Received LI dual 8 Today ... Where to place on 335i e92 ??

[335i8-50]

I just received my LI dual by mail today and I am really looking foward to install them. ( Or should I say have them installed ) ...

Only thing is I have two concerns :

I live in a province where I am pretty sure, even if it's in a grey area, that laser jammers are illegal ... Well the web says it is but I can't find the law principle that explains it so I am sceptical.

Therefore, I would like to have a stealth installation as much as possible.

I also thought about mounting them in the grill, but I read that it is not such a good idea and that I will lose some efficiency.

Here is a picture of a car exactly like mine (black) with the aero lip, because I didn't have any on my computer with the right angle. Thanks in advance

PS . Right now the lower mesh grille is standard grey but I will probably get it painted black. Since the LI heads are also black, could they be kind of unnoticed ?

http://autofocusphoto.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/dsc05531.jpg

[ersin]

On this car there's no really good place for them, but cutting into the grill to mount the heads horizontal is considered the best, contrary to what you believe. Sorry. The general idea is: stealth the car, not the install. In other words, if the heads are hidden but don't work good that way then you've wasted your money. Get them to work, even if they stick out visually. Even then it would still be hard to notice the heads through the sights of a lidar gun especially when you're moving.

One thing that helps disguise the heads is a black grill like in the picture. Do you have black grills? If not they are relatively cheap and IMHO, look better than the standard chromed grills (they're just chrome coated; AFAIK all BMW grills are plastic) on most colors.

Some other tips:

Mounting low risks not picking up the lidar in the first place. If it doesn't detect the laser it won't jam. So get them above the lower grill.

Make sure they are level and face perfectly straight ahead.

Generally speaking, the heads are meant to be mounted horizontal. If you have the HP heads this should theoretically not be so critical as they have two diodes one with horizontal and one with vertical polarization. However, the grills themselves are not exactly vertical and the "fins" of the grill are not directed perfectly forward. This means that you would still have to do some cutting of the grill to get it aligned correctly even if you did mount them vertical.

Test the install. And I don't mean with a TV remote or even a specialized jammer tester. They just test to see if it's wired up and working. You want to know that it can, in fact, jam a lidar gun. Find someone (there's plenty on this website, hopefully someone close by) with a lidar gun who is willing to shoot you with it to see if the LI can jam it. But don't ask a cop. You may have to fine tune the position of the heads and this is only way to do it. Several times a year these people hold "meets" where us enthusiasts get together and you can test your install. I am not aware of any professional shops that test in this way.

When being hit with a lidar, don't leave it on to jam all the way to the gun (JTG). Adjust speed then turn it off. This is called jam to kill (JTK) and lets the LEO get your speed when it is within no-ticket-giving limits. Hopefully, the LEO will just think that he had a randomly hard time getting a reading at first and will be none the wiser.

Good luck.


Cheers.

[335i8-50]

Wow that was a quick answer ... I already ordered a set of black grilles a few weeks ago but find it a bit sad that I will have to cut them lol.. Also, what would you use to do the cutting in a nice clean way ? Do you know any websites where I could see pictures of this kind of install ? I have been looking at LI videos and installs in the last month and only heard of this possibility but never saw any picture.

Thanks again.

Oh and btw, since I live in Quebec, Canada, it seems like nobody here is aware of the existence of laser jammers so I might have a hard time finding somebody with a LIDAR gun willing to shoot my car ... Even if I don't have particularly good experiences with cops ( although I am a cool and polite person ), a friend of mine is a "good cop" and I might ask for his help if I don't find any alternative .... He's the one who suggested me and my friends (only I did) get radar detectors because he thinks the growing tickets business is a nonsense !!

[v1user]

.

[335i8-50]

I read that Tambourine-Man who's active on this forum and plenty others managed to mount his LI heads vertically in the grilles and got JTG results 5 times out of 5. I don't have the exact link but should I be considering the possibility ?

[Rowan]

Will they fit in the headlights? They will work well there if installed correctly. I would assume

That is the most stealth you can do, get someone with a lidar gun after install to test it out. Or there is mounting them vertical in the upper grills one either side closest to the headlights.

[dji203]

Your bumper is similar to mine. I'd run them vertically in your kidney grills towards the outher edges IF the slats are perfectly perpendicular. On my car, my kidney grill slats are somewhat angled so I will most likely be placing them in the outer edges of the lower grills, adjacent to the the fogs.

OR as someone else mentioned, you could throw them INSIDE your headlights and then you can justify the angel eye upgrade while you're at it, lol.

[SaltyinNJ]

a friend of mine is a "good cop" and I might ask for his help if I don't find any alternative .... He's the one who suggested me and my friends (only I did) get radar detectors because he thinks the growing tickets business is a nonsense !!

Please don't tell him about laser jammers as he will definitely eventually let it slip. Tell one wrong person and the whole department can know about it. One departement turns into one province. Soon enough, we'll all be fu(ked. Welcome btw.

[upstatedoc]

Your bumper is similar to mine. I'd run them vertically in your kidney grills towards the outher edges IF the slats are perfectly perpendicular. On my car, my kidney grill slats are somewhat angled so I will most likely be placing them in the outer edges of the lower grills, adjacent to the the fogs.

OR as someone else mentioned, you could throw them INSIDE your headlights and then you can justify the angel eye upgrade while you're at it, lol.

^^this, and they don't have to be perfectly perp. There are members here who have the LI's in the outer most slats vertically and they perform well. putting any two jammers in the lower air dam near the fogs on an E9x is considered fail.Note that I have 4 blinders protecting the front of my E90.

[milestogo]

Also, what would you use to do the cutting in a nice clean way ?

Dremel tool and patience works well

[PMoth]

Vertical in the Kidney grills. Diodes UP. Your chances of getting a speeding ticket will be slim to non existent. Whoever said "there is no good place to install jammers on the e9x" is crazy...

[Roundstone99]

I have an 08 E60 (5-Series). I assume placing them vertically on the outside of the kidney grille works just as well? They look pretty straight to me.

[PMoth]

I have an 08 E60 (5-Series). I assume placing them vertically on the outside of the kidney grille works just as well? They look pretty straight to me.

Not sure what you mean by "straight." When installing the heads vertical, the same installation rules apply. They need to be level and and aligned. Off axis protection is slightly reduced with vertical installs. If Leos in your area often sit out in fields located 100 ft from the road, while targeting cars, then a vertical install is probably not for you. If they target like the majority of officers, by the roadside, then you have nothing to worry about.

[335i8-50]

So I think I will be going with the outer slats vert. installation in the kidney grilles. Only thing is since they are not perfectly perpendicular to the road, is it DEFINITELY recommended to reduce the thickness of the slats for the heads to be perfectly perp to the road ( and consequently leveled I assume ? ).

I'm referring again to Tambourine's Man install ( Vert in e92 ) and he seemed to get JTG results without using any cutting/shaving of the slats ( such as with a dremmel tool )

[335i8-50]

And thanks for all your answers .... Btw I know the only way to make sure an installation is proprely done is with testing it.

[dji203]

Good luck and post pics afterwards! My LI arrives this week...

[Stealth Stalker]

Note that I have 4 blinders protecting the front of my E90.
This. ^^^

Buy two more heads for the front (as well as another whole set-up for your rear. Yes, you do need it.), as that is the only sure-deal on a BMW. If you try to cheap-out, the consequences are on you, not LI.

[Riptide]

vertical installs suck horribly against anything off axis.

[chris98891]

Here is a link to my vertical install:
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/advice-placement/54928-li-quad-antenna-placement-e46-3-series-56k-beware-3.html

as others have said, its a JTG setup, but it doesn't offer the same level of comfort that a horizontal install. I'm thinking of getting a second set of heads and an mtecII bumper to put them in.

[PMoth]

vertical installs suck horribly against anything off axis.
Says who. Poor installs suck against anything period. Take the time to make sure it's done correctly and results change rather quickly.



Here is a link to my vertical install:
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/advice-placement/54928-li-quad-antenna-placement-e46-3-series-56k-beware-3.html

as others have said, its a JTG setup, but it doesn't offer the same level of comfort that a horizontal install. I'm thinking of getting a second set of heads and an mtecII bumper to put them in.
The only way to gain any reasonable comfort level is to experiment and test. After doing it enough times, you'll know what works and what does not work.

Let's just say that out of the many BMW's with lower bumper horizontal installs or vertical installs in the kidney grills that I have seen or done in the past 3 years, I've never heard any one of those people say they've been owned. Can it happen, yes. Will it happen, hmmmmm..... You probably have a better chance of being struck by lightening.

[Riptide]

vertical installs suck horribly against anything off axis.
Says who. Poor installs suck against anything period. Take the time to make sure it's done correctly and results change rather quickly.



Here is a link to my vertical install:
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/advice-placement/54928-li-quad-antenna-placement-e46-3-series-56k-beware-3.html

as others have said, its a JTG setup, but it doesn't offer the same level of comfort that a horizontal install. I'm thinking of getting a second set of heads and an mtecII bumper to put them in.
The only way to gain any reasonable comfort level is to experiment and test. After doing it enough times, you'll know what works and what does not work.

Let's just say that out of the many BMW's with lower bumper horizontal installs or vertical installs in the kidney grills that I have seen or done in the past 3 years, I've never heard any one of those people say they've been owned. Can it happen, yes. Will it happen, hmmmmm..... You probably have a better chance of being struck by lightening.

Having tested vertical installs with actual off axis shooting (not straight line garbage) I can say from personal experience they do not perform nearly as well as horizontal installs.

Furthermore if we look at it logically, taking the beam pattern produced by the LI's Osram diode into account (pictured below), it makes perfect sense.

http://i55.tinypic.com/29yiomp.png

Look at the horizontal angle vs the vertical.

[PMoth]

Having tested vertical installs with actual off axis shooting (not straight line garbage) I can say from personal experience they do not perform nearly as well as horizontal installs.

Furthermore if we look at it logically, taking the beam pattern produced by the LI's Osram diode into account (pictured below), it makes perfect sense. You seem to be missing what is important. Countless members of this site eyeball installs and suspend heads with double sided tape. They then attend meets or testing sessions and their setups are shredded. Take the time to plan, measure, align, level, and securely mount the heads, and you will be surprised what does and does not work when it is time for testing.

Your personal experience and my personal experience differ. There's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is when someone makes a blanket statement such as the one you made in your first post above, when real world results not only suggest, but also prove such a statement to be inaccurate.

I've encountered far more overpass lidar ambushes during my travels than those, ultra rare Fritter-like 100+ ft away from the road, off-axis "testing scenarios" that a select few here claim will one day pwn us.

How many times have I been owned by an overpass shot? 0. And the targeting height for these overpass shots average 30+ ft.
In all honesty, overpass shots will likely be the largest off-axis threat that the majority of us will encounter. And most members, if I'm not mistaken, have their heads installed horizontally. Their heads are being tested in a vertical configuration and they don't even realize it.

So Riptide, don't get me wrong because I understand and appreciate what you're saying, but I will stand by vertical installs as a viable solution for those who live, and drive in an area where "extreme off-axis" shots are not common.

[Riptide]

I should have been more specific in my statement, I apologize; however I think our different views come from different geographical locations with different types of encounters. I'm going by an area where ambush style off axis shots in the horizontal plane are very common. Therefore that is how we test. At our last ECCTG shootout we tested a car whose rear was a vertical install (not eyeballed and taped by any means, this guy is very thorough) and he got eaten alive.

Overpass shots do occur, however, even if they were more common than the horizontal off axis I would still prioritize for the latter and here is why. In this area (and I think this would hold true for most places) overpass shots occur on the highway and thus at much higher speeds, while horizontally off axis shots occur on roads with lower PSLs. It is my understanding, and experience from testing, that the higher speeds our cars travel on the highways help the jammers and make it much more difficult for PT to occur. We tested this at our last meet at an overpass with a shooter whose position was not only off axis in the vertical plane but also the horizontal to give a worse case senerio. We only had time to do one or two passes with each car but everyone was JTG/JFG traveling around 80mph.

Now if you encounter overpass shots at much lower speeds, I may consider HP heads or a vertical install. (or if your car is much taller than it is wide)

So it looks like we are just coming down to what area you live in and what types of shots you encounter.


So Riptide, don't get me wrong because I understand and appreciate what you're saying, but I will stand by vertical installs as a viable solution for those who live, and drive in an area where "extreme off-axis" shots are not common.

I agree with this for the most part, except I would change it to this:
Vertical installs are a viable compromise for those who live, and drive in an area where "horizontally off-axis" shots are not common.
;)
different strokes for different folks



Having tested vertical installs with actual off axis shooting (not straight line garbage) I can say from personal experience they do not perform nearly as well as horizontal installs.

Furthermore if we look at it logically, taking the beam pattern produced by the LI's Osram diode into account (pictured below), it makes perfect sense. You seem to be missing what is important. Countless members of this site eyeball installs and suspend heads with double sided tape. They then attend meets or testing sessions and their setups are shredded. Take the time to plan, measure, align, level, and securely mount the heads, and you will be surprised what does and does not work when it is time for testing.

Your personal experience and my personal experience differ. There's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is when someone makes a blanket statement such as the one you made in your first post above, when real world results not only suggest, but also prove such a statement to be inaccurate.

I've encountered far more overpass lidar ambushes during my travels than those, ultra rare Fritter-like 100+ ft away from the road, off-axis "testing scenarios" that a select few here claim will one day pwn us.

How many times have I been owned by an overpass shot? 0. And the targeting height for these overpass shots average 30+ ft.
In all honesty, overpass shots will likely be the largest off-axis threat that the majority of us will encounter. And most members, if I'm not mistaken, have their heads installed horizontally. Their heads are being tested in a vertical configuration and they don't even realize it.

So Riptide, don't get me wrong because I understand and appreciate what you're saying, but I will stand by vertical installs as a viable solution for those who live, and drive in an area where "extreme off-axis" shots are not common.

[PMoth]

LOL. Fair enough.

[PMoth]

I should have been more specific in my statement, I apologize; however I think our different views come from different geographical locations with different types of encounters. I'm going by an area where ambush style off axis shots in the horizontal plane are very common. Therefore that is how we test. At our last ECCTG shootout we tested a car whose rear was a vertical install (not eyeballed and taped by any means, this guy is very thorough) and he got eaten alive. Please keep in mind we are talking about the front of the OP's car and not the rear. I understand, and would expect the outcome that your group discovered during testing the rear of that car from some extreme angle "x".

[Stealth Stalker]

So it looks like we are just coming down to what area you live in and what types of shots you encounter.
This. ^^^ But one should never get comfortable with only those shots they have seen. Do you know why some cops shoot different than others? It's not because of training. It's simply because they figured it out through experience. Although we all know that people up north are much slower on the uptake than us in The South, eventually even Yankee cops will figure out that they are much less likely to be killed if they are parked way off the roadway than if they park on the shoulder or median. Cops in The South figured that out a long, long time ago. But, of course, human life isn't quite as valuable north of Arkansas. I guess a lot more northern cops will have to die before the light comes on in their heads, but when it does, there will be no announcement in the newspaper. There will just be carnage on all the low installs, BMWs, and Blinders.

[xyd]

Here is a link to my vertical install:
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/advice-placement/54928-li-quad-antenna-placement-e46-3-series-56k-beware-3.html

as others have said, its a JTG setup, but it doesn't offer the same level of comfort that a horizontal install. I'm thinking of getting a second set of heads and an mtecII bumper to put them in.

Most things on a straight course are JTG.

You already have adequate mounting options with your current front end, you don't need a new bumper. You need to place the heads in a better location. Just because you have 4 heads up front doesn't mean you won't get wtfowned.

Please don't get an M-Tech bumper.

[PMoth]

Interesting.... Was just down in FL for 8 days. Traveled a total distance of 1600+ miles from north to south and the west coast. 30+ police encounters. 1 officer using lidar 20 ft from the roadway tucked away in a bush on 95. 20+ moving Ka on 95 north and south. 8 stationary Ka on I4 between Orlando and Daytona, all on the side of the road within a few feet of the roadway. 6 stationary Ka on the FL turnpike between Ft. Pierce and Ft. Lauderdale, all located at turnarounds or on the shoulder.

So in all of that madness, one southern cop was "sensible" out of the 15 total who were enforcing traffic from a stationary location. And he was still within 20 ft of the roadway. 20 ft off the side of the road, at a distance of 300 ft from the gun, is still well within the beam projection of a LI no matter which direction it is oriented. Can't argue that one.

I've simply come to the conclusion that us boys up north either simply can't shoot, or the boys down south (excluding FL) all need 3 million heads on the front of there cars for adequate protection...

Also, out of the many vids posted by users on this forum, from all over the country, how many of these encounters are of "ridiculous error-inducing" off-axis shots...

[PMoth]

Here is a link to my vertical install:
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/advice-placement/54928-li-quad-antenna-placement-e46-3-series-56k-beware-3.html

as others have said, its a JTG setup, but it doesn't offer the same level of comfort that a horizontal install. I'm thinking of getting a second set of heads and an mtecII bumper to put them in.

Most things on a straight course are JTG.

You already have adequate mounting options with your current front end, you don't need a new bumper. You need to place the heads in a better location. Just because you have 4 heads up front doesn't mean you won't get wtfowned.

Please don't get an M-Tech bumper.
True!

[mrkookm]

...........

[xyd]

^ Good times. *thumbs up*

[Stealth Stalker]

Also, out of the many vids posted by users on this forum, from all over the country, how many of these encounters are of "ridiculous error-inducing" off-axis shots...
Most wounds I treated in combat were to the torso, not "ridiculous" head shots. But you'd still be an idiot to go in without your helmet on.

Nuff said.

[PMoth]

LOL. I know people who have died with a helmet on. And the answer to that question, which really wasn't a question, is 0. Not O but zero. I like those odds.

[mrkookm]

..................

[PMoth]

Why do most fall back on the Cosine err effect when we talk about off-axis shots?


Who's talking about cosine error? We test some pretty funky things here in NE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyMjtq3IodU

[Stealth Stalker]

Why do most fall back on the Cosine err effect when we talk about off-axis shots? Has anyone actually done testing & the math to 'see' the impact the 'cosine' effect has on a speed reading? What about actual tests using a really good off axis postion against set vehicle speed and record what the lidar gun is being returned at various angles? Or is just everyone echoing just because it has become the norm response when someone brings up off-axis :)
Excellent point. I have confirmed LIDAR readings with radar at many off-axis tests without noting any error.

[Stealth Stalker]

Why do most fall back on the Cosine err effect when we talk about off-axis shots?


Who's talking about cosine error? We test some pretty funky things here in NE.
What does that vid have to do with off-axis?

[PMoth]

Yup, it was an excellent point on an incorrect assumption...

If you can't figure out, there is no use explaining it to you.

And what does the vid above that have to do with an LI on the front of a BMW?

[Stealth Stalker]

And what does the vid above that have to do with an LI on the front of a BMW?
LOL... touche'

But, that was definitely an LI and a frontal hit. Pretty sure he drives a BMW.

In fact, I may be the only member here who doesn't.

[xyd]

Pretty sure he drives a BMW.

No, that wasn't a BMW being shot. And mrkookm has a solid setup, one of the best that this forum has ever seen. But at that angle, who knows if the cop ended up getting a reading or not in that video.


And what does the vid above that have to do with an LI on the front of a BMW?

It doesn't have to do with an LI on the front of a BMW. It was where the discussion was going, in reply to your comment of "ridiculous error-inducing" off-axis shots.

[mrkookm]

............

[PMoth]

Pretty sure he drives a BMW.

No, that wasn't a BMW being shot. And mrkookm has a solid setup, one of the best that this forum has ever seen. But at that angle, who knows if the cop ended up getting a reading or not in that video.


And what does the vid above that have to do with an LI on the front of a BMW?

It doesn't have to do with an LI on the front of a BMW. It was where the discussion was going, in reply to your comment of "ridiculous error-inducing" off-axis shots.

LOL, Let's get serious guys.

[chris98891]

Here is a link to my vertical install:
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/advice-placement/54928-li-quad-antenna-placement-e46-3-series-56k-beware-3.html

as others have said, its a JTG setup, but it doesn't offer the same level of comfort that a horizontal install. I'm thinking of getting a second set of heads and an mtecII bumper to put them in.

Most things on a straight course are JTG.

You already have adequate mounting options with your current front end, you don't need a new bumper. You need to place the heads in a better location. Just because you have 4 heads up front doesn't mean you won't get wtfowned.

Please don't get an M-Tech bumper.

only logical place i could stick them on my current front end with 2 heads would be on top of my bumper. Headlight install is nice, but I don't plan on keeping my halogens much longer. How many other options can you think of that are adequate?

[xyd]

LOL, Let's get serious guys.

That was me being serious.


only logical place i could stick them on my current front end with 2 heads would be on top of my bumper. Headlight install is nice, but I don't plan on keeping my halogens much longer. How many other options can you think of that are adequate?

That's what I was thinking. In front of the headlights (the inner most part), on the outside of the bumper. It's not pretty, but if you want a working setup, this is it.

[chris98891]

LOL, Let's get serious guys.

That was me being serious.


only logical place i could stick them on my current front end with 2 heads would be on top of my bumper. Headlight install is nice, but I don't plan on keeping my halogens much longer. How many other options can you think of that are adequate?

That's what I was thinking. In front of the headlights (the inner most part), on the outside of the bumper. It's not pretty, but if you want a working setup, this is it.

heated headlight washers, i can't go out that far. my original plan was to pull out that piece and replace it with the lenses that have worked so well in front of LI heads before.

[Riptide]

IMO
Red is your best option
Green is good but makes the very edges of your headlights vulnerable
Blue is also good but may make your fogs vulnerable
Always test
5356

These are your friend
5357

[radarrob]

Red area for best performance! with Li bracket as riptide suggested. get setup tested

[dji203]

IMO
These are your friend
5357

Newb question, what are those and how are they used? Looks like bracket hardware?

BTW, OP - just did the install on my E86 here (http://www.radardetector.net/forums/laser-interceptor/70953-suggestions-where-install-jammers-bmw-z4.html)

[Riptide]

IMO
These are your friend
5357

Newb question, what are those and how are they used? Looks like bracket hardware?

BTW, OP - just did the install on my E86 here (http://www.radardetector.net/forums/laser-interceptor/70953-suggestions-where-install-jammers-bmw-z4.html)

Yeah its an LI bracket. Call up Cliff to order a pair.