New ZR4 On The Way

[PHILBERT]

I just pulled the trigger on a ZR4 set (from RadarBusters) and will have it in two days. I thought about all the options. I like the option to chuck the ZR4 control box and direct "shift+link" to my new 9500ix. I want the display on the ix to show what laser is doing...and alarm through that. I also want to do the MEM-TEK super-mod to it, but can't get a hold of him. Where is MEM-TEK these days? If anyone can give me the info, I would appreciate it. :)

Now...LaserShield and Veil...will it really help? I'm not a huge speeder. I just HAVE TO get around log jams here in Turdville, FL. when they go 5-15 under. I might be a 9.99 guy on ocasion. I mostly want to know when I'm targeted, but if it really helps I'll get the two and add it to the "white whale" (mini-van). :D

Phil :cool:

[category4]

MEM-TEK has retired from the countermeasures forum from the best we can tell.

Veil will help, lasershield I have my doubts about.

[PHILBERT]

MEM-TEK has retired from the countermeasures forum from the best we can tell.

Veil will help, lasershield I have my doubts about.

Thanks for the answer. Sorry to hear that about MEM-TEK. :( Smart dude! I was reading over at his web site. Hope he was not "burned" over here.

Well I could coat the back of the LaserShield with Veil I guess. Too bad I have to darken my headlamps.

Phil :cool:

[category4]

MEM-TEK has retired from the countermeasures forum from the best we can tell.

Veil will help, lasershield I have my doubts about.

Thanks for the answer. Sorry to hear that about MEM-TEK. :( Smart dude! I was reading over at his web site. Hope he was not "burned" over here.

Well I could coat the back of the LaserShield with Veil I guess. Too bad I have to darken my headlamps.

Phil :cool:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/veil/45218-my-veil-application-airbrush-brush-4.html#post679437

[PHILBERT]

MEM-TEK has retired from the countermeasures forum from the best we can tell.

Veil will help, lasershield I have my doubts about.

Thanks for the answer. Sorry to hear that about MEM-TEK. :( Smart dude! I was reading over at his web site. Hope he was not "burned" over here.

Well I could coat the back of the LaserShield with Veil I guess. Too bad I have to darken my headlamps.

Phil :cool:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/veil/45218-my-veil-application-airbrush-brush-4.html#post679437

Wow! Those look good. I would hire a pro to spray mine. :o

Question: Does Lidar work on red lenses? Or does it have to be the clear backup lights? :confused:

Phil :cool:

[category4]

MEM-TEK has retired from the countermeasures forum from the best we can tell.

Veil will help, lasershield I have my doubts about.

Thanks for the answer. Sorry to hear that about MEM-TEK. :( Smart dude! I was reading over at his web site. Hope he was not "burned" over here.

Well I could coat the back of the LaserShield with Veil I guess. Too bad I have to darken my headlamps.

Phil :cool:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/veil/45218-my-veil-application-airbrush-brush-4.html#post679437

Wow! Those look good. I would hire a pro to spray mine. :o

Question: Does Lidar work on red lenses? Or does it have to be the clear backup lights? :confused:

Phil :cool:

Lidar loves red, if it will reflect enough of a signal back to the gun it will see it.

Black is best, but it will also reflect a signal back, it just takes longer to get a strong enough of a signal.

[PHILBERT]

I was affraid of that with the red lenses. Well...I hope it is enough. Some day I want a fast flat black (ugly) car with LI and an STi-R Plus.

What is the most stealth car you have seen?

Phil :cool:

[Stealth Stalker]

...the "white whale" (mini-van). :D
Nothing in this thread is going to protect that. Either get a good jammer, or save your money for your lawyer.

[DrCoke]

I just pulled the trigger on a ZR4 set (from RadarBusters) and will have it in two days. I thought about all the options. I like the option to chuck the ZR4 control box and direct "shift+link" to my new 9500ix. I want the display on the ix to show what laser is doing...and alarm through that. I also want to do the MEM-TEK super-mod to it, but can't get a hold of him. Where is MEM-TEK these days? If anyone can give me the info, I would appreciate it. :)

Now...LaserShield and Veil...will it really help? I'm not a huge speeder. I just HAVE TO get around log jams here in Turdville, FL. when they go 5-15 under. I might be a 9.99 guy on ocasion. I mostly want to know when I'm targeted, but if it really helps I'll get the two and add it to the "white whale" (mini-van). :D

Phil :cool:

You bought the ZR4 to protect a minivan? You crazy?? PM me for testing when you get it installed.

[Char1iebrown]

Congrats on your purchase, even though you are driving a pretty reflective vehicle. What are you in? Good luck bro!

[Stealth Stalker]

What are you in?
Deep doo-doo.

[PHILBERT]

What are you in?
Deep doo-doo.

Are you talkin' to me? ... Are you talkin' to me? ($#!+heel) :D

I'm not a high roller or leadfoot. Just a lightweight trying to get around logjams in snowbird land, so my use is more of situational awareness. I can't expect to do much countermeasure with my white whale, I know. To be honest, I just enjoy the technology and knowing what is going on around me. I understand some of you are "in the game"...I'm not 90% of the time.

Phil :cool:

THE "WHITE WHALE":

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2505/ixhidden2.jpg

[Stealth Stalker]

That really doesn't make any sense though. It will offer you NO protection whatsoever. That's a lot of money to spend on a false sense of security, if you're not a high-roller. It's not going to do anything more for you than your RD already does. Whether you're playing the game or not, I just don't see the point. Is there really nothing else you could have spent four bills on that would be more useful to you? I bet your wife thinks so.

[PHILBERT]

That really doesn't make any sense though. It will offer you NO protection whatsoever. That's a lot of money to spend on a false sense of security, if you're not a high-roller. It's not going to do anything more for you than your RD already does. Whether you're playing the game or not, I just don't see the point. Is there really nothing else you could have spent four bills on that would be more useful to you? I bet your wife thinks so.

You gotta problem wid dat? :D

What do you care what I spend four bills on? Maybe I like to spend money on high-tech gadgets. So what? What's it to ya? And you know nothing about my wife (nor should you), so leave my wife out of it. :rolleyes:

I'm going to enjoy the four bills I spent, and when I mod it I will enjoy it even more. :p

Phil :cool:

[Stealth Stalker]

I'll tell you what it is to me. You came her asking for our input. That's what you're getting. Don't like it? Disappear.

[Char1iebrown]

What are you in?
Deep doo-doo.


lol I MEANT WHAT ARE YOU IN, AS IN WHAT STATE!

[PHILBERT]

I'll tell you what it is to me. You came her asking for our input. That's what you're getting. Don't like it? Disappear.

Stealth Stalker,

It should be clear by now that this is just fun for me. The only input I asked for was about Veil, LasrShield, and the MEM-TEK mod info. I know my big white van is a tough one. I'm not a serious speeder. And I know the ZR4 is not the best. Technology advances and application are my real interests (I'm an engineer). BUT I am promoting Radar Busters on their forum by announcing my purchase from them here. I'm having some fun, that is all. And my Robert De Nero impersonation is followed by a big smile...just fun. What is it you are doing? Telling me what to do with my money, and bringing my wife into this? Power tripping maybe?

Most people here are good guys (like cat4). I appreciate the advice with respect. And I admire some of the great installs the guys have done. We all know where I'm at, as I have made it clear many times. If you can't be respectful, I will ask you to kindly "disappear" off my thread, as I do not want your input. Persist and I will complain to the owners of this forum.

Thank you.

[PHILBERT]

What are you in?
Deep doo-doo.


lol I MEANT WHAT ARE YOU IN, AS IN WHAT STATE!

LOL! :D Florida. ;)

Phil :cool:

[category4]

I'll tell you what it is to me. You came her asking for our input. That's what you're getting. Don't like it? Disappear.

Stealth Stalker,

It should be clear by now that this is just fun for me. The only input I asked for was about Veil, LasrShield, and the MEM-TEK mod info. I know my big white van is a tough one. I'm not a serious speeder. And I know the ZR4 is not the best. Technology advances and application are my real interests (I'm an engineer). BUT I am promoting Radar Busters on their forum by announcing my purchase from them here. I'm having some fun, that is all. And my Robert De Nero impersonation is followed by a big smile...just fun. What is it you are doing? Telling me what to do with my money, and bringing my wife into this? Power tripping maybe?

Most people here are good guys (like cat4). I appreciate the advice with respect. And I admire some of the great installs the guys have done. We all know where I'm at, as I have made it clear many times. If you can't be respectful, I will ask you to kindly "disappear" off my thread, as I do not want your input. Persist and I will complain to the owners of this forum.

Thank you.

There's many here that will disagree with your good guy comment, but I do appreciate it.

Supporting our sponsor here is a great idea, big thumbs up on that one.

I would recommend if you are going to stay with the ZR4's that you install all 3 heads up front. It might give you a fighting chance.

I realize where SS is coming from, we give good advice and sometimes it seems as if it's just not getting through. As long as you realize the limitations of your system then we have done our job of education.

Once you get it installed, please get it tested so you have an idea of how effective it is. Don't get overconfident and hopefully we can hear some stories of success. If you mostly stay within 10 of the PSL anyway, you are not much of a target, at least here in GA.

[andycj7]

If that ZR4 hasn't been delivered/opened yet, i would try to send it back.
Instead, buy the Blinder m-27 from radarbusters, which is only $30 more for a huge bang for the buck.
I don't know what the front of your van looks like, but m27's would probably give your van decent protection in conjunction with Veil on the lights/front plate.

I understand where your coming from with just wanting to play around with some technology in your car. I suggest spending $30 more for blinders and you will have a bit more piece of mind during your commute. :)
Anyways, best of luck in your ZR4 install or whatever jammer you decide to buy.

[PHILBERT]

Thanks much, guys. I hear what you are saying, and it is solid advice. I appreciate it.

What if I could have the best of both worlds? What if I beef up the LEDs or go to Laser Diodes in the ZR4? That is actually my plan. I'm an engineer who likes to mod stuff (more power...ugga ugga). I know MEM-TEK did this, and I didn't want to re-invent the wheel, but that is my goal. I am looking at laser diode and LED options now. There are many choices out there for 904 nm. Might need to beef up the driver power supplys as well, but until I get to know what is inside I will not know what is the best choice. What I do know is there are many advances in high output devices these days. I would bet I could do this with ease. If I get something really good going, I will test it with some of you guys (if you want). If CM won't make a ZR5, I will! :D

I know LI or M47 would work out of the box, but the idea of an integrated package sounds like what would be the bomb for my needs...and my wife. Too many alarms going off will make my wife angry. :mad: ...and drive me nuts.

I am also wondering if more heads could be interfaced to this to have more coverage. That should be possible too. I would have to make my own extension heads...not so easy. Maybe some discarded ZR3 housings would be reasonable to buy and mod. I really believe this stuff could be done with a little engineering. It's not everyones cup of tea, but it is mine. :)

Phil :cool:

[thx1138]

Enjoy your tea....There is another thread with a homemade jammer project by Solion that you may find of interest. Maybe an older blinder or a ZR3 would have been a cheaper base to start your experiments, regardless, good luck with the project.

[DrCoke]

If that ZR4 hasn't been delivered/opened yet, i would try to send it back.
Instead, buy the Blinder m-27 from radarbusters, which is only $30 more for a huge bang for the buck.
I don't know what the front of your van looks like, but m27's would probably give your van decent protection in conjunction with Veil on the lights/front plate.

I understand where your coming from with just wanting to play around with some technology in your car. I suggest spending $30 more for blinders and you will have a bit more piece of mind during your commute. :)
Anyways, best of luck in your ZR4 install or whatever jammer you decide to buy.

He has to protect Moby Dick with the ZR4.

[PHILBERT]

If that ZR4 hasn't been delivered/opened yet, i would try to send it back.
Instead, buy the Blinder m-27 from radarbusters, which is only $30 more for a huge bang for the buck.
I don't know what the front of your van looks like, but m27's would probably give your van decent protection in conjunction with Veil on the lights/front plate.

I understand where your coming from with just wanting to play around with some technology in your car. I suggest spending $30 more for blinders and you will have a bit more piece of mind during your commute. :)
Anyways, best of luck in your ZR4 install or whatever jammer you decide to buy.

He has to protect Moby Dick with the ZR4.

:lol:

BTW - I'm right up the road from you in "PSL" land. ;)

[PHILBERT]

Enjoy your tea....There is another thread with a homemade jammer project by Solion that you may find of interest. Maybe an older blinder or a ZR3 would have been a cheaper base to start your experiments, regardless, good luck with the project.

Thanks. I hope I have something worthwhile to share after all is said and done.

Phil :cool:

[PHILBERT]

Enjoy your tea....There is another thread with a homemade jammer project by Solion that you may find of interest. Maybe an older blinder or a ZR3 would have been a cheaper base to start your experiments, regardless, good luck with the project.

Thanks. I hope I have something worthwhile to share after all is said and done.

Phil :cool:

Holy Shyte! :eek: I just found that Solion thread!

Thanks for the heads up, thx1138! That is some good reading.

Phil :popcorn:

[srtga]

Don't mind the d-bags :D Just enjoy your new gizmo!

Just don't get too cocky or you'll get PWNED...

[PHILBERT]

Don't mind the d-bags :D Just enjoy your new gizmo!

Just don't get too cocky or you'll get PWNED...

Roger that, srtga ~ No PWNEage here. Only awareness until I get them modded...then testing before I get cocky. :D


NEWS FLASH: THE PACKAGE HAS ARRIVED!

Phil :cool:

[Stealth Stalker]

I know my big white van is a tough one. I'm not a serious speeder.
It makes zero difference whether you're a serious speeder or not. The cops use the very same guns against the casual speeders. Either your jammer works, or it does not. It's like pregnancy. There is no "almost" or "just enough". You're either protected, or you're not. That's what you don't seem to be getting, which is pretty disappointing in an engineer.


And I know the ZR4 is not the best. Technology advances and application are my real interests (I'm an engineer).
Wonderful. That's why I am here too. But when you start talking about performance, it's no longer a theoretical technical discussion. It either works, or it doesn't work. Yours will not.


What is it you are doing? Telling me what to do with my money, and bringing my wife into this? Power tripping maybe?
I have no power over you. You are free to do whatever you like with your money and your wife. Machts nichts to me. But it is important to me that accurate information be put forth in these threads, because too many people read these threads for serious reference. If we allow complete BS to be posted without the facts rebutting them, then we do a disservice to our membership.


Most people here are good guys (like cat4). I appreciate the advice with respect.
No, you only appreciate and respect the advice that you want to hear. Anyone who is telling you anything other than how this set-up will fail is not doing you any favours.


If you can't be respectful, I will ask you to kindly "disappear" off my thread, as I do not want your input. Persist and I will complain to the owners of this forum.
Be my guest. The owners of this forum are the ones who put me in this position to do exactly what I am doing, which is to assure the order and integrity of the forum. Nowhere along the line was I told I needed to be mindful of your ego.

If you don't like the input you are getting here, that's your problem, not ours. Next time, don't ask for it if you don't want it. End of discussion.

[PHILBERT]

:rolleyes:

You have serious problems.

[srtga]

:rolleyes:

You have serious problems.

He's the head D-Bag :lol:

[Stealth Stalker]

You have serious problems.
Oh, so first you're an engineer. Now you're a psychiatrist?

Keep digging.

[category4]

You have serious problems.
Oh, so first you're an engineer. Now you're a psychiatrist?

Keep digging.

Gotta love that sense of humor. Man I always get the biggest laughs off some of your posts. Keep up the good work.:D

[Idontgo55]

You have serious problems.
Oh, so first you're an engineer. Now you're a psychiatrist?

Keep digging.

Well That's a Very Nice Kia Mini Van there Stalker must have a great job...:D

[DrCoke]

Stealth stalker may be an @ss here but he's cool as he'll in person. To the new members he bashed, he is only doing u a favor by telling you facts.

[Stealth Stalker]

LOL! Well, a Blinder didn't even come close to protecting my Kia Optima. That's why I have zero faith in a ZR4 making the slightest difference on a mini-van. I don't just pull this stuff out of my arse.

[srtga]

Well, I had a few LEGIT saves with my ZR3 on a red neon. Gotta say that a white mini van will most likely fail...

[djrams80]

I usually disagree with Stealth Stalker on matters such as these, because I don't think he gives the ZR4s enough credit. On some cars, with Veil, the do fairly well. But on this case, he's absolutely correct. The ZR4s on that minivan have absolutely no shot. That's instant ownage.

[chriskohtc]

I usually disagree with Stealth Stalker on matters such as these, because I don't think he gives the ZR4s enough credit. On some cars, with Veil, the do fairly well. But on this case, he's absolutely correct. The ZR4s on that minivan have absolutely no shot. That's instant ownage.

I would agree on Stealth Stalker on this matter. For a price difference of $30, there's an exceptional increase in performance with the M27. To be honest, as an engineer, I feel perplexed as to why another engineer would deliberately buy an inferior product--even in the name of fun.

Its like having the money the buy a motorcycle, but going ahead and buying a bicycle in order to have the fun of attaching a motor to it... But whatever floats your boat eh?

[djrams80]

I would agree on Stealth Stalker on this matter. For a price difference of $30, there's an exceptional increase in performance with the M27.We agree on that. Clearly, the M27 is a better buy and a better performer. What we disagree on is that he seems to feel that the ZR4s are totally useless, while I feel that they perform reasonably well on certain vehicles.

[category4]

I would agree on Stealth Stalker on this matter. For a price difference of $30, there's an exceptional increase in performance with the M27.We agree on that. Clearly, the M27 is a better buy and a better performer. What we disagree on is that he seems to feel that the ZR4s are totally useless, while I feel that they perform reasonably well on certain vehicles.

ZR4's do quite well on some vehicles, especially when combined with Veil as DJ has shown with his vehicle.

ZR4's also do much better in the wild than in testing as Erick has shown with his many high speed saves in the past.

[PHILBERT]

I hear ya all...even Stealth Stalker. Thanks for the advice.

Remember...I'm on a mission to improve the thing...and I wanted a linked system for simplicity, control, and integrated display/alarm. In the end I believe it will pay off. I have been driving (for work...and family) all over SE FL for more than 16 years without any laser protection...just radar. One radar cite in all that time (no detector...16 over...in a stupid hurry for work...never again!), and traffic school took care of that. I have seen LIDAR used in my direction maybe 7 times in 16 years. Could be more I have not seen...I know...LIDAR on the rise...yada yada. None alerted my old RX65! My new 9500ix did alert two times (at night). But having the ZR4 detection down low and also from the rear will help to detect in areas the ix misses...and the backup RX fails. And yes, I know detection is too late...but remember I have a plan. Since the ZR4 is known for good detection, I have half of the battle already done. Once triggered I can tap off of that and improve the jamming...at least that is the goal. FHP gives you 10, so I do not push it beyond that unless forced to (real bad log jam). Enough said...now the fun begins.

QUICK EARLY REVIEW:

I hooked up the ZR4 for a quick test. Used the shift+link cable and connected it to my 9500ix. No indication on the ix that the ZR4 was connected (power up prompt). The ZR4 control box went to sleep though (good sign). Went into prefs and looked for laser options. No ZR4 options! Called Belscort and they were stumped (no solution). I remembered seeing the options in Escort Detector Tools, so I hooked up the computer and turned on the "ZR4 Shift" option using Tools. Tested it again. Then it gave me a ZR4 power up prompt on the display and ZR4 options in prefs. Is this a buggaboo? You have to use a computer to activate the shift+link on the 9500ix or it doesn't link? That needs fixing! IMO, options should come alive once linked (without the need for a computer).

After getting everything set, I tested the heads with a remote control. Ahhh...this is where the link is nice...plus that remote mute/shift off feature will help me out as my mute on the 9500ix is up against the headliner (direct wire...tight fit...hidden...no access). So I need that remote mute for marking and TrueLocking locations, thus another reason I chose the ZR4. The "Laser" display on the 9500ix is very nice! Shows the direction and "shifting" on/off status of laser. It mutes the audio alarm after a quick short alert at under 20 MPH (I like that). Control of the shifting turn-off can be done with two LONG presses of the remote button. For some reason quick short presses did not do the job (hummm). Anyway, I did a few more tests on the road. Interesting how the 9500ix alerted in a marked Speed Trap area. I have Voice turned off, and while triggering laser in the marked area it alerted "LASER F" on the display, and voice announced "Speed Trap" several times while in the area. Cool! I like that. I did not use the ZR4 control box at all (disconnected) and all display and control was done from the 9500ix and remote button. It all worked well together. Clean and neat setup.

Once I get the transmitters up to power it should be a cool system. I told Belscort what yall said, and that they need to step up the TX power to match the competition, and provide a cheap upgrade option for current ZR4 users (new head plug-ins). They were sort of defending their system, but sounded like they know this already. One could only hope they have something in the works and will release it soon.

More reports to come once mounted! And TX research is ongoing. ;)

Phil :cool:

[Stealth Stalker]

We agree on that. Clearly, the M27 is a better buy and a better performer. What we disagree on is that he seems to feel that the ZR4s are totally useless, while I feel that they perform reasonably well on certain vehicles.
I believe they are totally useless on this particular vehicle, which is pretty much what the discussion should be limited to here, in order to not lead the OP astray.

On the smallest, blackest, most Veiled-out cars imaginable, I have seen a ZR provide "decent" protection on occasion. By decent, I mean yellow to orange performance on the GOL scale. But is that really decent? Most of the time, no, it still won't save you. So technical performance standards, and standards of what will actually save you in a real life encounter are two different things, and I prefer to keep it real. And in the real world, there is no such thing as "decent" performance. It either works, and works under all common circumstances, or it doesn't. The ZR doesn't.

[Idontgo55]

I would agree on Stealth Stalker on this matter. For a price difference of $30, there's an exceptional increase in performance with the M27.We agree on that. Clearly, the M27 is a better buy and a better performer. What we disagree on is that he seems to feel that the ZR4s are totally useless, while I feel that they perform reasonably well on certain vehicles.

ZR4's do quite well on some vehicles, especially when combined with Veil as DJ has shown with his vehicle.

ZR4's also do much better in the wild than in testing as Erick has shown with his many high speed saves in the past.

...Erick used old Zr3 ... I know they are pretty much the same just saying

[PHILBERT]

Did a little more ZR4 & 9500ix testing yesterday heading up 95 and out SR60 to Lakeland and back. Tested the laser alerting while getting shot with Ka. I found that laser alerts overide everything. No multiple threat indications...only F LASER or R LASER (or alternating F & R). No surprise really. I just wanted to see what would happen. It took a second or two to see the Ka alert after the laser alert cleared. Should not be a problem if you have slowed to PSL, but good to know.

Getting back to the "white whale" for a moment...can anyone point me to some vids of a big white vehicle being painted with lidar where only the white surface of the vehicle is giving readings? No H/L shots or plate shots...just white paint. As a side note, FL has no front plate. I'm looking for a lock demo on white paint alone with distance readings.

Phil :cool:

[Stealth Stalker]

Just look at the GOL results. Shots are separated by center mass and headlight shots. Center mass punchthrough is every bit as likely as headlight punchthrough, if not more so.

And, as always, it doesn't friggin' matter what part of your car is or is not protected, because cops shot the entire vehicle before you even know it. Their aim is not good enough to limit a shot to JUST a headlight or JUST your center mass, so there is no logic in trying to play those odds.

[PHILBERT]

Just look at the GOL results. Shots are separated by center mass and headlight shots. Center mass punchthrough is every bit as likely as headlight punchthrough, if not more so.

And, as always, it doesn't friggin' matter what part of your car is or is not protected, because cops shot the entire vehicle before you even know it. Their aim is not good enough to limit a shot to JUST a headlight or JUST your center mass, so there is no logic in trying to play those odds.

I'm just trying to view some video that shows what white paint reflects. Nothing more. And I do not have a front plate here in Florida, so the only CM to shoot is paint.

Can you please provide a link or two (or more) showing white paint reflecting lidar and locking a speed reading? I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

Phil

[Idontgo55]

Just look at the GOL results. Shots are separated by center mass and headlight shots. Center mass punchthrough is every bit as likely as headlight punchthrough, if not more so.

And, as always, it doesn't friggin' matter what part of your car is or is not protected, because cops shot the entire vehicle before you even know it. Their aim is not good enough to limit a shot to JUST a headlight or JUST your center mass, so there is no logic in trying to play those odds.

I'm just trying to view some video that shows what white paint reflects. Nothing more. And I do not have a front plate here in Florida, so the only CM to shoot is paint.

Can you please provide a link or two (or more) showing white paint reflecting lidar and locking a speed reading? I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

Phil

You just asked somebody to prove something anybody should know about how white cars are hard to protect?

.....Try Google and get your own link how reflecting of a color white is

[PHILBERT]

Just look at the GOL results. Shots are separated by center mass and headlight shots. Center mass punchthrough is every bit as likely as headlight punchthrough, if not more so.

And, as always, it doesn't friggin' matter what part of your car is or is not protected, because cops shot the entire vehicle before you even know it. Their aim is not good enough to limit a shot to JUST a headlight or JUST your center mass, so there is no logic in trying to play those odds.

I'm just trying to view some video that shows what white paint reflects. Nothing more. And I do not have a front plate here in Florida, so the only CM to shoot is paint.

Can you please provide a link or two (or more) showing white paint reflecting lidar and locking a speed reading? I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

Phil

You just asked somebody to prove something anybody should know about how white cars are hard to protect?

.....Try Google and get your own link how reflecting of a color white is

Well I hear that from people, and I watched many GOL tests (non-white vehicles) where they punch through CM on reflective reg plates (I do not have a plate on the front, so what center mass is there to hit?) and headlight shots (we all have those). Where is the proof? I googled laser/lidar/white/etc... and no videos of white laser tests came up. That is why I'm asking here. So where is the evidence that white paint is any worse. That is all I'm asking for. Is that so hard??? :rolleyes:

Maybe it is. I just want to see how bad it really is. No chrome, and no tailpipes ( :D ), just white paint. Can you help a brutha out? Anybody?

Phil :cool:

[The Chariot]

Phil,

With all due respect, why are you trying to buck the wisdom of a bunch of guys who have been at this for a while? I've only been around a few months, but have already seen a ton of vehicles being tested (not in videos, actually being there). The base line numbers (jammers turned off) are worse with white, red and lots of chrome, verses black and flat paint. I've witnessed about 20 vehicles in testing so far, some of these guys have seen many times more than that. 99% of the testing with no front plate and its obvious to even a relative newbie like me that color plays a huge part. If laser guns can punch through a low profile light colored sports car with the best jammers on the market spaced too far apart .... they'll have no problem owning what for all intents is a moving white wall.

It seems to me you're trying to convince yourself that spending on the cheap for jammers on a tough to protect vehicle will protect you.... it probably won't. Convince yourself at your own peril... ultimately its you who will pay the ticket, not us. I was like you... I gulped when I looked at the cost of good protection (not just the jammers, but a good RD, radio, Veil, etc.). I searched for used older jammer systems, looked at tons of online tests and videos, tried to convince myself that I didn't speed enough to warrant the money (the truth is, I do). I finally broke down and did what I had to do and bought a Blinder M47.

Look at it this way, do you want to spend $250-$300 for a system which doesn't work (ie, a complete waste of money), or spend more to step up and buy something which does work? I can tell you I don't regret my choice not to get ZR4s.

[Stealth Stalker]

Maybe it is. I just want to see how bad it really is. No chrome, and no tailpipes ( :D ), just white paint. Can you help a brutha out? Anybody?
First, you have to be willing to accept help.

Dude, we can get laser readings off of dirt. Mass is mass. Some is so reflective that it can be had instantaneously at any angle. Some takes a fraction of a second longer. But ALL mass can be read with laser.

Your vehicle is a lot of mass. And as we have told you multiple times, and even shown you pictures, SOLID BLACK MINI-CARS WITH NO CHROME OR LICENCE PLATE still get immediate readings without a jammer, and even with a ZR.

No... nobody is interested in wasting their time or breath repeating history for you. Those of us who own a trunkload of LIDAR guns and do this crap every week know what works and what does not. If you're just waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear, well just stick around, because some other idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about is sure to eventually come along. I'm sure that will make you happy, but it will also get you pwnt.

[Idontgo55]

Zr4's -zr3's sure aren't for everybody I got mine before I knew what else was out there......knowing what I do Now I would of got Li's and I will soon

They done pretty well On my dark car with no front place Yes:p I'm 100% for saves on them with lots of 20+mph saves

I got a save of over 90 in a 70 yest afternoon

[thx1138]

....That is why I'm asking here. So where is the evidence that white paint is any worse. That is all I'm asking for. Is that so hard??? :rolleyes:

Maybe it is. I just want to see how bad it really is. No chrome, and no tailpipes ( :D ), just white paint. Can you help a brutha out? Anybody?

Phil :cool:


Why is this data important? I've only attended one laser test event, but I saw vehicles (of all colors) picked off the neighboring interstate at distances approaching 3000ft. Hell, the designated shooter picked of a bird flying 20mph at 500ft. I don't know of any videos of any all white only surfaces, but at those long distances, pretty much anything and everything is getting painted with laser (center of mass and headlights). Your white wall driving down the road will get painted and shoud be readable from a long way away.

It might be best to rent some guns and get your data, benchmark with the unmod'ed ZR4, make your mods and retest. The guys here have a ton of experience, so I'd save the debate until you have a compelling case.

IMO, there are likely other issues with the ZR4 besides the power output.

[PHILBERT]

Maybe it is. I just want to see how bad it really is. No chrome, and no tailpipes ( :D ), just white paint. Can you help a brutha out? Anybody?
First, you have to be willing to accept help.

Dude, we can get laser readings off of dirt. Mass is mass. Some is so reflective that it can be had instantaneously at any angle. Some takes a fraction of a second longer. But ALL mass can be read with laser.

Your vehicle is a lot of mass. And as we have told you multiple times, and even shown you pictures, SOLID BLACK MINI-CARS WITH NO CHROME OR LICENCE PLATE still get immediate readings without a jammer, and even with a ZR.

No... nobody is interested in wasting their time or breath repeating history for you. Those of us who own a trunkload of LIDAR guns and do this crap every week know what works and what does not. If you're just waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear, well just stick around, because some other idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about is sure to eventually come along. I'm sure that will make you happy, but it will also get you pwnt.

Take it easy there, SS. You keep slamming me and I keep trying to offer thanks and appreciation. I heard you a long time ago and understand it. It is starting to appear you have it out for me even though I make my point clear time and time again.

Look, its simple. Just provide a link if you can. Can you give me that answer in the form of a direct link to a video? That is what I asked for. Simple! If not, stop slamming on me. I got your point a long time ago. OK? The ZR4 was a waste of my money and is not going to be effective on my van... I got it. We all agree! And how you can speak for everybody is beyond me. I'm not looking for validation, OK? Got that?

BUT what you didn't get, even though I said it over and over again, is that I'm not looking to speed excessively. I mostly want to be aware of what is going on around me. I want to see if I can mod it for better performance...just for fun. And I plan to make it stronger if can. Did you hear that part? Because you never acknowledged that one time. The tech part is the other thing I like about all this detector stuff. Maybe I can, and maybe I will not be able to...whatever...its not your problem. No need to repeat the same "its not going to work" over and over. Can you just let me have my fun and stop condescending me on all your posts here? If you can answer my specific questions, I would be grateful. Up to this point you have not answered any of my specific questions. You are not helping me.

And please don't put words in my mouth or pretend to know what you think I am thinking in my head. It's not your place to do so. It is clear you know nothing about me.

I'm glad you have all the guns and experience that you have. I like learning from you and everyone who does this stuff. Hats off to you and the guys who do it and share. Can't you be a little cooperative when I ask specifically for some information? There is no need to "read into it" beyond what I have stated very clearly. Who knows?...maybe someday I might have something to offer you. Do you think that is possible?

As a final note...I am not here for a pissing match.

Peace!

[Idontgo55]

PHILBERT....Have u ever shoot laser? yes you're the one bashing making people prove things that isn't how this is..... and you shouldn't second guess people on here Really people who been around

[PHILBERT]

....That is why I'm asking here. So where is the evidence that white paint is any worse. That is all I'm asking for. Is that so hard??? :rolleyes:

Maybe it is. I just want to see how bad it really is. No chrome, and no tailpipes ( :D ), just white paint. Can you help a brutha out? Anybody?

Phil :cool:


Why is this data important? I've only attended one laser test event, but I saw vehicles (of all colors) picked off the neighboring interstate at distances approaching 3000ft. Hell, the designated shooter picked of a bird flying 20mph at 500ft. I don't know of any videos of any all white only surfaces, but at those long distances, pretty much anything and everything is getting painted with laser (center of mass and headlights). Your white wall driving down the road will get painted and shoud be readable from a long way away.

It might be best to rent some guns and get your data, benchmark with the unmod'ed ZR4, make your mods and retest. The guys here have a ton of experience, so I'd save the debate until you have a compelling case.

IMO, there are likely other issues with the ZR4 besides the power output.

I dunno...I just want to see it because I have not been able to so far. I do not have any guns to test with.

I read that about the bird! Funny! Sounds like you guys had fun that day. Sorry I missed that as I'm right in the area.

And no debate here. I'm not sure an LI would help my "white whale". Who knows...I might get one of those too. I need the van for work...and I also play guitar in a band and take amps and up to 10 guitars with me. The space is good inside when you take out the middle seats. The small flat black speedy car is not an option right now.

Well if I do get something going that puts out the power, I will share it here. No need to make any "case". There is none. It's only fun for me. Why do I have to keep saying that?

[Idontgo55]

....That is why I'm asking here. So where is the evidence that white paint is any worse. That is all I'm asking for. Is that so hard??? :rolleyes:

Maybe it is. I just want to see how bad it really is. No chrome, and no tailpipes ( :D ), just white paint. Can you help a brutha out? Anybody?

Phil :cool:


Why is this data important? I've only attended one laser test event, but I saw vehicles (of all colors) picked off the neighboring interstate at distances approaching 3000ft. Hell, the designated shooter picked of a bird flying 20mph at 500ft. I don't know of any videos of any all white only surfaces, but at those long distances, pretty much anything and everything is getting painted with laser (center of mass and headlights). Your white wall driving down the road will get painted and shoud be readable from a long way away.

It might be best to rent some guns and get your data, benchmark with the unmod'ed ZR4, make your mods and retest. The guys here have a ton of experience, so I'd save the debate until you have a compelling case.

IMO, there are likely other issues with the ZR4 besides the power output.

I dunno...I just want to see it because I have not been able to so far. I do not have any guns to test with.

I read that about the bird! Funny! Sounds like you guys had fun that day. Sorry I missed that as I'm right in the area.

And no debate here. I'm not sure an LI would help my "white whale". Who knows...I might get one of those too. I need the van for work...and I also play guitar in a band and take amps and up to 10 guitars with me. The space is good inside when you take out the middle seats. The small flat black speedy car is not an option right now.

Well if I do get something going that puts out the power, I will share it here. No need to make any "case". There is none. It's only fun for me. Why do I have to keep saying that?

How fast can that white whale go?

[PHILBERT]

PHILBERT....Have u ever shoot laser? yes you're the one bashing making people prove things that isn't how this is..... and you shouldn't second guess people on here Really people who been around

Bashing? yeah right! That is funny!

Arn't you the guy who keeps JTG the cops like four times in a row cause of what they did to you? The one who doesn't care if there is a law against jamming because of your toying with the cops???

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/detector-counter-measure-testing-reviews/57183-zr3s-no-veil-vs-lbr-lz1-pl3-6.html

[Stealth Stalker]

Look, its simple. Just provide a link if you can. [B]Can you give me that answer in the form of a direct link to a video?
No. I cannot. And I can't provide you a link to a video proving that gravity exists either, but it does. And because it is proven science, few people waste time searching for or bookmarking videos of it. But, had you spent the time searching for vids that you have spent here arguing, you'd have found them by now.

Being a sceptic is one thing. That's healthy. But just being stubborn is quite another thing. You crossed that line a long time ago.

[The Chariot]

There are over 1000 laser jammer videos on youtube, plus videos on a plethora of other sites. Its not our job to index videos based on vehicle, color, etc., and do your work for you. I'm sure you're well versed enough to use search on Google and youtube to find what you're looking for.

[Idontgo55]

PHILBERT....Have u ever shoot laser? yes you're the one bashing making people prove things that isn't how this is..... and you shouldn't second guess people on here Really people who been around

Bashing? yeah right! That is funny!

Arn't you the guy who keeps JTG the cops like four times in a row cause of what they did to you? The one who doesn't care if there is a law against jamming because of your toying with the cops???

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/detector-counter-measure-testing-reviews/57183-zr3s-no-veil-vs-lbr-lz1-pl3-6.html


Whats it to you ? theres no reason to post the link you can't read my username?

And Yes I thought My two clicks mute didn't kill the shifters done test and it don't say shifters off right away ...so I didn't

That whale wouldn't get a JTG on any gun ...I'm welling to beat on that

Now my much smaller Darker Gray Car will...I'm welling to bet you bashing people after and after wont get you far here

[PHILBERT]

There are over 1000 laser jammer videos on youtube, plus videos on a plethora of other sites. Its not our job to index videos based on vehicle, color, etc., and do your work for you. I'm sure you're well versed enough to use search on Google and youtube to find what you're looking for.

Job? Jeeez! What job? If you can't (or will not) provide a link, then fine. But why post all this crap if you are not willing to offer anything?

I think some here are just looking for a fight. I'm not!

[Idontgo55]

Guy sometimes it's just not worth it he has a white van ....and hes Also in a band His ZR4's ARE JTG on all guns ...the end:rolleyes:

[The Chariot]

There are over 1000 laser jammer videos on youtube, plus videos on a plethora of other sites. Its not our job to index videos based on vehicle, color, etc., and do your work for you. I'm sure you're well versed enough to use search on Google and youtube to find what you're looking for.

Job? Jeeez! What job? If you can't (or will not) provide a link, then fine. But why post all this crap if you are not willing to offer anything?

I think some here are just looking for a fight. I'm not!

Its not a matter of can't, its a matter of I doubt anyone is going to spend 30 minutes combing through youtube videos for your benefit. No one is looking for a fight, but you have to understand what you're posting is the same stuff, different day --- ie, new person comes here, bucks the collective wisdom of the site, gets defensive when the experienced users explain their experience and then demands the old timers spend their time proving something which the newcomer could do themselves with a few simple web and forum searches. The people here will bend over backwards to help you, spend their time freely testing your setup if you're local, if you just listen to them and trust that they really are trying to help you get the best setup you can.

[category4]

There are over 1000 laser jammer videos on youtube, plus videos on a plethora of other sites. Its not our job to index videos based on vehicle, color, etc., and do your work for you. I'm sure you're well versed enough to use search on Google and youtube to find what you're looking for.

Job? Jeeez! What job? If you can't (or will not) provide a link, then fine. But why post all this crap if you are not willing to offer anything?

I think some here are just looking for a fight. I'm not!

Its not a matter of can't, its a matter of I doubt anyone is going to spend 30 minutes combing through youtube videos for your benefit. No one is looking for a fight, but you have to understand what you're posting is the same stuff, different day --- ie, new person comes here, bucks the collective wisdom of the site, gets defensive when the experienced users explain their experience and then demands the old timers spend their time proving something which the newcomer could do themselves with a few simple web and forum searches. The people here will bend over backwards to help you, spend their time freely testing your setup if you're local, if you just listen to then and trust that they really are trying to help you get the best setup you can.

X2!!

OP, it's your money, your time, your ticket. It's nothing off our backs should you choose to ignore the advice you find here.

If you stay within 10 of the PSL the ZR4's will do fine for you, then again no jammer would give the same results. Unless you are running more than 10 over 95% of all LEO's are not going to bother you.

If you want the ZR4's to test and modify to compare results, the the big white whale will certainly be a great test vehicle. Please keep us informed of the results. Most of us here are pretty certain of what they will be.

[CJR238]

If you're just waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear, well just stick around, because some other idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about is sure to eventually come along. I'm sure that will make you happy, but it will also get you pwnt.

Ok, ok, im here! :D Problem is i know what im talking about. :)

PHILBERT, The Zr4's are a well made jammers and MEM-TEK's mod worked quite well. Good luck with the mod because most of us wouldn't even attempt trying when we could just buy a jammer that jamms better. Even if one of us had MEM-TEC's plans. :)

I too have the ZR4's for situational awareness (laser alerting and rear/front laser warnings). I hope to have some real world encounters to reinforce my feelings of laser awareness/alerting can equate to a save or at least prevent accelerating passed the LEO's speed tolerance. In the end if i got more laser hits i too would upgrade my jammers, but like you i get hit with laser infrequently. So my ZR4's are there more for fun, and isn't this what its all about? :)

Though SS is 100% correct with his comments, sometimes its a bit one sided and doesn't take into account that some people don't mind spending money just for fun, and resulting in diminutive performance.

[Stealth Stalker]

...some people don't mind spending money just for fun, and resulting in diminutive performance.
Hey, I got into this whole hobby just for the fun of it, not because I speed. I do understand that. But I just don't see any "fun" in failed performance. If I wanted failed performance, I could have just not bought a jammer at all and enjoyed the same thing!

[CJR238]

...some people don't mind spending money just for fun, and resulting in diminutive performance.
Hey, I got into this whole hobby just for the fun of it, not because I speed. I do understand that. But I just don't see any "fun" in failed performance. If I wanted failed performance, I could have just not bought a jammer at all and enjoyed the same thing!

Very true, but a RD is a lot less consistent to alerting to laser hits than any jammer. So someone with a ZR4 will have more fun being alerted to laser hits than a RD user, especially a Belscort RD user. :)

Plus the ZR4 Escort RD interface is quite nice and easy.

[DrCoke]

I'll be testing his setup very soon, if someone around me have a video camera, we can record Moby D!ck in action and have a confirm case of a white whale vs a lidar gun.

Heres a pic of my car just before I sold it. I removed the ZR4. They were placed in the upper grill as close to the head lights a possible and 2 light coats of veil. WIthout jammers, reading occured at 1,000ft with Stealth Stalker as the shooter. JTG with PL3 and PT at under 400ft everytime with Ultralyte and Stalker. I can get JTG to PT <400ft with the TruSpeed on this ride. Again, my car is the best case senario for the zr4 and the zr4 does a respectable job. After 5 years of owning jammers, lidar threats have increased 10X in the last year and most are ambushed <500ft. This is were owning the ZR4 is dangerous, FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. My new ride is a Silver s2000 and just because of the color, I know the ZR4 will not protect me at all even on a low profile car. Solution, I bought the new LI and JTG all guns.

[CJR238]

I'll be testing his setup very soon, if someone around me have a video camera, we can record Moby D!ck in action and have a confirm case of a white whale vs a lidar gun.

Heres a pic of my car just before I sold it. I removed the ZR4. They were placed in the upper grill as close to the head lights a possible and 2 light coats of veil. WIthout jammers, reading occured at 1,000ft with Stealth Stalker as the shooter. JTG with PL3 and PT at under 400ft everytime with Ultralyte and Stalker. I can get JTG to PT <400ft with the TruSpeed on this ride. Again, my car is the best case senario for the zr4 and the zr4 does a respectable job. After 5 years of owning jammers, lidar threats have increased 10X in the last year and most are ambushed <500ft. This is were owning the ZR4 is dangerous, FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. My new ride is a Silver s2000 and just because of the color, I know the ZR4 will not protect me at all even on a low profile car. Solution, I bought the new LI and JTG all guns.

Good info. Though my car is a dark gray and the nose is similar I have little fathe in my ZR4's, but i figure its better than just a RD'd laser defense system.

[Idontgo55]

Zr3's do me fine.... save of 90+ mph yest

[DrCoke]

Good info. Though my car is a dark gray and the nose is similar I have little fathe in my ZR4's, but i figure its better than just a RD'd laser defense system.

I think your the one with the TL. My Guess on your car consistant PT would occur around 700 ft. Your advantage if any over my black car is you got HID lights.

[PHILBERT]

If you're just waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear, well just stick around, because some other idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about is sure to eventually come along. I'm sure that will make you happy, but it will also get you pwnt.

Ok, ok, im here! :D Problem is i know what im talking about. :)

PHILBERT, The Zr4's are a well made jammers and MEM-TEK's mod worked quite well. Good luck with the mod because most of us wouldn't even attempt trying when we could just buy a jammer that jamms better. Even if one of us had MEM-TEC's plans. :)

I too have the ZR4's for situational awareness (laser alerting and rear/front laser warnings). I hope to have some real world encounters to reinforce my feelings of laser awareness/alerting can equate to a save or at least prevent accelerating passed the LEO's speed tolerance. In the end if i got more laser hits i too would upgrade my jammers, but like you i get hit with laser infrequently. So my ZR4's are there more for fun, and isn't this what its all about? :)

Though SS is 100% correct with his comments, sometimes its a bit one sided and doesn't take into account that some people don't mind spending money just for fun, and resulting in diminutive performance.



...some people don't mind spending money just for fun, and resulting in diminutive performance.
Hey, I got into this whole hobby just for the fun of it, not because I speed. I do understand that. But I just don't see any "fun" in failed performance. If I wanted failed performance, I could have just not bought a jammer at all and enjoyed the same thing!




...some people don't mind spending money just for fun, and resulting in diminutive performance.
Hey, I got into this whole hobby just for the fun of it, not because I speed. I do understand that. But I just don't see any "fun" in failed performance. If I wanted failed performance, I could have just not bought a jammer at all and enjoyed the same thing!

Very true, but a RD is a lot less consistent to alerting to laser hits than any jammer. So someone with a ZR4 will have more fun being alerted to laser hits than a RD user, especially a Belscort RD user. :)

Plus the ZR4 Escort RD interface is quite nice and easy.


I'll be testing his setup very soon, if someone around me have a video camera, we can record Moby D!ck in action and have a confirm case of a white whale vs a lidar gun.

Heres a pic of my car just before I sold it. I removed the ZR4. They were placed in the upper grill as close to the head lights a possible and 2 light coats of veil. WIthout jammers, reading occured at 1,000ft with Stealth Stalker as the shooter. JTG with PL3 and PT at under 400ft everytime with Ultralyte and Stalker. I can get JTG to PT <400ft with the TruSpeed on this ride. Again, my car is the best case senario for the zr4 and the zr4 does a respectable job. After 5 years of owning jammers, lidar threats have increased 10X in the last year and most are ambushed <500ft. This is were owning the ZR4 is dangerous, FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. My new ride is a Silver s2000 and just because of the color, I know the ZR4 will not protect me at all even on a low profile car. Solution, I bought the new LI and JTG all guns.



I'll be testing his setup very soon, if someone around me have a video camera, we can record Moby D!ck in action and have a confirm case of a white whale vs a lidar gun.

Heres a pic of my car just before I sold it. I removed the ZR4. They were placed in the upper grill as close to the head lights a possible and 2 light coats of veil. WIthout jammers, reading occured at 1,000ft with Stealth Stalker as the shooter. JTG with PL3 and PT at under 400ft everytime with Ultralyte and Stalker. I can get JTG to PT <400ft with the TruSpeed on this ride. Again, my car is the best case senario for the zr4 and the zr4 does a respectable job. After 5 years of owning jammers, lidar threats have increased 10X in the last year and most are ambushed <500ft. This is were owning the ZR4 is dangerous, FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. My new ride is a Silver s2000 and just because of the color, I know the ZR4 will not protect me at all even on a low profile car. Solution, I bought the new LI and JTG all guns.

Good info. Though my car is a dark gray and the nose is similar I have little fathe in my ZR4's, but i figure its better than just a RD'd laser defense system.

THANK YOU ALL for giving me some love here! :o

I'm really telling you the truth when I say I admire all the testing, trials, equipment measuring, and mounting / stealthing you all do. Looks like a H3LL of allot of fun. I watched many many videos over the last few weeks...and many about 5 years ago. All the GOL stuff...Veil Guy stuff...Just about ran out of stuff to watch! When you get nothing but the same stuff on YouTube, you feel tapped out...at least I did.

The passion and "sport" that you guys put into this hobby (?) is much like the passion I put into my hobbies. I see that, and can relate. Is this a new hobby for me? Could be. Depends on how much I can do with it. Gotta start somewhere, but old white Moby Dick is a hard one to stealth. It could take time to "build my defenses", and even then it might be impossible to JTG the tough ones...even with an LI. And who knows...I might get one of those in a couple of weeks. I watched how it announced what type of laser it was getting hit with and thought that was super cool.

I need to buy a black grille to mount my front heads. I have been searching some, but not finding many reasonable priced 2005 grilles. I can't do much until I get that on. But I'm working on it.

And Dr.Coke, thanks for that offer. I'll be in touch real soon. I have a court date in the morning for a false accusation against my wife (insurance fraud scam). I hope I can present evidence that will clear her. :( I was working on that this weekend. No fun there.

Thanks again guys.

[djrams80]

Ok, ok, im here! :D Problem is i know what im talking about. :)You do? Have you ever shot a lidar gun?

[Idontgo55]

Ok, ok, im here! :D Problem is i know what im talking about. :)You do? Have you ever shot a lidar gun?

who hasn't? :p:p I even got hell for it by the leos

[CJR238]

Ok, ok, im here! :D Problem is i know what im talking about. :)You do? Have you ever shot a lidar gun?

Only in fun with my cop friends, but they wouldn't let me play with it much. :mad: Figured id shoot an eye out. :)

The point PHILBERT was making didn't have much to do with shooting a Lidar gun and neater was mine.

[CJR238]

Good info. Though my car is a dark gray and the nose is similar I have little fathe in my ZR4's, but i figure its better than just a RD'd laser defense system.

I think your the one with the TL. My Guess on your car consistant PT would occur around 700 ft. Your advantage if any over my black car is you got HID lights.

Thanks, was hoping the HID's on my TL would do something, but without testing i can always just hope.

[djrams80]

Only in fun with my cop friends, but they wouldn't let me play with it much. :mad: Figured id shoot an eye out. :)

The point PHILBERT was making didn't have much to do with shooting a Lidar gun and neater was mine.My point is that you said you know about laser jammer. Based on what, since you have basically no experience with them, or with testing them?

[CJR238]

Only in fun with my cop friends, but they wouldn't let me play with it much. :mad: Figured id shoot an eye out. :)

The point PHILBERT was making didn't have much to do with shooting a Lidar gun and neater was mine.My point is that you said you know about laser jammer. Based on what, since you have basically no experience with them, or with testing them?

I volunteered to be SS's idiot, but to express another opinion with my experience. Everyone clearly pushed the point that the ZR4's don't jam and there is allot to learn. Only a few listened to PHILBERT's point, if not just wanting to learn on his own, and/or getting the ZR4's for fun.

Who knows how to discuss the less traveled side more than me? I felt obligated to point out another point of view.

I'm perfectly happy with my ZR4's alerting consistently and not jamming very well, just like PHILBERT. Its a hobby, fun entertainment, so for me I don't really care about the small percentages that all the diehards focus on or even the big ones. I'm sure PHILBERT will take it all into account and decide when the time is right to upgrade his system like everyone else.

[Stealth Stalker]

This "game" or "hobby" is a war. And in order to win a war, you have to know your enemy as well as you know yourself, if not better. That's why so many people who think they know what they are talking about do not. They only know our side of the game. They assume they know they competition, but they do not. There are those here who own LIDAR guns that still obviously do not understand the competition. In fact, I find it to be the truly rare enthusiast who really has a clue about LEO mindset and tactics.

[The Chariot]

That's a bit vague. What do they not know about the tactics? Inquiring minds want to know :)

[Stealth Stalker]

It's more about the mindset than the tactics.

But neither will be posted here. This is the sort of thing that is passed on only person-to-person.

[category4]

What's different about the tactics than any hunter would use to get his prey?

Seek the high ground, stay hidden, keep the sun in the eyes of your enemy and other basic hunting strategies. We are nothing more than the prey!

[CJR238]

What's different about the tactics than any hunter would use to get his prey?

Seek the high ground, stay hidden, keep the sun in the eyes of your enemy and other basic hunting strategies. We are nothing more than the prey!

I think SS is talking about how there mindset effects there tactics and response. Officers are certainly a unique people, and just a bit crazy.

[category4]

What's different about the tactics than any hunter would use to get his prey?

Seek the high ground, stay hidden, keep the sun in the eyes of your enemy and other basic hunting strategies. We are nothing more than the prey!

I think SS is talking about how there mindset effects there tactics and response. Officers are certainly a unique people, and just a bit crazy.

Aren't we all? If we weren't crazy we would just drive the PSL!!!

[PHILBERT]

I'll agree that it is becoming more and more of a war. This country is loosing its freedoms more and more every day. It is getting ugly, and it always comes down to power, control, and money.

I have cop friends who are good guys for the most part, but they look at civilians different than most of us. I also know a couple who are mentally unfit and should never have been allowed to enter law enFORCEment in the first place. I hear that side of it, and sometimes I just have to keep my opinion to myself or I'll get in trouble. Makes me sick at times.

With my detector, knowing where they are helps me to stay as far away as possible. That is why I purchased my first one back in the early 80's. I had some bad experiences and wanted to know when I was being watched. It worked...and today it is the same...gotta know where and what is going on, and avoid abuse as much as possible. Not that I'm doing anything wrong! But today you don't have to do anything wrong to get harassed by abuse of power.

[snoopyc4]

:lol: So we went from talking about the ZR4 to LEOs mindset.

For me, I don't think anyone can really master a LEO's mindset because each individual LEO is unique in some forum or fashion and you don't know their uniqueness unless you've known them your whole life or work with them frequently. For example, some LEOs will allow 5 over and others 15. Some are trigger happy with I/O and others wait forever until they feel they have found a prime suspect. So, when your driving down the open highway, you really don't know the mindset of the LEOs you are going against because each individual LEO in that area is unique. Even if you have been commuting in a little area or on a little segment of highway your whole life, you still don't know their mindset because there is another factor that is always present: change. A LEO can change his or her tactics from say C/O to I/O at a moment's notice whether this is due to boredom or curiosity.

This factor of change, IMO, is one of the biggest reasons why LEOs always have the advantage. Because you can be commuting in an area where you have seen C/O all the time and BAM! you get hit with I/O because your local wanted to try something new out. Or you get hit with laser in an area where you've never seen it before because your local PD recently got a small grant and bought a new laser gun.

:) But hey, we can't sit here crying about it. It is all apart of the game and we have to equip ourselves as best we can to be prepared for anything the LEOs throw at us. And encountering those new tactics can be fun at times and at other times may cost us a ticket. That is why speeding always has me excited yet anxious at the same time.

[Stealth Stalker]

You hit the nail on the head, Snoopy! And that is really my point. Too many self-proclaimed experts are always talking about, "Cops never do this!" or "cops always do that!", as if they are a homogenous group. They are not. Understanding that is the first step in understanding the LEO mindset and how to work it.

[Idontgo55]

Ok, ok, im here! :D Problem is i know what im talking about. :)You do? Have you ever shot a lidar gun?

Only in fun with my cop friends, but they wouldn't let me play with it much. :mad: Figured id shoot an eye out. :)

The point PHILBERT was making didn't have much to do with shooting a Lidar gun and neater was mine.

More like blind you and what dummy would shoot it and look at the gun ?

[The Chariot]

SS,

That fits right in line with why I keep my eyes open and try to drive with my eyes as far in the distance as possible, and always have a car well ahead of me. They can be any where, any time and in the most oddball places. Foul weather... you can't take for granted. I've watched the LEO's in a nearby city area change their approach constantly. Sunday it was moving CO, whereas they usually use stationary IO. Anyone watching the evolution of Fritter's tactics can figure out some of them learn, hone their skills, try different approaches. Some LEOs even come to forums, sucker in a few users, act like they are pals when in fact they are not, etc. The fox in the hen house can be slick indeed. Hens like thinking they have a fox on their side but sooner or later they become lunch, unless they used to be a fox themselves or currently carry a badge.

LEOs have nothing to lose by trying different tactics, whereas we do.

[CJR238]

What's different about the tactics than any hunter would use to get his prey?

Seek the high ground, stay hidden, keep the sun in the eyes of your enemy and other basic hunting strategies. We are nothing more than the prey!

I think SS is talking about how there mindset effects there tactics and response. Officers are certainly a unique people, and just a bit crazy.

Aren't we all? If we weren't crazy we would just drive the PSL!!!

Very true, you want to get to know an officer go drinking with them, just remember you might loose them if you try to follow them in your car.

[PHILBERT]

I'm having some trouble finding a black grille for my 05 Sedona. Anyone know where I can get a cheap grille?

[Qui-Gon]

I'm having some trouble finding a black grille for my 05 Sedona. Anyone know where I can get a cheap grille?

Try a local junkyard first. If it has that plastic chrome look, get a can of flat black spraypaint. Just my 2 cents...

[PHILBERT]

I'm having some trouble finding a black grille for my 05 Sedona. Anyone know where I can get a cheap grille?

Try a local junkyard first. If it has that plastic chrome look, get a can of flat black spraypaint. Just my 2 cents...

Yea...never thought of that. Was thinking new, but it doesn't have to be new at all.

Thanks.

[CJR238]

I'm having some trouble finding a black grille for my 05 Sedona. Anyone know where I can get a cheap grille?

Try a local junkyard first. If it has that plastic chrome look, get a can of flat black spraypaint. Just my 2 cents...

x2, did this with one of my old cars.

[PHILBERT]

I'm having some trouble finding a black grille for my 05 Sedona. Anyone know where I can get a cheap grille?

Try a local junkyard first. If it has that plastic chrome look, get a can of flat black spraypaint. Just my 2 cents...

x2, did this with one of my old cars.

Sounds like a good plan. I'll look around. That way if I sell the van I can put the original grille back...no harm done.

Thanks!

[Dead Aim]

Do ZR4's do worse than ZR3's? Does anybody have any data on how much coverage per head is needed for X size vehicle. Has anybody ever done any calculations or is everything yall do just guess + point and shoot?

I didn't see anything in this vein of discussion when I was Google sifting.

[snoopyc4]

Do ZR4's do worse than ZR3's?

The only difference between the ZR3 and ZR4 is that the ZR4s can detect and jam the Laser Atlanta in Stealth Mode. Other than that, they perform the same.

[Dead Aim]

Do they work well against say a Stalker or Ultralyte 20/20?

[The Chariot]

They don't work "well" against anything from what I've seen. They work "okay". If you're serious about this game you need to step up to something better.

[snoopyc4]

Do they work well against say a Stalker or Ultralyte 20/20?

No.

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/detector-counter-measure-testing-reviews/54838-12-19-09-houston-jammer-meet-results.html

[djrams80]

Do they work well against say a Stalker or Ultralyte 20/20?The ZR4s perform especially poor against those two particular guns.

http://www.guysoflidar.com/july-2008/laser-jammer-test.html

[DrCoke]

My BLACK car with VEIL got owned by those 2 guns. ZR3 is JTG/JFG against the PL3 on every run with my black car with veil and no chrome. Its partial JTG on the TruSpeed. I can get a reading off the Truspeed every other run and PT is at 200ft.

[andycj7]

Do they work well against say a Stalker or Ultralyte 20/20?

The ZR4 does horrendously against the Stalker. You might as well not have a jammer at all against the Stalker LZ-1.
The ZR4 does relatively poorly against the Ultralyte as well. The Ultralyte gets punchthroughs at around 700 feet-1400 feet everytime.
It only does well against Laser Atlanta, and sorta decently against the PLIII.

[Dead Aim]

Lol. I so wish I had $1000 dollars laying around.

[Idontgo55]

Do they work well against say a Stalker or Ultralyte 20/20?

These are Zr3's on a dark car zr4's on the front are worth something on a dark color car just not 450bucks retail price rear is worthless

Reading 264 ft from 1,200 start

YouTube - Stalker Lz1 Vs Escort Zr3 1200ft start

reading 364ft from 1,200

YouTube - LBR2020 Vs Zr3 Escort Jammers Run 2

No reading brand new truspeed

YouTube - Tru speed Lidar Vs Mustang Gt with Zr3 laser Jammers

Pro laser 3 --no reading

YouTube - Pro Laser 3 vs Escort zr3's 1200ft start

[andycj7]

You can take something more believable into account, the GOL tests. I wouldn't use Idontgo's videos for testing material for a single second.


http://www.guysoflidar.com/july-2008/08_laser_results.gif

[Idontgo55]

Do they work well against say a Stalker or Ultralyte 20/20?

The ZR4 does horrendously against the Stalker. You might as well not have a jammer at all against the Stalker LZ-1.
The ZR4 does relatively poorly against the Ultralyte as well. The Ultralyte gets punchthroughs at around 700 feet-1400 feet everytime.
It only does well against Laser Atlanta, and sorta decently against the PLIII.

1,000 ft of tryin to get a reading is horrendously? videos prove all

[Idontgo55]

You can take something more believable into account, the GOL tests. I wouldn't use Idontgo's videos for testing material for a single second.


http://www.guysoflidar.com/july-2008/08_laser_results.gif

since a video isn't more believable into account:rolleyes:

[snoopyc4]

Do they work well against say a Stalker or Ultralyte 20/20?

The ZR4 does horrendously against the Stalker. You might as well not have a jammer at all against the Stalker LZ-1.
The ZR4 does relatively poorly against the Ultralyte as well. The Ultralyte gets punchthroughs at around 700 feet-1400 feet everytime.
It only does well against Laser Atlanta, and sorta decently against the PLIII.

1,000 ft of tryin to get a reading is horrendously? videos prove all

Nope. Just because your setup did ok doesn't mean the ZR4s are good. Why? Because everyone's vehicle is different. We have already discussed this is your last thread:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/detector-counter-measure-testing-reviews/57183-zr3s-no-veil-vs-lbr-lz1-pl3.html

Your front end is small and your vehicle is dark. These kind of vehicles have a slight chance of success with the ZR4s. Anything larger is just taking a risk. The person who asked if the ZR4s do well against the UL and Stalker owns a Honda Element; that vehicle is too big for the ZR4s to handle.

[PHILBERT]

If I remember right, the GOL test was done on a big silver car/van type thing with alot of chrome on the front. It was a worst case situation. That explains the difference in results.

No dis-credit at all. It was a good test and I looked at all those numbers a while ago. But different vehicles will produce different results. That is just common sense.

[v1user]

If I remember right, the GOL test was done on a big silver car/van type thing with alot of chrome on the front. It was a worst case situation. That explains the difference in results.

No dis-credit at all. It was a good test and I looked at all those numbers a while ago. But different vehicles will produce different results. That is just common sense.

True, but your vehicle is worst case scenario as well or at least near to it.

[Idontgo55]

If I remember right, the GOL test was done on a big silver car/van type thing with alot of chrome on the front. It was a worst case situation. That explains the difference in results.

No dis-credit at all. It was a good test and I looked at all those numbers a while ago. But different vehicles will produce different results. That is just common sense.

you wouldn't see them testing my car they wouldn't want to post how well they did...that's just how I see it

[andycj7]

In the end, it doesn't matter what the test vehicle was in the GOL tests. It could have been a black, veiled out Honda civic, or a massive Ford F-350.
The results can't be used to grade the jammer's specific strength per say, but they can be used to compare one jammer against the competition's jammer.

When we compare the results, it's obvious that the ZR4 performs poorly when compared to other jammers. Even if we were to switch test vehicles, the results would appear in a similar fashion. We see nobody with LI's complaining about the test vehicle used in the GOL tests. This is because their jammer is competent, strong and always performs well.

[Idontgo55]

In the end, it doesn't matter what the test vehicle was in the GOL tests. It could have been a black, veiled out Honda civic, or a massive Ford F-350.
The results can't be used to grade the jammer's specific strength per say, but they can be used to compare one jammer against the competition's jammer.

When we compare the results, it's obvious that the ZR4 performs poorly when compared to other jammers. Even if we were to switch test vehicles, the results would appear in a similar fashion. We see nobody with LI's complaining about the test vehicle used in the GOL tests. This is because their jammer is competent, strong and always performs well.

And your comment means nothing Since I did see you say you shouldn't even have a jammer up on the lz1 stalker or Ul.... That was so smart

Well anybody will agree any jammer is better then nothing depends on the shooter plus the color of the car

I seen LI get punches far out whats your reason for that?

spending a grand + for a jammer should give you JTG AND JFG nothing else would matter

[snoopyc4]

I seen LI get punches far out whats your reason for that?

Because there is no "perfect" jammer. I've gotten long PTs on the LI myself but from my experience this only happens when I "cheat" and shoot the gun in a manner that is unorthodox (ELVATO style for example) or there is something wrong with the LI setup (heads aren't level or aligned properly). However, if I shoot the gun normally, it is pretty much JTG. When it comes to jammers, you want to try and get the jammer that will give the highest probability of success against a laser speed trap. Right now, that jammer is the LI.


Well anybody will agree any jammer is better then nothing

Not everyone. From the Laser Jammer FAQ:


4. How do I choose a laser jammer?
To properly determine your needs, you first have to assess your risk. This is entirely dependent upon the car you drive. The factors that affect your risk include:
• Size of vehicle – bigger target is easier to hit
• Colour of vehicle – lighter colours reflect laser better
• Shape of vehicle – streamlined and wedge shaped cars like Corvettes have less reflective surfaces than others
• Amount of chrome – chrome bumpers, grilles, badges, and trim reflect laser more than paint
• Front licence plate – the deadliest item on the front of a car. Not having one significantly lowers your risk
• Lights – Headlights are extremely reflective of laser. The bigger they are, the more of a risk they present. Auxiliary lights like fog and driving lights add to that risk.
The more of those factors you have working against you, the more protection you need. If you will post a question to this forum, answering all of the above questions, along with make and model, and posting a photo of your car if possible, the experienced forum members will gladly help you determine what jammers would adequately protect your vehicle. Just be aware that you will spend somewhere between $400 to $700 dollars to protect just the front end of most vehicles. If you have a lot of the above risk factors, that cost could go up to $1200 dollars. Protecting your rear end will double that cost. And looking for the cheapest solution is likely to end up buying you only a false sense of security. Speeding is a pay-to-play game. If you can't afford to play for real, then save your money and slow down.

[djrams80]

you wouldn't see them testing my car they wouldn't want to post how well they did...that's just how I see itWell, you're wrong. It has nothing to do with not wanting to show anything doing well. Whatever results we get, we get. The point of using a difficult to protect vehicle is to seperate the men from the boys. Our testing shows what's better than what. The same is done for RD testing. Choosing a course where all of the detectors alert at the same spot wouldn't help someone choose one detector over another, so courses are chosen that provide performance seperation.

[Stealth Stalker]

1,000 ft of tryin to get a reading is horrendously?
Yep. It doesn't matter if it jammed for two solid miles. It's only that last 500 feet that matters. If you can't jam that last 500 feet -- the average engagement distance -- you're toast.


videos prove all
Exactly. ZR4 is worse than useless.

[Idontgo55]

1,000 ft of tryin to get a reading is horrendously?
Yep. It doesn't matter if it jammed for two solid miles. It's only that last 500 feet that matters. If you can't jam that last 500 feet -- the average engagement distance -- you're toast.


videos prove all
Exactly. ZR4 is worse than useless.


you going to say they don't do well on my car? I showed videos with the best sharp shooter there is

yes since I don't need 1k to slow down I need maybe 200ft

[Idontgo55]

you wouldn't see them testing my car they wouldn't want to post how well they did...that's just how I see itWell, you're wrong. It has nothing to do with not wanting to show anything doing well. Whatever results we get, we get. The point of using a difficult to protect vehicle is to seperate the men from the boys. Our testing shows what's better than what. The same is done for RD testing. Choosing a course where all of the detectors alert at the same spot wouldn't help someone choose one detector over another, so courses are chosen that provide performance seperation.

.... then use smaller cars sayin a jammer is a pos because it didn't do well on a big whale isn't very good point to make color of the car and the size of the front sure helps

That list shows proves nothing I have seen jammers do much better ...maybe bc its not a big whale

I'm sure not happy with the Li on this 07 mustang....

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnZAUmH5o8YudHRkQ2lDalNIUWlEamUtMUhYb09ae VE&hl=en


That proves a lot Li might cost the most not always the best I'd be mad if I spent a grand and got those numbers

That could be only me tho

[Stealth Stalker]

you going to say they don't do well on my car? I showed videos with the best sharp shooter there is
Yep. The fact that he is a sharpshooter is exactly what invalidates your results.

Cops aren't sharpshooters. Comparing their results to his are not valid comparisons.

[Idontgo55]

you going to say they don't do well on my car? I showed videos with the best sharp shooter there is
Yep. The fact that he is a sharpshooter is exactly what invalidates your results.

Cops aren't sharpshooters. Comparing their results to his are not valid comparisons.

Yes if he can get punches it's him that's Rsman ....so that means they couldn't get what he can which makes a pretty good point!!!!! if you ask me

[DrCoke]

Heres there best way to describe the ZR4:
Option 1:
Buy it,
Install it,
Rent the Ultralyte or Stalker,
Record your results,
Uninstall the ZR4,
RMA it.

Option 2:
Buy it,
install it,
rent the PL3 or TruSpeed,
record your results,
keep it,
Get owned by a Leo with an Ultralyte or Stalker.

[djrams80]

.... then use smaller carsI think we're using a cargo van next time.

[Stealth Stalker]

Yes if he can get punches it's him that's Rsman ....so that means they couldn't get what he can which makes a pretty good point!!!!! if you ask me
Apples and oranges. You can NOT extrapolate his results to street cop results. It is a totally invalid comparison, no matter how you look at it. His results are for systematically finding weak spots. Cops results are for real. They simply are not the same thing.

[DrCoke]

.... then use smaller carsI think we're using a cargo van next time.

This car got my vote for the next GOL.

[Idontgo55]

Yes if he can get punches it's him that's Rsman ....so that means they couldn't get what he can which makes a pretty good point!!!!! if you ask me
Apples and oranges. You can NOT extrapolate his results to street cop results. It is a totally invalid comparison, no matter how you look at it. His results are for systematically finding weak spots. Cops results are for real. They simply are not the same thing.

cops aren't as good as him point is....I think he was born to shoot lidar guns



.... then use smaller carsI think we're using a cargo van next time.

...nice so it wont matter yet again!!!!!!

[Stealth Stalker]

cops aren't as good as him point is....I think he was born to shoot lidar guns
I guess I'm not explaining this very well if you're not getting it.

Look at it this way: if someone is the best blackbelt in their little judo club, does that mean that he's likely to be the best streetfighter in town? Of course not. Apples and oranges. One is an art. The other is a skill.

Rsatmans is -- by your own definition -- a "sharpshooter". That is his style of shooting, just like judo is a style of fighting. Cops are not sharpshooters. Their skills are a completely different style. They are more Close Quarter Battle shooters. You cannot directly compare the two any more than you can directly compare Judo and Shotokan. The engagements are totally different. The techniques are totally different. The circumstances are totally different.

If you think that the testing done in GA is the definitive end-all of laser testing, you're completely misunderstanding the character of police LIDAR use, and fooling yourself into a false sense of security.

[djrams80]

This car got my vote for the next GOL.That might work out, if we can't get ahold of a cargo van.

[Idontgo55]

This car got my vote for the next GOL.That might work out, if we can't get ahold of a cargo van.

rent one?????

[DrCoke]

I guess we do have people trying to justify the use of the ZR4. Apples to apples or apples to oranges, I dont care. 75% of my lidar hits are under 500FT. This is a fact. If a jammer cant protect me <500ft, it failed. I personally tested my black Accord with the Ultralyte LR-B, TruSpeed, PL3, Marksman, and LT20./20 and 4/5 of those guns give me PT <500ft and 3/5 is INSTANT PT <500ft on every run. This is a fact. No protection <500ft just means false sense of security. I aimed just like a cop would by shooting directly at the veiled headlights and not EVALTO or RSATMAN style shooting. You can come up with all the excuse you want to validate the zr4 until a cop pulls you over ambush style. We have members here who got tickets because the ZR4 failed as a jammer. Nowhere on this forumn have I read a member got a ticket using the LI.
Heres a Pic of my black car with the ZR4 removed just before I sold the car.

[snoopyc4]

Nowhere on this forumn have I read a member got a ticket using the LI.

:p

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/how-beat-your-ticket/56941-s2000-owned.html

Hey, you had a LI...

[DrCoke]

Nowhere on this forumn have I read a member got a ticket using the LI.

:p

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/how-beat-your-ticket/56941-s2000-owned.html

Hey, you had a LI...

I got owned in the rear :( when I only ran Dual_LI. I'm down for round 2 this time:D. GOt a special suprise for him.

[PHILBERT]

This car got my vote for the next GOL.That might work out, if we can't get ahold of a cargo van.

How about using my white whale...old Moby? :D

[DrCoke]

Moby has mass but doesnt have enough Chrome to give LIs a hard time.

[srtga]

If you think that the testing done in GA is the definitive end-all of laser testing, you're completely misunderstanding the character of police LIDAR use, and fooling yourself into a false sense of security.

What did those Japanese people do to you man?



:D

[DrCoke]

If you think that the testing done in GA is the definitive end-all of laser testing, you're completely misunderstanding the character of police LIDAR use, and fooling yourself into a false sense of security.

What did those Japanese people do to you man?



:D

Gave him a good time ;)

[djrams80]

If you think that the testing done in GA is the definitive end-all of laser testing, you're completely misunderstanding the character of police LIDAR use, and fooling yourself into a false sense of security.

What did those Japanese people do to you man?



:D

Gave him a good time ;)Or is it, "long time"? :D

[CJR238]

If you think that the testing done in GA is the definitive end-all of laser testing, you're completely misunderstanding the character of police LIDAR use, and fooling yourself into a false sense of security.

What did those Japanese people do to you man?



:D

Gave him a good time ;)Or is it, "long time"? :D

That's just not right. :)

[Stealth Stalker]

You guys are horrible. :lol:

Okay, let me try another analogy. You know how much controversy there is over students studying to learn the test instead of studying to actually learn the material, right? Well, relying on conventional testing methods to determine your system's competence is like studying to learn the test answers instead of studying to learn the material of the subject. You may pass the test, but you FAIL at learning the subject, and consequently at competently practising the subject.

A shot from a LEO is not like a shot from Rsatmans. Therefore, studying for one is not equivalent to studying for the other. They are tests for two completely different purposes, with completely different results that cannot be co-extrapolated.

[Idontgo55]

You guys are horrible. :lol:

Okay, let me try another analogy. You know how much controversy there is over students studying to learn the test instead of studying to actually learn the material, right? Well, relying on conventional testing methods to determine your system's competence is like studying to learn the test answers instead of studying to learn the material of the subject. You may pass the test, but you FAIL at learning the subject, and consequently at competently practising the subject.

A shot from a LEO is not like a shot from Rsatmans. Therefore, studying for one is not equivalent to studying for the other. They are tests for two completely different purposes, with completely different results that cannot be co-extrapolated.

he's much better then any leo Or I would of had a few lidar ticket's I have been hit at 25+ with a UL at less then 200 ft that's 100&#37; a ticket on a Sports car

Also a 300ft or less hit at 90+ mph last weekend with a Pl3

If what you said was 100% right Those under 500ft shots would be instant punches on zr3's /zr4's

In this case ......a low end jammer sure saved the day and If I didn't have one I would of got a ticket

That 90 something would of been about 450bucks if not more and no chance of not getting a ticket 100%

[Stealth Stalker]

Sorry bro, but you are obviously simply not getting it. I've done my best to educate you, but I can only lead a horse to water. It's up to you to take a drink.

I really don't care what you understand or what you don't. You're a big boy, and you are happy with what you have. I just don't want you misleading n00bs with your lack of understanding.

[Idontgo55]

Sorry bro, but you are obviously simply not getting it. I've done my best to educate you, but I can only lead a horse to water. It's up to you to take a drink.

I really don't care what you understand or what you don't. You're a big boy, and you are happy with what you have. I just don't want you misleading n00bs with your lack of understanding.

....I'm not sayin they are the best I'm still @ 100% of saves ...I'll be getting m47's this month...which I'm sure you have nothing good to say about those either?

[Stealth Stalker]

I've never tested an M47 personally, so I have no first-hand opinion, which is what I try to limit my commentary to.

I don't doubt that you've had saves. I only seriously doubt that they were due to your ZR3.

[Idontgo55]

I've never tested an M47 personally, so I have no first-hand opinion, which is what I try to limit my commentary to.

I don't doubt that you've had saves. I only seriously doubt that they were due to your ZR3.

:rolleyes:Because 90 mph is slow in fl they let everybody go that right?

you're saying if I had no jammers and got pulled over I might not of got a ticket? i'm welling to say theres no way

[Stealth Stalker]

you're saying if I had no jammers and got pulled over I might not of got a ticket? i'm welling to say theres no way
No. It has nothing to do with the ticket. It has to do with getting pulled over or not.

Regardless, you're getting away from the point, which is that the ZR3 and 4 have consistently FAILED to consistently protect any tested vehicle from organised laser testing. The PLIII is the only time it even comes close, and even then it is consistent fail.

[mahjong007]

SS knows this stuffs. research and opinion from members/threads helps to educated me alot in countermeasures. i wish i did more research before i made my purchase, might have got the LI and 9500ix instead. lol but i am still satisfied with what i have. lol :p

[srtga]

They are tests for two completely different purposes, with completely different results that cannot be co-extrapolated.

What the he!! does his sexual preference have to do with this?

[Stealth Stalker]

What the he!! does his sexual preference have to do with this?
It goes to the witness' character, your Honour!

[Idontgo55]

you're saying if I had no jammers and got pulled over I might not of got a ticket? i'm welling to say theres no way
No. It has nothing to do with the ticket. It has to do with getting pulled over or not.

Regardless, you're getting away from the point, which is that the ZR3 and 4 have consistently FAILED to consistently protect any tested vehicle from organised laser testing. The PLIII is the only time it even comes close, and even then it is consistent fail.

...in my own testing I never had a punch thu higher then 500 on any gun on my car I have seen Li' get high punches at double that...

And Pl3 is a easy JTG so not sure what your getting at Have you ever tested a zr3/4 on a small car? you said you only talk about what you have done

On a car like mine they are enough to give u time to slow down before a ticket and yet they are how many years old??????

[Idontgo55]

SS knows this stuffs. research and opinion from members/threads helps to educated me alot in countermeasures. i wish i did more research before i made my purchase, might have got the LI and 9500ix instead. lol but i am still satisfied with what i have. lol :p

google Li and let me know if you still care to drop a grand+ for them ;)

[The Chariot]

I think you're living in an alternate universe if you believe ZR3/ZR4s are better performers than LIs, and you're digging yourself a huge hole. Its great that it performs good for you, but factually the only thing it has going for it compared to the competition is price. The LIs in tests which do bad are install issues, like that Ferrari, they were spaced so far apart that they got PTs because the beam could paint the center of the car without activating the heads. On the back of that far, where placement wasn't an issue it scored extremely well. And that Super Duty with LIs, it would have been the laughing stock if he'd tried to protect it with ZRs.

If you really believe they are that good why do you have Blinders on the way?

[Idontgo55]

I think you're living in an alternate universe if you believe ZR3/ZR4s are better performers than LIs, and you're digging yourself a huge hole. Its great that it performs good for you, but factually the only thing it has going for it compared to the competition is price. The LIs in tests which do bad are install issues, like that Ferrari, they were spaced so far apart that they got PTs because the beam could paint the center of the car without activating the heads. On the back of that far, where placement wasn't an issue it scored extremely well. And that Super Duty with LIs, it would have been the laughing stock if he'd tried to protect it with ZRs.

If you really believe they are that good why do you have Blinders on the way?

I Never said Zr3 was better then Li or blinder for that matter...stop tryin to make it out to something it's not I was sayin A Fact nothing else nothing less;)

I have seen punches at over 1k ft on Li's so have you...my punches have been 500 and under!!!!!!!! that's all I was saying

Why do I want blinders????? Because I want rear protection and for not much more I can get m47's

I would get Li's but one thing is stopping me and I can't talk about it and it's not the price!!!

[The Chariot]

What a tangled web we weave....


...in my own testing I never had a punch thu higher then 500 on any gun on my car I have seen Li' get high punches at double that...

You sure did imply it.

[Idontgo55]

What a tangled web we weave....


...in my own testing I never had a punch thu higher then 500 on any gun on my car I have seen Li' get high punches at double that...

You sure did imply it.

....maybe that's why you don't assume things;)

[snoopyc4]

...in my own testing I never had a punch thu higher then 500 on any gun on my car I have seen Li' get high punches at double that...

:confused: Your point? As mentioned before, just because you couldn't get a reading above 500 feet doesn't mean success. It is that little 500 feet that counts because that is the range most laser speed traps occur. If you get a reading anywhere between 100-500 ft, we consider that poor.


And Pl3 is a easy JTG so not sure what your getting at Have you ever tested a zr3/4 on a small car? you said you only talk about what you have done

Stealth Stalker has been to almost all of our Houston jammer meets and has seen the ZR3/4 fail many times on all kinds of cars including dark, small cars.

[The Chariot]

..... Not worth it. Edited.

[CJR238]

Anyone thought of testing jammers by actually simulating a real scenario with breaking after alert and so on? 3-4 set distances?

Makes more sense to me. ;)

[Idontgo55]

Idontgo55,

After the JTF LEO thread, and now this, it seems you won't yield an inch in a hopeless cause. Its like wrestling a greased pig.



How many times we have to go over this??

I didn't know It kills them right away without saying shifters off me and Randy checked this so I never JTG any leo !!!!!!!!!! so keep bashing it

you're putting words in my mouth and I don't like it !!!!!!

I would came out and said it!!!!!!!!!! is that clear to you????????

Keep bashing people much younger then you at the end of the day you go out and look for people to Race so mature !!!!!!!!!

Now who is the hopeless cause ????????


I think you're living in an alternate universe if you believe ZR3/ZR4s are better performers than LIs, and you're digging yourself a huge hole. Its great that it performs good for you, but factually the only thing it has going for it compared to the competition is price. The LIs in tests which do bad are install issues, like that Ferrari

Btw the F430 had blinders not Li's ...the 07 Mustang Is what I have a problem with


http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnZAUmH5o8YudHRkQ2lDalNIUWlEamUtMUhYb09ae VE&hl=en

[PHILBERT]

Anyone thought of testing jammers by actually simulating a real scenario with breaking after alert and so on? 3-4 set distances?

Makes more sense to me. ;)

X2!

[Stealth Stalker]

google Li and let me know if you still care to drop a grand+ for them ;)
Google Mustang and let me know why anyone would still want to own one. ;) Come on, Man. Don't turn into a Goon on us.


...in my own testing I never had a punch thu higher then 500 on any gun on my car...
That's like bragging that your body has never had punchthrough with anything lower than a .22 short. It's irrelevant, because you're still going to get killed by the vast majority of all LEO shots.


I have seen Li' get high punches at double that...
Come on, Man. You're smarter than to make this kind of bogus argument. You know that punchthroughs are as dependent upon the install as they are on the jammer. PT on LI = poor install.


And Pl3 is a easy JTG so not sure what your getting at Have you ever tested a zr3/4 on a small car? you said you only talk about what you have done
Yes, many, many times. I lost count of the ZRs I have tested on small cars in the last two years of testing any forum member who asked, almost every weekend. One of those small car owners already posted about it in this very thread and told you it failed.


On a car like mine they are enough to give u time to slow down before a ticket and yet they are how many years old??????
This thread isn't about your car.

[Batman]

google Li and let me know if you still care to drop a grand+ for them ;)
Google Mustang and let me know why anyone would still want to own one. ;) Come on, Man. Don't turn into a Goon on us.


...in my own testing I never had a punch thu higher then 500 on any gun on my car...
That's like bragging that your body has never had punchthrough with anything lower than a .22 short. It's irrelevant, because you're still going to get killed by the vast majority of all LEO shots.


I have seen Li' get high punches at double that...
Come on, Man. You're smarter than to make this kind of bogus argument. You know that punchthroughs are as dependent upon the install as they are on the jammer. PT on LI = poor install.


And Pl3 is a easy JTG so not sure what your getting at Have you ever tested a zr3/4 on a small car? you said you only talk about what you have done
Yes, many, many times. I lost count of the ZRs I have tested on small cars in the last two years of testing any forum member who asked, almost every weekend. One of those small car owners already posted about it in this very thread and told you it failed.


On a car like mine they are enough to give u time to slow down before a ticket and yet they are how many years old??????
This thread isn't about your car.

This guy seems like a goon to me.

[Veil Guy]

idontgo55,

i may get thrown under the bus for saying this (wouldn't be the first time, though) but i believe if you would be willing to veil in the mix with either the zr4 or the m27/m47 your results would be good.

it's been my personal experiences that the performance differences between jammers are greatly reduced when veil is added as a performance enhancement.

if you look at the GoL results, you'll see this and remember their sample car wasn't even completely protected to the degree it should have been with veil (ie; they forgot to treat the fog lamps). Had it been, the performance of the zr4 would have improved even further.

on my silver bimmer (no a small car), my 9500ci/zr4 combined with veil has never let me down (and that includes being shot in the rear in ky).

of course using veil with any jammer, will give it a boost. veil is most effective on the stalker lz1 (which happens to be one of the hardest guns for a jammer to jam). that makes for one powerful combination. in my opinion.

vg

[Stealth Stalker]

it's been my personal experiences that the performance differences between jammers are greatly reduced when veil is added as a performance enhancement.
There's no doubt about that. Time and time again, Veil has been shown to cut PT distance by up to fifty-percent or better. In a set up with only minor vulnerabilities (like say an Mx7 off-axis), Veil is an excellent investment, worth much more than it actually costs.

Unfortunately, too many people expect outright miracles though. Veil needs to have something to work with to start with. And cutting a 1200 foot PT distance in half doesn't really get you much closer to protection than you were.

[Idontgo55]

idontgo55,

i may get thrown under the bus for saying this (wouldn't be the first time, though) but i believe if you would be willing to veil in the mix with either the zr4 or the m27/m47 your results would be good.

it's been my personal experiences that the performance differences between jammers are greatly reduced when veil is added as a performance enhancement.

if you look at the GoL results, you'll see this and remember their sample car wasn't even completely protected to the degree it should have been with veil (ie; they forgot to treat the fog lamps). Had it been, the performance of the zr4 would have improved even further.

on my silver bimmer (no a small car), my 9500ci/zr4 combined with veil has never let me down (and that includes being shot in the rear in ky).

of course using veil with any jammer, will give it a boost. veil is most effective on the stalker lz1 (which happens to be one of the hardest guns for a jammer to jam). that makes for one powerful combination. in my opinion.

vg

As for the m27, m47 I haven't got them in yet but they will be JTG and JFG ...I'm pretty sure since somebody same car got that which veil isn't needed as for zr's I agree it might help some

I'm 100% of saves no rear shot's which is worth somewhere about $3,000

I wouldn't pay 90 bucks to see if veil looks good on my car I seen to many people have it that it looks like ....crap...I don't look at GOL again I look at my own test

[andycj7]

idontgo55,

i may get thrown under the bus for saying this (wouldn't be the first time, though) but i believe if you would be willing to veil in the mix with either the zr4 or the m27/m47 your results would be good.

it's been my personal experiences that the performance differences between jammers are greatly reduced when veil is added as a performance enhancement.

if you look at the GoL results, you'll see this and remember their sample car wasn't even completely protected to the degree it should have been with veil (ie; they forgot to treat the fog lamps). Had it been, the performance of the zr4 would have improved even further.

on my silver bimmer (no a small car), my 9500ci/zr4 combined with veil has never let me down (and that includes being shot in the rear in ky).

of course using veil with any jammer, will give it a boost. veil is most effective on the stalker lz1 (which happens to be one of the hardest guns for a jammer to jam). that makes for one powerful combination. in my opinion.

vg

As for the m27, m47 I haven't got them in yet but they will be JTG and JFG ...I'm pretty sure since somebody same car got that which veil isn't needed as for zr's I agree it might help some

I'm 100&#37; of saves no rear shot's which is worth somewhere about $3,000

I wouldn't pay 90 bucks to see if veil looks good on my car I seen to many people have it that it looks like ....crap...I don't look at GOL again I look at my own test

I'm not so sure i would say that.
The m27/47 is definitely an excellent jammer, but it still can get chewed up by some of the stronger guns(Stalker, U/L 20/20) without the use of Veil. The Stalker LZ-1 can even get punchthroughs via the headlights on the LI at times, w/o veil. It's usually a good idea to use Veil with blinders, since this helps them greatly. A blinder m27 with a good Veil coating is close to the performance of the LI, in my opinion. The rear jammers usually have issues protecting the taillights, so ultimately i wouldn't call your future setup a locked "JTG or JFG."

[djrams80]

As for the m27, m47 I haven't got them in yet but they will be JTG and JFGThe Blinders will not be JFG on that car. No way in hell. Mustangs have horrible mounting options on the rear.

[Idontgo55]

idontgo55,

i may get thrown under the bus for saying this (wouldn't be the first time, though) but i believe if you would be willing to veil in the mix with either the zr4 or the m27/m47 your results would be good.

it's been my personal experiences that the performance differences between jammers are greatly reduced when veil is added as a performance enhancement.

if you look at the GoL results, you'll see this and remember their sample car wasn't even completely protected to the degree it should have been with veil (ie; they forgot to treat the fog lamps). Had it been, the performance of the zr4 would have improved even further.

on my silver bimmer (no a small car), my 9500ci/zr4 combined with veil has never let me down (and that includes being shot in the rear in ky).

of course using veil with any jammer, will give it a boost. veil is most effective on the stalker lz1 (which happens to be one of the hardest guns for a jammer to jam). that makes for one powerful combination. in my opinion.

vg

As for the m27, m47 I haven't got them in yet but they will be JTG and JFG ...I'm pretty sure since somebody same car got that which veil isn't needed as for zr's I agree it might help some

I'm 100% of saves no rear shot's which is worth somewhere about $3,000

I wouldn't pay 90 bucks to see if veil looks good on my car I seen to many people have it that it looks like ....crap...I don't look at GOL again I look at my own test

I'm not so sure i would say that.
The m27/47 is definitely an excellent jammer, but it still can get chewed up by some of the stronger guns(Stalker, U/L 20/20) without the use of Veil. The Stalker LZ-1 can even get punchthroughs via the headlights on the LI at times, w/o veil. It's usually a good idea to use Veil with blinders, since this helps them greatly. A blinder m27 with a good Veil coating is close to the performance of the LI, in my opinion. The rear jammers usually have issues protecting the taillights, so ultimately i wouldn't call your future setup a locked "JTG or JFG."



...If M47's can get JTG On a f150 with no veil it can On pretty much anything

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnZAUmH5o8YudHRkQ2lDalNIUWlEamUtMUhYb09ae VE&hl=en

only one front hit at 328ft that wasn't from the LZ1 either

Think about a smaller car with smaller highlights hmmmm Good chance of JTG without veil ...I'll have to see about the JFG

either way 100bucks for veil is dumb ....If I get any punches with M47's it will be under 100ft Just wait and see

[Idontgo55]

As for the m27, m47 I haven't got them in yet but they will be JTG and JFGThe Blinders will not be JFG on that car. No way in hell. Mustangs have horrible mounting options on the rear.

We should see blinder guy told me somebody has done it with my same car ...and got either jfg or jtg ...with maybe a punch of 100ft at times

I'll put them on top of my plate or at the bottom of the bumper

[The Chariot]

The biggest issue we face here in Georgia is this state has the most reflective tags in the union. I'm not making that up, someone did some testing and came up with these lidar numbers (tag alone):

Worst plate: Georgia license plate, by itself = 2577 ft
Best plate: Colorado license plate, by itself = 1339 ft

An extremely thin coat of Veil on the tag will probably help, and I'll be testing that in the next few days. I've found a different way to apply Veil to tags that looks very good that is not standard brushing or air-brush. Due to their bright backgrounds tags are very hard to get a coating on them which looks even... until now. Just waiting for a replacement can to arrive (long story, but suffice to say Veil has stood behind their product! :)) and the testing will begin.