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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannago View Post
    Ok...the typically anti-American host of the popular BBC automotive program "Top Gear", was very impressed with the ZR1 - almost giddy at times. Very unusual for him!

    No offense, but I consider him to be just a tad more experienced and more of an authority than you, and he never once bashed the interior of the ZR1.

    Your comment re. the poor quality of the ZR1's interior is just some Joe Blow's opinion on an internet forum, and is in no way supported by any quantifiable evidence. I, on the other hand, was simply trying to provide evidence that perhaps the ZR1 isn't as bad as you claim.

    Seriously, the "sh!tty interior" argument has to be the weakest, most over-used argument cited by internet e-haters everywhere. Can't find anything else to criticize? How about how bad the gas mileage is?

    Also, re. ZR1 vs Porsche...not really fair to compare a ~125K ZR1 to a ~245K Porsche (911 GT2RS). How about comparing it to something more in the same price range:

    http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...911-turbo.html

    ZR1 > 911

    I know...the Porsche has a nicer interior....
    I think you completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make. I never claimed to be a car expert but I have hands-on experience in the cars I am talking about. Did I not say that the Corvette is an excellent car? Yes I did.

    Though it is a great performer, it is my opinion that the interior is total crap, especially considering the price can climb upwards of six figures. GM tends to cut corners and put pieces of cheaper models' interiors in their top tier cars. That is unacceptable to me if I am paying that much money for a car. I want craftsmanship and quality.

    I have driven cars from all the American car manufacturers and owned top-of-the-line models from both Dodge and GMC, so I think I have a little experience in what I am talking about.

    I have driven a DB9 in the same price category as the Corvette and it was miles ahead in terms of quality and materials. Yeah I think the Corvette is a great car, and can perform better than a lot of other cars, but if I was spending that much money I would expect better craftsmanship.

    Can I assume that you own a Corvette and took this personally? Also, what is an e-hater? Finally, fuel consumption isn't an issue with a track car or a car that you are paying 75k for. Face it, the craftsmanship of the Corvette is its Achilles heel. Sure, people will continue to buy it, good for them I hope they like it.
    Last edited by pilot_corey; 06-28-2011 at 05:45 PM.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Actually, I'm very please with the gas mileage achieved in both the Z06 and Zr1. Gm knows how to make an engine, chassis, and a body. There was never a doubt. They've always made very attractive cars. The issue is the total package. If you want your car to be a super car, it can not be half Clark Kent.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Quote Originally Posted by PMoth View Post
    Actually, I'm very please with the gas mileage achieved in both the Z06 and Zr1. Gm knows how to make an engine, chassis, and a body. There was never a doubt. They've always made very attractive cars. The issue is the total package. If you want your car to be a super car, it can not be half Clark Kent.
    x2

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Quote Originally Posted by pilot_corey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wannago View Post
    Ok...the typically anti-American host of the popular BBC automotive program "Top Gear", was very impressed with the ZR1 - almost giddy at times. Very unusual for him!

    No offense, but I consider him to be just a tad more experienced and more of an authority than you, and he never once bashed the interior of the ZR1.

    Your comment re. the poor quality of the ZR1's interior is just some Joe Blow's opinion on an internet forum, and is in no way supported by any quantifiable evidence. I, on the other hand, was simply trying to provide evidence that perhaps the ZR1 isn't as bad as you claim.

    Seriously, the "sh!tty interior" argument has to be the weakest, most over-used argument cited by internet e-haters everywhere. Can't find anything else to criticize? How about how bad the gas mileage is?

    Also, re. ZR1 vs Porsche...not really fair to compare a ~125K ZR1 to a ~245K Porsche (911 GT2RS). How about comparing it to something more in the same price range:

    http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...911-turbo.html

    ZR1 > 911

    I know...the Porsche has a nicer interior....
    I think you completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make. I never claimed to be a car expert but I have hands-on experience in the cars I am talking about. Did I not say that the Corvette is an excellent car? Yes I did.

    Though it is a great performer, it is my opinion that the interior is total crap, especially considering the price can climb upwards of six figures. GM tends to cut corners and put pieces of cheaper models' interiors in their top tier cars. That is unacceptable to me if I am paying that much money for a car. I want craftsmanship and quality.

    I have driven cars from all the American car manufacturers and owned top-of-the-line models from both Dodge and GMC, so I think I have a little experience in what I am talking about.

    I have driven a DB9 in the same price category as the Corvette and it was miles ahead in terms of quality and materials. Yeah I think the Corvette is a great car, and can perform better than a lot of other cars, but if I was spending that much money I would expect better craftsmanship.

    Can I assume that you own a Corvette and took this personally? Also, what is an e-hater? Finally, fuel consumption isn't an issue with a track car or a car that you are paying 75k for. Face it, the craftsmanship of the Corvette is its Achilles heel. Sure, people will continue to buy it, good for them I hope they like it.
    No Corey, I don't own a Vette. I own a CTS-V, which actually is the first GM product I've owned since my 1980 Turbo TA, so I'm not even a typical GM fanboi.

    Sorry for the snarkiness of my previous reply, its just that I always hear the "interior" argument. I bought an SRT-4 when they were first released in Canada in 2004. All the haters (i.e. people who had some form of bias against it) would always cite the interior as being crap. Sure, it was a Neon interior and no one would argue that the interior was perhaps not as nice as say an Acura, that was the only criticizm those guys had of a car that whomped their cars asses, and that of other cars which cost much more money.

    Even with my "V" you hear the argument that the interior is sub-standard to the BMW M5. Again, the V outperfomes the M5, so what else could people come up with. Sure, perhaps the M5 has a better quality interior with more whistles and bells, but I personally am happy with the interior in my V and there a re a few ex M5 owners on the forums who say they would never trade their V back for an M5. This type of stuff is very subjective.

    Going back, compare the cost of an SRT-4 or a CTS-V to its direct competitors, and there is not a car in its price range that even comes close in terms of performance. Same with the ZR1.

    With all these cars, the manufacturers could have upgraded the interiors, at an increased price to the consumer. I know when the SRT-4 launched in the US in MY 2003, one of Dodge's advertising pitches was "The fastest production car in the world under 20K". That little skittle bruised a lot of egos...

    Don't get me wrong, I love Porsche's, Astons, and the like and I'm not downing them in any way, I just think GM intenionally built a supercar..yes, it IS a supercar...for the "common man"....whatever common man has 125K to spend on a car, that is. To keep the price down, obviously the interior was sacrificed. I know many Vette owners whose biggest complaint is the seats, and don't see why they didn't use the Recaros that are in the V, but GM clearly focused on the drivetrain, which is top notch.

    I don't think the DB9 is in the same price category...don't they start at 200K? Again, performance-wise, it doesn't compete with the ZR1. Beautiful car though.

    I am willing to bet the C7 Vette will see a much improved interior. I read that Chrysler has committed to a significant increase in spending in the interior materials they are using in their new cars, I hope GM follows suit with the Vette. I get your point about spending all that money on a car and not having an interior to match, but even though many feel the interior may be at the quality level of a 30K car, the performance you get is that of a +200K car. Its a compromise. Its a performance car, and a very good one at that. I say give credit where credit's due.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    I guess it is all personal preference. I like performance cars, but I also like craftsmanship. I would rather pay $125k for a car that might be a bit slower than the Corvette but has an interior that is 10x better. If I paid that much I wouldn't want to be driving around in what looked like a Geo Metro on the inside. I owned a Volvo once that had an excellent interior in the 35k range, so I just can't understand why GM can't do the same for their cars.

    The CTS-V is an awesome vehicle by the way. Of all the GM brands, Cadillac seems to have their stuff together as they don't source their parts from other models/brands as much. I had a GMC Yukon Denali in which it seemed like 99% of the interior parts were from a Chevy Tahoe that was 20k cheaper.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Corvette has made a lot of interior changes for 2012, especially the seats.

    A fully loaded ZR1 can be had for about 105 now and that includes the upgraded leather wrapped interior. The leather interior is one of only two options now. The 4LZ package and the performance package are the only options this year I believe.

    4LZ is the leather wrap interior and the performance package includes the new Michelin Cup tires and slightly different aero skirts from what I can determine.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Bout time they went FI...and I do not see it as a corruption...even if they went I6 TT. Cars have to evolve or they don't sell (see the older Camaro/Firebird line). The Vettes have become amazing cars and they have transformed. The interior is comparable to the finest sports cars, the brakes are on par with the PCCBS, and their handling is on par with the GT-R. Finally they use really good tyres (PS2s/PS3s) and stopped favoring Goodyear because they are 'American'. Quality has made leaps. With new emissions, advanced turbos without lag, and hiking gas prices, FI is the way to go.

    How common is FI coming? Well the M3's are going back to I6TT, the new Ferrari F70 supercar will be V8TT or TTTT. Most supercars are TT, including even the new McLaren despite Gordon Murray claiming he would never produce a FI supercar years ago. Why has this all changed? Turbo cars have become reliable, efficient, and offer a higher hp:weight ratio; and lag has become a thing of the past unless you are talking about a 1,000 hp+ Supra or other 6TT with turbos the size of your head.

    If you think FI on the Vette will be a backwards step, think of this. The new GT-R will be well over 600 hp and tq in 2013, with some saying to expect that much at the wheels and not the crank. It already has been verified to 0-60 in 2.7 seconds at its 'weaker' 530 hp. I drove a Grand Sport on an Auto-X track a few weeks ago and later a Z06 on a closed course. The day I drove the GS I drove a SS Camaro and I could not keep it's ass end stable where as I could not brake the ass end of the Vette loose (I assume the SS is a LRA tho). The Z06 reaches 150 without even working hard and it takes a LOT to brake (heh) them lose. The ZR1 I hope to drive soon. As of now, the GT-R and ZR1 are the hella driving cars. Both destroy virtually anything else on the road when it comes to a combo of accel, handling, and braking. Both can be driven daily (despite a stiff ride but who cars), and both are 'cheap' considering they will destroy any Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, etc. on most tracks. If you are basing the interior of the current Vette, you need a Ferrari or are basing it off of some older models, in which their interior really was AWFUL. As not a fan of many GM products, past and present, I can say that the Vette (and Cadillac) have come a very long way and unless GM will bring performance specs like now or better, they are nuts.

    I'm a GT-R man myself but the Vette commands respect from all angles.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Don't forget VanMan, that the ZR1 is FI. There's plenty more to be wrung out of that engine as well. I've owned turbo cars and this (my CTS-V) is my first S/C car. While it may not be fair to compare my V (which has considerably more power than any of my previous turbo cars had), I have to say I perfer the S/C over a turbo. I know they each have thier pros and cons, but I agree, FI is the way to go. I think the interior of the Vette is not as bad as all the negative press, but it certainly could use some refinement, which I understand is coming with the C7.

    I think the 'Vette has this stigma attached to it, and I understand how some people might be reluctant to spend the money on a ZR1 (despite it's awesome performance) that essentially looks like any other base corvette on the road. Perhaps if GM reskinned it so it looked different, and gave it a "modern" sexy name, people might not be so quick to bash it.

    Regardless of your preference, its a great time to be a car enthusiast! I'd love to get behind the wheel of a GTR!
    Last edited by Wannago; 07-20-2011 at 10:04 AM.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Speaking of the GT-R:


  10. #40
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    Default Re: Next Corvette Will Be Powered by Small, High-Revving Turbo V-8

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannago View Post
    Don't forget VanMan, that the ZR1 is FI. There's plenty more to be wrung out of that engine as well. I've owned turbo cars and this (my CTS-V) is my first S/C car. While it may not be fair to compare my V (which has considerably more power than any of my previous turbo cars had), I have to say I perfer the S/C over a turbo. I know they each have thier pros and cons, but I agree, FI is the way to go. I think the interior of the Vette is not as bad as all the negative press, but it certainly could use some refinement, which I understand is coming with the C7.

    I think the 'Vette has this stigma attached to it, and I understand how some people might be reluctant to spend the money on a ZR1 (despite it's awesome performance) that essentially looks like any other base corvette on the road. Perhaps if GM reskinned it so it looked different, and gave it a "modern" sexy name, people might not be so quick to bash it.

    Regardless of your preference, its a great time to be a car enthusiast! I'd love to get behind the wheel of a GTR!
    That left my mind for a sec!!! I forgot the ZR1 is SC. I am a turbo man myself but both T and SC have become reliable, potent, and energy efficient systems. The CTS-V is such a badass car. I'de take it over the M5 any day. I think the ZR1 buyer is much like the GT-R buyer in that neither car is a status symbol and they are really built to be driven as opposed to other cars that are built to be shown off. The GT-R's abilities are unreal, but only a small sector of car buyers even consider it as let's face it, a $100,000 and Nissan don't normally belong in the same sentence. I've never driven a car so hard and made so many unsuccessful attempts to lose control. With that said, it is an uncomfortable ride (not like an Evo MR tho) and has limited practicality. I do not know anyone who drives their GT-R as a daily, where as I know a few guys with 911T's who drive them every day in dry, wet, snow, etc.

 

 

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