipped with a SpeedCheetah GPS-Mirror. And I'm contemplating buying a C50, too, for the wifey's car.

But I still want this device, provided that it can defeat even the I/R based and video-based cameras.

At $100, I'll definitely buy one, maybe even two.

At $150, I'll definitely buy one.

At $200, I'll buy one, but I won't be very happy. :p

Above $200, because I already have the Cheetah....maybe.

----

BTW - are two units required, one for the front, and one for the rear?

[sethy]

Roy, who are you to break the rules!? ;)


If it also works on toll booth cameras, I'd buy one. I don't have a speed camera problem where I live.

This is effective against red light cameras too? at 150 a piece, id pick one up today...

Are there any photos of this thing in action?

[Doc What, son?]

I've also got the Cheetah GPS mirror, which works great, but I'd like the extra protection against Speed On Green cameras.

For $150, I'd get one for me, and probably another at Christmas for my gal!

Actually, I better get it by Thanks giving, if she's to have funds available at Christmas for getting presents for the chillens.

[EscortRadar]

Do all RLC and Speed Cameras use a flash? Even in daylight?

Are there any cameras that use video and no flash? Those are the only limitations I would see.

If you have a front plate will you need two devices per vehicle?

GTO_04

Interesting device

LaserCraft (http://www.lasercraftinc.com/) use cameras without flashes

[category4]

I would certainly be interested, especially since plate covers are illegal in GA. This device would be perfect for all the redlight cameras.

[TSi+WRX]

Do all RLC and Speed Cameras use a flash? Even in daylight?

Are there any cameras that use video and no flash? Those are the only limitations I would see.

Interesting device

LaserCraft (http://www.lasercraftinc.com/) use cameras without flashes

^ Exactly:

http://escortradarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260

That's why I posed the questions to Roy that I did prior.

I want to be sure that this device is also capable of defeating non-flash cameras, as well as video-based systems.

:)

[Stealth Stalker]

Even the device itself is specifically prohibited by Texas law.
Not from Texas, but why is it?
Texas law lumps such devices in with counterfeit, altered, and fictitious licence plates. It specifically mentions lighting devices, and counts as an attempt to alter or hide your licence number, which is a criminal offence.

[Lucky225]

Cost, we don't know yet as he still has this under development but the target would be around $150.00 each.

Why fixed cameras and not mobile vans, seems that the fixed cameras have a more powerful strobe.

As far as double flashes, the unit stores enough power to flash twice, this was needed to beat the red light cameras that often take two photos.

Before this item comes to market I would expect that the "dentist" will do additional testing on this device on cameras outside of Phoenix.

Before he (or others) dump allot of cash into the project they want to see what the interest level is for such a product.

I think multiple flash rate should be selectable so it's future proof

[Lucky225]

Even the device itself is specifically prohibited by Texas law.
Not from Texas, but why is it?
Texas law lumps such devices in with counterfeit, altered, and fictitious licence plates. It specifically mentions lighting devices, and counts as an attempt to alter or hide your licence number, which is a criminal offence.

Yep it probably also violates the Federal lighting standard, which is my same argument as laser jammers, I'd still install it as it doesn't mask until a camera flashes :D

[Stealth Stalker]

...I'd still install it as it doesn't mask until a camera flashes :D
Exactly. If I were concerned about legalities, I wouldn't be speeding in the first place.

[Lucky225]

...I'd still install it as it doesn't mask until a camera flashes :D
Exactly. If I were concerned about legalities, I wouldn't be speeding in the first place.

Risk vs Reward ratio is all that matters

[Akosikojak]

Count me in, pending the test results back up the claims.

Sounds like a good companion to my Nav alert. :)

[proudNMAmember]

Since I am going to need a new Super Protector license plate cover anyway, this device sounds really cool. Sign me up so I can go into Toledo Oh/Chicago IL and test it out.

[rickr]

If this means I can go back to ignoring red light cameras, the new speed-on-greens they'll be wanting next, and the construction-zone vans, then I will gladly pay for two.

[rsatmans]

It really depends on how stealth the unit is. Will it add substantial girth to the rear? Will it be totally and smoothly integrate into a license plate surround? This is probably the most important point to me.

[Batman]

First of all cameras are not a huge issue around Miami since they are only on red lights and toll plazas. I would only really consider this worthwhile if they introduced speeding cameras.

However, if we did have speed cameras, I have some concerns about this device to be addressed:
1) What if the camera is also taking video? Our red light cameras in Miami take 2 photos and a video clip. So I can see how this would save me from the photos, but couldn't they get my plate of the video if its a daytime offense?
2) How do you ensure the flash doesn't affect the driver behind you? I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

[Cauhauna]

I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

[Eloi]

I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

Valid concern , for what I can figure the system use a filter in front
of the flash , which filters out all visible light and let pass only the concerned
infrared . The same principle the photocam uses .

From what I know during the day the photocam don't use flash ,
so the device is useless in this condition ... unless the Dentist could
come up with a constant flooding ir during the day .

Here they use Traffic Robot with a flash even during the day .

ROBOT Visual Systems GmbH (http://www.robot.de/english/index.php)http://www.robot.de/images/traffitower.jpg

One suggestion : can the unit be made so it looks like those
back-up camera ? like placing a fake lens :cool:

Yes please place me on the waiting list .

[TSi+WRX]

I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

I think that a device like this should either come with an integrated interrupt switch, to be enabled by the user, in just such cases or, alternatively, that the end-user should remember to wire in such a diverter.

[Lucky225]

I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

I think that a device like this should either come with an integrated interrupt switch, to be enabled by the user, in just such cases or, alternatively, that the end-user should remember to wire in such a diverter.

x2, only turn on when you are near cameras, and kill if 5-o is around.

[nvr2fast]

I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

I think that a device like this should either come with an integrated interrupt switch, to be enabled by the user, in just such cases or, alternatively, that the end-user should remember to wire in such a diverter.

x2, only turn on when you are near cameras, and kill if 5-o is around.


Or even better yet, have it turn on for 60 seconds when your radar detector alerts (say, for the Multanova or Reflex or other radar-based cameras), because usually you only get around 2-5 seconds warning with those photo cameras, so you don't have much time to slow down.

They love to like to put these on places where it goes from 100kmph to 80kmph, or 80 to 50, etc. just to catch people not slowing down fast enough.

And the cops love to shoot laser at people just at the intersection of these speed limits, so if you haven't slowed down enough fast enough, bam, you're screwed. LI/Blinder for those situations. And hopefully photo blocker for the first.

[Lucky225]

I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

I think that a device like this should either come with an integrated interrupt switch, to be enabled by the user, in just such cases or, alternatively, that the end-user should remember to wire in such a diverter.

x2, only turn on when you are near cameras, and kill if 5-o is around.


Or even better yet, have it turn on for 60 seconds when your radar detector alerts (say, for the Multanova or Reflex or other radar-based cameras), because usually you only get around 2-5 seconds warning with those photo cameras, so you don't have much time to slow down.

They love to like to put these on places where it goes from 100kmph to 80kmph, or 80 to 50, etc. just to catch people not slowing down fast enough.

And the cops love to shoot laser at people just at the intersection of these speed limits, so if you haven't slowed down enough fast enough, bam, you're screwed. LI/Blinder for those situations. And hopefully photo blocker for the first.

I don't think that's a viable option as by your own admission you only have a couple of seconds, and with my luck the detector would aler AFTER the camera. I think a GPS camera database activation would be more feasable, but then you take the risk when traveling into unknown territory weather or not your database is up to date.

[nvr2fast]

Well, okay, the idea would not work if it alerted AFTER you passed the camera. In my experience, even on very weak Multanovas/Redflex, you would at least get a warning when you're almost parallel with the camera.

What I mean is, for the flashback device to be "armed" for, say, 10, 30, 60 seconds when the radar detector gets a signal, so if you get a warning of the Multanova 15 seconds before you reach it (haha, I wish), the flashback will stay on long enough until you've reached and passed the camera. I'm assuming that the flashback device can get "armed" within 1 second or less once the signal is detected, so even in the worst case, you're almost parallel with the camera before it alerts, you will be okay.


I don't particularly like GPS-based alerts. I don't know about where you are, but there are literally hundreds of such photo boxes on the side of the road, and only about 10 or 20&#37; of them actually have equipment inside, the rest are just bogus/decoys.

Many times, they put these on places where the speed limit changes, so you see everyone hit their brakes hard when they get to the speed limit sign and see the box on the side of the road. So it's pointless to warn to ALL of these... you wont get any rest/relaxation from it beeping all day long for empty boxes.

And GPS doesn't cover mobile vans/cars/tripods/etc. that are becoming popular and move around all the time.

[Lucky225]

Well, okay, the idea would not work if it alerted AFTER you passed the camera. In my experience, even on very weak Multanovas/Redflex, you would at least get a warning when you're almost parallel with the camera.

What I mean is, for the flashback device to be "armed" for, say, 10, 30, 60 seconds when the radar detector gets a signal, so if you get a warning of the Multanova 15 seconds before you reach it (haha, I wish), the flashback will stay on long enough until you've reached and passed the camera. I'm assuming that the flashback device can get "armed" within 1 second or less once the signal is detected, so even in the worst case, you're almost parallel with the camera before it alerts, you will be okay.


I don't particularly like GPS-based alerts. I don't know about where you are, but there are literally hundreds of such photo boxes on the side of the road, and only about 10 or 20&#37; of them actually have equipment inside, the rest are just bogus/decoys.

Many times, they put these on places where the speed limit changes, so you see everyone hit their brakes hard when they get to the speed limit sign and see the box on the side of the road. So it's pointless to warn to ALL of these... you wont get any rest/relaxation from it beeping all day long for empty boxes.

And GPS doesn't cover mobile vans/cars/tripods/etc. that are becoming popular and move around all the time.

Yea I can definitely see your concern, however I would only have an audible alert if you actually receive a flash, and I think GPS would be more reliable than radar detection. Maybe a combination of both would be sufficient. I don't know though it may take up to a few seconds to arm, you know like the flash bulbs on camera require a big capacitor that needs to charge before you actually can take a picture, I would assume a BIGGER capacitor that is required to be charged to flash out your license plate. Maybe charge the capacitor when you turn the device on so it's armed, but turn the sensor on only when you get an alert would be the best option.

[Radar Roy]

Got any idea of what the final is going to look like? Would it conflict with a dual laser jammer setup already on the rear?

Nope, I would assume that would look similar to the pro type

[Radar Roy]

The flash flashes on the plate so much of the light is diffused
During the day you can hardly make out the camera flash




I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

[MetalFlame]

If this device is capable of detecting/defeating double IR-flash in broad daylight,I'll buy 2 sets for sure.This kind of device is in high demand in EU and I'm sure that if this thing proves to be effective against double IR-flash(I think flashes are 0,09 sec. apart),I bet that you'll sell lorry loads to EU market.Also,$150 is VERY good price.

[Lucky225]

If this device is capable of detecting/defeating double IR-flash in broad daylight,I'll buy 2 sets for sure.This kind of device is in high demand in EU and I'm sure that if this thing proves to be effective against double IR-flash(I think flashes are 0,09 sec. apart),I bet that you'll sell lorry loads to EU market.Also,$150 is VERY good price.

If they're using IR I would think a laser jammer type device would defeat that.

[MetalFlame]

If this device is capable of detecting/defeating double IR-flash in broad daylight,I'll buy 2 sets for sure.This kind of device is in high demand in EU and I'm sure that if this thing proves to be effective against double IR-flash(I think flashes are 0,09 sec. apart),I bet that you'll sell lorry loads to EU market.Also,$150 is VERY good price.

If they're using IR I would think a laser jammer type device would defeat that.

The problem is that you need A LOT of IR light to defeat IR flash radar and the other -major- problem is detecting IR flash in sunny weather.

[Lucky225]

If this device is capable of detecting/defeating double IR-flash in broad daylight,I'll buy 2 sets for sure.This kind of device is in high demand in EU and I'm sure that if this thing proves to be effective against double IR-flash(I think flashes are 0,09 sec. apart),I bet that you'll sell lorry loads to EU market.Also,$150 is VERY good price.

If they're using IR I would think a laser jammer type device would defeat that.

The problem is that you need A LOT of IR light to defeat IR flash radar and the other -major- problem is detecting IR flash in sunny weather.


A lot of IR isn't a big deal since it's invisible, and IR is like a remote control, it's pretty easy to pick up.

[MetalFlame]

If this device is capable of detecting/defeating double IR-flash in broad daylight,I'll buy 2 sets for sure.This kind of device is in high demand in EU and I'm sure that if this thing proves to be effective against double IR-flash(I think flashes are 0,09 sec. apart),I bet that you'll sell lorry loads to EU market.Also,$150 is VERY good price.

If they're using IR I would think a laser jammer type device would defeat that.

The problem is that you need A LOT of IR light to defeat IR flash radar and the other -major- problem is detecting IR flash in sunny weather.


A lot of IR isn't a big deal since it's invisible, and IR is like a remote control, it's pretty easy to pick up.

Belive me,it's not so easy.You need to detect ONE pulse/burst/flash of IR at around 30ft. and with sun shining directly on the IR receiver.In this case the biggest problems are Signal-to-noise ratio and signal rejection/filtering,to prevent responding to false IR sources and at the same time to maintain required Rx sensitivity.

[Lucky225]

If this device is capable of detecting/defeating double IR-flash in broad daylight,I'll buy 2 sets for sure.This kind of device is in high demand in EU and I'm sure that if this thing proves to be effective against double IR-flash(I think flashes are 0,09 sec. apart),I bet that you'll sell lorry loads to EU market.Also,$150 is VERY good price.

If they're using IR I would think a laser jammer type device would defeat that.

The problem is that you need A LOT of IR light to defeat IR flash radar and the other -major- problem is detecting IR flash in sunny weather.


A lot of IR isn't a big deal since it's invisible, and IR is like a remote control, it's pretty easy to pick up.

Belive me,it's not so easy.You need to detect ONE pulse/burst/flash of IR at around 30ft. and with sun shining directly on the IR receiver.In this case the biggest problems are Signal-to-noise ratio and signal rejection/filtering,to prevent responding to false IR sources and at the same time to maintain required Rx sensitivity.


What does falsing matter if your flashback floods with invisible IR, it's not like anyone behind you will see the flash.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Potential conflict with active LIDAR jammer? - not only in terms of triggering the device, but rather, in terms of the police LIDAR "seeing" the miscue.

Again, these are all just questions, at this point....

[Batman]

The flash flashes on the plate so much of the light is diffused
During the day you can hardly make out the camera flash




I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

Thanks Roy. That addresses the flash concern. What about the video, or the non-flash situations?

[Lucky225]

^ Potential conflict with active LIDAR jammer? - not only in terms of triggering the device, but rather, in terms of the police LIDAR "seeing" the miscue.

Again, these are all just questions, at this point....


True, when packaged together with other countermeasures and the like I could see the falsing being annoying.

[TSi+WRX]

^ Again, I don't know that will be the case, though. :o

It's all just a bunch of questions, at this point :) - some of which have yet to be addressed by Roy. :confused:

I guess we're all just wondering what the exact parameters of effectiveness of this device will be.

[Eloi]

^ Again, I don't know that will be the case, though. :o

It's all just a bunch of questions, at this point :) - some of which have yet to be addressed by Roy. :confused:

I guess we're all just wondering what the exact parameters of effectiveness of this device will be.

Salute Bro ,

unfortunately , no flash = no protection ....from what I understood ;)

I think we should define the 2 types of flash used by different makers :

the regular known flash , visible light .
the ir flash : barely visible during the day but still discernible at night.

Which maker uses which ?
What is the wavelenght of their ir ?
Would a combination of the flash reflected light + ir led pulsed directed
at the cam be an avenue for the ultimate cm ?

The more infos we get in , the better the Doctor will find the cure ;)

[TSi+WRX]

^ I sure hope so! :)

[niran916]

Here in Sacramento they have just upgraded the red light cameras to shoot video of the incident so this might not work for me????

[Radar Roy]

Device only detects flash, not video



The flash flashes on the plate so much of the light is diffused
During the day you can hardly make out the camera flash




I could imagine some guy not paying attention, crashing and claiming it was because of the camera flash from your car...

This was my thought as well -- that, and the officer behind you that you don't see nailing you for flashing the camera and public endangerment

Thanks Roy. That addresses the flash concern. What about the video, or the non-flash situations?

[TSi+WRX]

^ Depending on price-point, it still might be worthwhile, though.