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Glad you made it back GTO, the snow was bad in a few spots.
I hit an unmarked dodge charger running KA around Flint, and as soon as my STi-R stopped alerting to the KA, I started picking up K band! It was a sherrifs van parked not even 1 mile further ahead! Other than that, it was a rather uneventful drive.
Later on in the afternoon, it sounded like the roads were getting bad in the Detroit area. It is a little bit unusual to have that much snow in mid November even in that area of MI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoshi
I did see that MSP SUV near Flint, but they were not running radar/laser at the time. I glanced in the rear view mirror as I drove by and the trooper had just flipped his lights on so he must have been chasing someone down. He found a very productive spot. I did not run into the charger though.
That K band alert could have been NMA clocking someone with his Kustom Falcon.:D
On the 35.5 test course, I got the following distances:
V1 (radar 1.7) 1.48 miles
BEL STi 1.49 miles
V1 (1.8 v3.826) 1.44 miles
It was quite a suprise that the 1.7 was slightly better than the 1.8 on 35.5
The STi did slightly better than both of them. On the way to the test site I encountered an Ogemaw Co. Sheriff's deputy with 35.5 Ka and ths STi alterted about 10-15 seconds earlier than the V1 1.8. The initial alerts were over the hill. When I first got the alert I figured NMA or Apline was shooting the Kustom Golden Eagle from the supermarket parking lot, but I figured I would slow down just to be on the safe side. Good thing I did LOL!
The V1 1.8 was able to pick up 16.7 ms K band POP, but the percentage was not real high, about 20-30%. On 33.8 Ka POP, with the radar at a fixed distance, the V1 consistently alerted about a second sooner than the STi, and it alerted earlier to standard I/O also.
GTO_04
GTO_04
I made it back last night, no encounters to report. :D
I want to take this opportunity to thank Alpine and ProudNMA for inviting me to their third annual invitational! You will never meet any gadget enthusiasts that are more hardcore than these two guys. It was really great getting to meet everyone. Now I can put some more faces with user ID's :)
Here are some pictures I took at the event:
alpineinvitational_2008 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Of course, a few select pictures were removed, to protect the innocent ;)
ProudNMA, I think I owe you some C batteries... :o
I forgot to add:
V1 (3.864) ka 35.5 front and rear antenna as far as the course would go. Estimating 1.50+ miles, still picking it up in the corner in the dirt road with ProudNMA by me.
Glad to hear that everyone has made it back safe and sound :D.
Thanks to everyone that came to the event, everyone that pitched in their time, money and efforts to make such a fun day happen. Ya jim me and NMA noticed that. It's ok though Mr. Bonz. I figure personally we owe ya the batteries anyhow, since you where so kind to bring the ultralyte for us to all use, and see. I know it ment alot to aoshi. Once again glad to here that everybody made it home safe, with no tickets, and no accidents. Thats a very good thing to hear. As for the Kustom Falcon GTO, lol nma left that here for me to use for a little bit so i don't think that was the source hehe :D. Although, NMA himself did get paced in Rose City on his way back by a Ogemaw County Leo!! :eek::eek: He said to me on his cell that he came out of nowhere, so typical here in Michigan. I'm glad to hear GTO that you took that hit legit.
We did have alot of fun this year moreso I personaly beleive than the last two years. I am still currently working on the Video of this event, I already have some of the intro and the first leg of the video I have began work on as well. It is going to take me a little bit to get it all together, and black out plates, as this has to be done frame by frame. That is nothing major though, and I have gotten to a point where I can do it alot better and faster nowdays.
The video's are coming. Thanks for the photo's Mr. Bonz, if anyone else has some pic's they took that day they want to share feel free. GTO how about a pic of the infamous Spectre RDD Pen? LOL :D:D
LOL :D Aoshi, "We have over 20,000 dollars of electronics here, and we are taking pics of a pen." LOL funny, but so true. Although, there aren't alot of those pens out there on the forum i'm sure ;). I was even like :eek: when I opened the infamous box from aussie and saw them.
It was neat getting to see your STi-R Aoshi we appriciate you bringing that dearly.
Also we where glad Mike brought the 9500Ci and the 9500IX.
Also thanks to languy for bringing blinder rev. J16's. It is always nice to see blinder products at our tests.
No problem on the invite Jim, your always welcome at our events. Just as anyone is from this board. We greatly appriciated your help/expertise, as well as Languy's, Aoshi's, GTO_04, NMA, and Mike, a big thankyou to Aoshi for helping out Mike's son thanks for making his day ;).
Back to working on the Video guy's. Give me some time, it is honestly going to take me some time, with all the video taken I have to decifer what is going in, what is not etc. So it may take some time, but we "WILL" have a very nice video this year from the looks of the "RAW" footage taken.
Also lastly i'd like to thank the unexpected guest :D The michigan state DNR. I hope he didn't give Mr. GTO_04 or anybody too much of an ear full?? He was kind of curious i heard though why all these out of state plates where in his area? LOL :D
Also one last thing I forgot, I thanked the owner of the trailer for donating it's use. I personally felt the Heat of the Trailer was an invaluable additon to this test, and without it, would have made it alot more bitter due to the chilly weather. The heat was definetly nice to have on such a chilly november day.
AlPiNe~
Cool :). Can't wait to see the videos.
I'll have the picture of the infamous pen tomorrow.:D
GTO_04
It's funny how I trust a 5 year old with my iphone more than my girlfriendQuote:
Originally Posted by alpinestars_2002795
*hax by a rabbit.
Edit: uh huh, she uses my iphone all the time! That'll teach me to leave my account logged in on her pc.. :P
welcome back guys hope you all test if pop affects ka band or not.
16ms K band pop, and 67ms 33.8ghz ka band pop mode was tested by all, and on a wide varitey of units.
All the guy's at the test should be able to give their own definative results on this for each unit and tell you which of theirs preformed the best against pop modes.;)
I was "VERY BUSY" shooting video during pop mode testing.
So, the individual guy's at the test will have alot more info on "HOW pop mode testing went."
Thanks for the welcome back roadwarrior it is appriciated. It was a very fun, and eventfull weekend for all, we are all so exhausted from the extent of the testing that I know I myself had to take a big nap as well, Languy I think from the looks of things did the same, as well as NMA when he got home. I'm betting GTO and Aoshi and jim, and mike probably also did the same.
AlPiNe~
I don't know I think I should have done better against the stalker, maybe its my head alignment (I doubt it) or maybe it was the gun, it was doing some weird things. Because looking at the GOL 2008 results I should have JTG the stalker easily. And I should have done better against the PL2. I think sometime I will have to recheck the heads and see if they are pointing out too much. I know they are level, but they might not be straight ahead.
Prolaser 2 Stalker LZ1 Ultralyte
Languy99 327 358 372
GOL 2008 276 30 680
One question, how are the LED's in the blinder aligned on the circuit board? Straight on, dead ahead or what? Anyone have a picture of a J16 taken apart? Maybe I should swap the heads around, have the LEDs on the outside and the receptors on the inside. From the GOL 2008 test pictures I can see they are mounted opposite of mine. Maybe that has something to do with the punchthroughs.
IDK i've never had any issues with my LZ1 i shoot it frequently and have no problems with it. I think it is just such a weird gun, and rare, it's kind of a different gun that people aren't used to the platform.
Also The GOL has had similar occurences that maybe jim just doesn't recall from years prior with the LZ1 where it would get miracoulous PT at well over 1,000ft on a blinder Lidar jammer. Does this happen all the time. Not always, can it happen more than once yes. It depends on a number of uncontrolled variables, the shooter, the particulates/water particles in the air/ the weather/ Each run is different, even though you try to keep these varibles the same, I gaurentee you eventually something won't be the same in one run as in the next. The terrian as well could also play a part. I have watched PT like that occur frequently in GOL tests with the LZ1 where even happyA$$ was getting upset with his blinders, going What the heck? This has happened in Lorain ohio as well, and is documented on older GOL videos. Watch them. See for yourself. The LZ1 is a truely Deadly gun, and can never be thought of or overlooked as a "Easy Gun to jam." Now the PLIII thats a different story. If this problem was occcuring on that Then i'd concern myself. Although 300ft on a LZ1 I wouldn't even concern myself. I'd slide my heads out a little further, and call it good. I truely wouldn't expect alot more out of a blinder than 200-300ft consistent jam, with the occasional miracoulus PT, i mean even LI has Miraclous PT's look at StealthJamal he got PT on a Quad head LI that no one else could attain. Do we need to question that gun as well? I mean it got PT didn't it? ANd if the gun got More PT that tells you it's working better not worse. Even Leon has stated and will tell you, call him, he'll tell you i'm gonna be honest with you, don't expect JTG all the time from a blinder, but will it save your butt most times YOU BET! You've seen that, it's very consistent really, up to 300ft will that most times save you? Yes, i'd say quite often most of the time ya. They rearly shoot that close to start with you have plenty of time to cut it down. Thats what Leon would tell you. He'd say, "Look i'm not going to bs or lie to you." Is it going to JTG everytime, "NO" Can it on occasion on the right car, "YES." Although he will tell you on most cars you can expect 200 300ft most times pretty consistently.
He will also tell you this, because i guarentee your thinking well the J16Rev head is supposed to be so much better. Well I got this info from not too long ago even. Just this summer infact. He told me, "They beefed up the LED output on the New J15-J16 Rev heads, but they still aren't getting the results they want "YET" He even told me he wasn't totally impressed with the improvment, and said it wasn't leaps and bounds or anything, but it was a hair better. THis comes right from the cat's mouth in Palm Beach FLA. So What i'm saying is they are still working on LI type preformence and expect them to have it soon, as they are determined to take back that market from the sounds of what Leon was discussing with me on the phone. But I respect Leon for being honest. And thats why I loved seeing you had a blinder. Because He is Legit, he won't lie to you, and he'll back you up Languy which is good. He'll help you if anything goes wrong with your setup, and is in my opinon the most respected CS LJ retailer on this board. So it's not The LZ1, it's not totally your setup although like I said i'd move them out a tad more, not like alot but some make sure that head can see past your hood to the top part of the hood that is insturmental in your success with blinder. Remember they don't have the "Wide" off axis angle view that LI or LPP has. Other than that, I thought your setup worked GREAT languy, and I don't see any reason for any complaints it's working exactly as it should, and your jamming very well. I think your doing very good. More than good enough to Evade any officer in Mi that tried to nail you.
It was nothing to smack somebody 3,000ft out with the LZ1.
I had no issue getting punch through on it, but i've used it alot now too. The beam divergance is only 3 milirand wide. Which makes it 1 very hard to detect, and 2 it is a very hard gun to jam. Which is why it's in the arsenal, that and it has jam indicator codes which are nice.
The pulse rate is dead on at 130pps
Meaning it isn't the gun. It is TX/Transmitting just fine.
It is just deadly. Honestly 300ft is pretty typical. Even with a PL2 against a Blinder setup. The best you might do is 200~ 250ft on most cars. Unless you go gun ho like yours truely and take everything reflective away from the shooter entirely. Not to mention your heads where "SLIGHTLY" tucked in. We aren't talking "Leaps and bounds but i'd move them out about another 1/4 inch if it where me.
This will aid them in keeping reflections from above the head from bouncing back, because if you have them recessed where the top part of the diodes cannot see the incoming TX signals then what good are you doing. If I shot you center mass on your hood i'd get PT easily. If you move them out the 1/4 inch that PT would dissapate or dissapear entirely.
Trust me I know, i've made blinders JTG with 4 guns pointed at them Languy. It can be done, although the setup is very very critical. And even that 1/4 inch will make differences that would wow you.
NMA is just not used to the LZ1 he just has the PL2 which is a nice gun don't get me wrong. Although it is totally different in platform and attempting to compare the two is like comparing apples to oranges. First off the PL2 is 4ft wide at 1,000ft where the LZ1 is 3Ft wide at 1000ft.
If that gives you any idea how much tighter the beam is and the optics on the LZ1 compared to the PL2.
Not saying the PL2 doesn't have good optics it does, it was made by Laser Atlanta for goodness sake.
Although, i personally beleive the LZ1 is alot nastier gun the the PL2 in my opinon. Due to the fact that you have two totally seperate lenses on the LZ1 one for TX and one for RX. The PL2 doesn't have these types of lenses. It merely has one inner and outer lens which in essence are more like having only 1 lense to do both operations similar to the PL1.
This makes receiveing PT alot faster, and alot easier. Although, don't forget a dark color car will give lidar problems, and also to boot the tightness of the beam itself compared to the PL2 to a new operator would make it seem very difficult compared to the PL2 to accuire a reading.
As I said before that gun was originally LPP's gun that they used for testing. It is legit.
The doppler doesn't go off on the Stalker LZ1 constantly that is a misconception that they had. It goes off when it sees something reflective. Meaning when it wasn't tonning it was because the Lidar didn't see a reflective point, this is the lidar guns way of telling the operator, move me to a better more reflective point. This is good for you because you found out that yes red is a dark color as I stated to you at the event, and that it's not as reflective as persay chrome your headlamps.
On to some more results.
Spectre II RDD Testing numbers
Vette 9500Ci Not detected.
Aoshi's satty Not detected. Sti-R
GTO_04 1.7 V1 Detected 113Ft
GTO_04 1.8 V1 Detected 170Ft
Languy 3.864v1 Detected Rear 290Ft Front 460Ft
Whistler Pro 58 Languy Detected Rear 816Ft Front 6/10 mile.
Bel 955 Detected Front 145Ft
Mike's 9500ix Detected Rear 0 Front 60ft
Escort X-50 Detected Front 477ft
9500i (NON ix) Detected Front 270ft
AlPiNe~;)
Do you guys think you'll have one in the spring? The drive wasn't the problem, just this was probably the worst week for me with all the driving I'll be doing in a couple days. I need an excuse to go visit some friends at Michigan State.
Most likely the 4th annual Alpine Invatational event will be held in July of 2009.
It's a yearly event and get together. We are bumping it to July to make sure we have warmer weather this next time.
AlPiNe~;)
Interesting... Are your heads aligned and leveled properly? Are they unobstructed and mounted flush with the front bumper? There have been many tests against the LZ1 with the LI equipped on vehicles with a far more reflective signature than your vehicle. For instance, at our NE testing event, CrazyVolvoRob, Hockey005, Dorsce, and TambourineMan all have Laser Interceptors. They all have front plates. CVR was the only one with a Laser Shield. They were all able to JTG the Stalker without breaking a sweat. Not to mention every other gun thrown at them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoshi
My car has the LI heads obstructed behind my mesh grill and I JTG the LZ1 when the shooter aims center mass. My license plate has a laser shield and is mounted below my driver's side headlamp and PT with the LZ1 is achieved by aiming the perimeter of the targeting dot, within the scope, at the corners of my headlamp or lower right side of my plate. And when it does occur, it happens at less than 1000 ft. With a tripod, aim starting at, and concentrating on those weakspots, it may be possible to achieve a 900ft PT. Aiming directly at the headlamps will result in JTG. And don't forget, my heads are obstructed. The only gun that pwn3d my headlamps with the LI heads mounted the way they are is the PL3. The TruSpeed may do the same.
Why is any of that relevant? Because this is the first time we've seen such paltry results of LI vs LZ1. A few last questions, did the shooter begin targeting at 3500 ft and finally achieve PT at around 1000ft? If so, could the heads be overheating? Now that wouldn't surprise me at all. I would beware of such strenuous testing and would also be concerned for my LI's reliability at that point. One has to wonder if these 2000+ ft tests decrease the lifespan of the LI or other non-time limited jammers in general? I think these are valid questions that should be addressed.
And regarding the Laser Shield, anything that helps cut down the IR signature of your vehicle is a good buy. Not to mention bugs are easily removed from it. :D
You know, we can question the crap outta the LI but the fact is, as a passive countermeasure, the LaserShield does sweet f**k all.
If my car can passively Jam to 300ft, and adding the plate/lasershield combo screws me over at 1,000+ feet (WITH the jammer on!) then what use is the LaserShield?
The heads are level, although they are below my bumper and recessed back about 1/4" or so. This only covers the top of the heads by a small amount, but they are on each side of the plate, so this should have been the absolute BEST position to defend the front plate.
As for overheating, now that is a distinct possibility... though we only ever did 2 runs in a row before breaking and it was really, really freaking cold (Snowing on and off). Shooting began at 3,000ft, but the only 3,000ft reading Alpine got was on the rear of passing trucks (Correct me if I'm wrong!)
Either way, I'm extremely dissapointed. Even looking at it as a strictly passive countermeasure I would have expected A LOT more. Used in combination with Veiled lights (and a jammer!) still offered a PT at well above 1,000ft - not the results ANYONE (but Alpine) expected!
In our testing the Laser Sheild did nothing to reduce you signature.
Thats what Aoshi was trying to tell you. He finally got a chance to see that himself and wants answers I think now, as he finally got a chance to see in realtime that what i expressed wasn't bs and the Laser Sheild itself does nothing to reduce your lidar signature.
Hence why he said adding veil would be your only option. Although I haven't added in yet that when I attempted that with veil all it did is make my plate look like it got covered in dirt. And you would for surely get light up at that point for an obsructed plate even with the lightest of coatings from what I had seen attempting to apply it multipule different times to the same poor look and result. It for some reason doesn't take to the cover very nicely. Why I could never understand. I think it is because veil is so runny.
Aoshi will also agree I think now that the only true way to reduce a plate reflection is to remove the plate from the picture entirely.
Unfortunatly front plate required people really don't have many options out there today, cr8aplate is the only true option, and they don't look right, they can be noticed if checked. Also they are so non alike I would be very leary attempting to run one as a rear plate.
As for targeting distances yes, cars where shot for the hole length of the test course 3,500ft.
As for the Jammer heat? I don't think that was a factor, it was roughly 30 degree's Feirnheit outdoors. And in the past i've had no problems JTG'ing those types of distances. Not saying i didn't JTG that day, i was busy making video's and shooting lidar at times.
Center mass shots where done, as well as headlight, and even a roofline shot or two was attempted, as well as in some run's a side mirror shot. Although those where not the primary aiming places for every run.
Manufacturing varience I say. Maybe that is what it is ;) maybe I just have one deadly LZ1 any takers lol? :D Hey I guess atleast I don't have a dud? :o
Aoshi I didn't want to speak on your behalf about the Laser Sheild although I think you see now that Laser Sheild itself is quite a dissapointment. Very dissapointing, and I still to this day don't understand why so many people think it's "Gotta" work, if anybody doesn't beleive me, stop on by. I'll even let you shoot the LZ1, or the PL2. Which ever suits your fancy. I was upset too when I found it to be utterly a useless 20 dollar investment, but let's not let others fall into that pitfall here and haveing them wasting their hard earned cash on something that i've seen time and time again fail miserably, and yet does nothing. I think Roy says it best when he talks of RMR, "It's as good as putting a brick on your dash." I think Aoshi finally got to see that, and i'm glad he got a chance to see it, and is now "Informed." I really do hope somebody does come out with something to help those people in areas where frontal plates are a req. Although, i'm not about to act like something works when it so obviously does not. Why others on this board brag about it, nor endorse it I do not understand. I am not sure, maybe there is $ involved? Who knows. Once again Like I said the other day in another thread to each their own, beleive what you want to beleive, waste your money, see for yourself. We try to inform others and thats all we can do, if you neglect to listen thats your deal, and not our problem.
As for Aoshi, I am just glad you got to see that, I didn't even know you where the one that I had warned so hard against that, untill you mentioned it at the test site. So I am very glad you got a chance to make the test and that you came Aoshi, so that you could see how upsetting that device really is. Although Aoshi even though I can tell you too now want answers as to why people on here endorse it, NMA and I also want answers as do, multipule other old time board members that have seen it fail over and over again. I am just glad that you know now Aoshi, so that you can maybe find something that is effective to protect your front end more since you do have to run that front plate.
Back to working on that video...
Peace to all..
AlPiNe~:)
I think a better test for validating the performance of the laser shield would have been 2 runs with the front plate only, no laser shield and no jammer. Then 2 more runs with the laser shield covering the front plate and no jammer. If results were the same, then it's conclusive that the laser shield is a gimmick. I personally have never tried such a test. However, I have used the special signal strength tone indicator setting from the Ultralyte LR to test the IR signature of the front plate with and without the Laser Shield. I assure you that the intensity without the shield was stronger. I've also visually confirmed this with a green laser pointer, red laser pointer, and the flash from a camera. From those three visible tests, I concluded that the reflection WITH the laser shield was still bright as all h3ll but it was NOT as bright as the reflection with no shield. So.... What am I saying, if the laser shield was removed from the front plate with the LI active, then maybe Alpine would have gotten a 1400 ft reading with his LZ1 on Aoshi's car. To say the laser shield is useful by itself would be foolish. If it doesn't at least cut down on the plate's IR signature for you, at least it'll help keep your plate clean!:p
Again, were these 1000ft pt's obtained while targeting center mass?
All in all, your results are inline with those reported by the man from the land down under, Tactical.
I'll give this test a whirl this weekend. Should be interesting!
Thank you guys again for the report!
We did that, and i've done it personally and the LS does nothing Pmouth take it for what it is ok? Either that or go buy a lidar and check it yourself if your so in disbelief.
AlPiNe~
another thing I wanted to add, people keep saying 35.5 is not good for long distances. We were getting speed readings on vehicles up to the top of the hill, over 3500 feet away. The smaller vehicles were harder to pickup, but if you have a truck or bigger you are screwed. Small vehicles I would say 2500 feet was the max.
what about pop test languy did you test it like you told us.
I did the pop test against the 35.5 ka in my car and from at least my experience having it on did help with early detection. And having it on also helped with even 16ms pop, we tested it against a z35 from MPH industries. It was not reliable but at least you have some chance of picking it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior86
Oh wow really having pop on helped picking up ka 35.5 early. Well thats good news. So woul you say it increse the senstivy of ka band altille or what.
That's what I would say, at least in my V1. Each person can come to their own conclusion but the only thing I say is, if it was not needed why would Mike V. have it on from default while every other RD out there has it off?
I agree i had pop on to and it pickup a leo running constant on pretty good, but after the leo passed me for a while it Jd him out. This happen to two diffent leos.
Why do you think this happend
I could be that it j'd out the leo or maybe a cobra came behind you and it saw that and j'd it out. I have yet to have any real leos j'd out, only crappy detectors and I have had pop on since I got the detector over 7 months ago. Really, even if it did that I would not care because it let me know about the leo as early as possible that is what I am looking for. The second I see ka I slow down and pay attention.
was the k band sensitivity increase too
I didn't test k band because I have already tested that before.
so basically I should leave pop on my Valentine one, since it helps with 35.5 as the leos use that in my area alot.
that's what I do, I always leave it on. Unless j outs drive you nuts leave it on.
Dint some one here did majority test on pop mode and said if 35.5 ka or 34.7 is used you shouldn have it on cause it decrease ka sensitivy. Dont get me wrong I do belive you . Just saying, let me try to find that thered.
Not sure if you guys will agree with me or not but.... PoP on or off affects the "response" to an alert and not sensitivity. That's to say the V1 is very sensitive to K band out of the box. Turning PoP on makes the unit respond just a little quicker to the initial alert. Also I think it "delays" Ka resonse, just a little, because it spends more time scanning the 33.8 portion of Ka band. I like using PoP on in PA because all they use in I/O k band. The V1 is even better at detecting those distant k band hits with PoP on than off. I suppose if you live in an area where 33.8 Ka band is used then PoP on may be a better choice. If it's 34.7 or 35.5 then leave PoP off. My .02__________________
there i found it
And a big thnk you to SMS for helping to make the Spectre test possible:
GTO_04
No need to get abrasive bro!! That wasn't clear from what you and Aoshi posted earlier. Thank you again for clarifying though.Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinestars_2002795
Dangit, looks like I missed a LOT of good fun. :(
As I've already sent my apologies to alpine, I wanted to say here, too, guys, my apologies.
It seems that, out of all my various hobbies over the years, this has been the hardest one for me to meet-up, live, with friends. Perhaps it's just the timing (the fact that I now have a family - whereas with the other hobbies, I did not have that constraint)...... It's no longer nearly as easy for me to just up and go away for the weekend, or even a day.
Come to think of it, given my lack of ability to make any of my local car-clubs' meets, as of the last three years, that's gotta be it! :p Maybe when Anna grows up a bit more, I'll bring her along, just like erickonphoenix does with his. :)
----
WOW - Now that's some pretty interesting stuff, RE: LaserShield.
I honestly don't understand why it would fail the way it did - i.e. specifically in the way that it did, for Aoshi's setup.... :confused:
From various pictures - various members, no less, not just one - it seems to not only "scatter/diffuse" the incoming, like we all thought it would, but it also seemed to truly attenuate IR (REF: mswlogo's post, of his Jeep).
Is the Stalker really *that* deadly, close-in, that any amount of forward-facing "retro-reflective" surface equals an instant death-sentence?
From the way the LaserShield failed, I'd almost think that it simply wasn't attenuating IR enough - that it still allowed the Stalker's beam to "penetrate" it enough that it caught the underlying front plate's reflection.....
As alpine pointed out, a CR8APL8 is not viable for everyone - but based on the way it cut the return signal from LittleOverPSL's (and I also seem to remember the same, from noory) testing (audible doppler return), I also agree with alpine that perhaps it, or other self-made (i.e. photocopy) replicas like it, might be the only way to go, if pulling the front plate, outright, is not possible.
Aoshi, you mentioned above that you'd pair the LaserShield with VEIL - but my very real-world question to you would be whether a coat of VEIL over LaserShield would be enough?
Given the fact that the PT occurred at 1000 ft.......you can see my concern.....
And that brings up my other question -
At 1000 ft., the beamwidth is going to be about 36 inches, give-or-take.
That's well over the physical footprint of the front plate, no matter how that's cut.
With that in-mind....
Question: Is there something else about that particular set of runs that made for this whopping PT, even with the LIs engaged?
BTW - it's not that I don't believe y'all ;).......I think that the data speaks for itself - something's "not right," with that LaserShield setup.
Rather, it's that as a fellow hobbyist, I'd like to pursue the exact reasons why what seems, by all logic, *should* be a performance-capable specific-point countermeasure, is instead defying reason, and showing real-world performance DEGRADATION, of what is perhaps the best active jammer on-market.
I'm asking these questions because I'm truly concerned - and I want to get to the bottom of the issue. It's not to prove anyone right or wrong. :)
Was the plate-fastening hardware metal?
Did edges of the front plate overhang the protective area of the LaserShield?
Anything - anything - else that could possibly caused a concern, however small or seemingly insignificant?
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Thanks, guys for doing this test - and for sharing the results with us! :D
No problem Pmouth, didn't mean to be abrasive, just have been having an extremely long, rough week. Not feeling the greatest :( I think it's finally getting to me, even taking St. John's wart i'm still getting the bitter taste in my mouth of being sick. I guess being zapped physically and then all the excitment of the test. Then coming back down with more colitis issues yet again, as me very irritable. That, and the fact that it seems every time I turn around on this board, somebody has to argue it seems with people that are just average joe's that have the equipment in question, and do it for the goodness of the board, and everybody in this community. Yet people still get on here daily and try to give us a wrath of disbeleif. When it's like, i have no reason to lie to you, as I said i'm just the average joe. I mean I drive a saturan SL1 for goodness sake, I'm just a average person, with my own video buisness, and thats all. I try to make my sightings as honest and clear as possible if I see something that doesn't work, i call the person's bluff, if someone tries to pay me off i've told them to get bent, and thats that. So when i've spent like 20,000 dollars alone on my end into this industry for testing products for others benifit, and I stand to gain 0 dollars from it other than knowlege to help better mine and yours day, when someone berates me, or others testing that i know are also legit, it upsets me yes, and it does so in good reason. I guess it goes back to, to the saying of, "One person can only take so much garbage."
It seems we have newbee's come in here each week there is a new one that thinks he is just over the top. They come in they bash, nothing is done to stop said drama. ANd wella you have oldtimers get upset, they think, "Why do I bother?" They stop answering your questions, and they think, "Fine all the new individuals can figure all this out on their own." Or they get tired of the way some companies just are in this industry to scam innocent bistandards out of their hard earned wages, and they opt to walk away from this board/industry. Which I myself have almost done recently. As well as alot of other members have became burnt out of this industry and others have ruined this hobby for alot of people. Especially when it seems everytime you post you have an individual come in and try to "Debunk the myth" behind your testing. When we all know all of us on here are Legit. Especially the old board members like Jim, Myself, NMA, GTO_04, HappyA$$, and coutless others I could make the list go on for days of great people on this board. Although I could also make another list of individuals that seem to have nothing better to do, than when those people who spend all their time, money, and efforts to help the rest of us; who'd just rather come in and belittle someone elses testing results.
So in the end, and in conclusion?
I'd say I maybe did get a little hostile and have been lately but I guess it's just getting old having to constantly be on defense, due to a large number of individuals that feel the need to have nothing better to do, then come on said board, and try to make someone else frown.
I personally think, what NMA has said time and time again. We are all here for the same purpose right? so, "Can't we all just get along?" We are here to test these things, do all we can do, and maybe even help with idea's for bigger and better things right? So why not put our heads together as one group and not clash, we'd get alot further in think.
Sorry. Just alot of passion for this board, it's members, and I'm tired of seeing it slide down the tubes. I just wish we could all meet on common grounds. Atleast at some point.
Although this post has more than ran it's course and that is not what this board is intended for, and is off topic from what this thread was intended for. So good day to all and peace to the board.
I am back off to edit more on the video cheers as they say in Aussie thanks for the picture of the pen GTO, and have an outstanding day, and happy speeding to all :D.
AlPiNe~
^ Don't see it that way, bruddah. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinestars_2002795
I'm, as you know, in basic-science research.
Our results are questioned all the time - similarly, we constantly challenge the results of our colleagues.
That's how science goes. You put forward an assertion, then you defend it. There's a reason why they call getting a Ph.D. a "Dissertation Defense." ;) You've got to, time and again, be willing to, in a detached manner, with logic and reason, defend what you put forward as your thinking of "why it happened."
To an extent, that's how I see our discussions here.
That we are putting forward our ideas, and debating, among friends with the same interest and level of obsession, why we saw what we saw, what it means, and what that should translate to, in terms of the actions that we take to protect ourselves.
+1.Quote:
I personally think, what NMA has said time and time again. We are all here for the same purpose right? so, "Can't we all just get along?" We are here to test these things, do all we can do, and maybe even help with idea's for bigger and better things right? So why not put our heads together as one group and not clash, we'd get alot further in think.
But it would do us no good to constantly agree with each other, either. ;) We need to challenge each other, in order to further *each* of our understandings of what's going on.
But we should all know that we do so, as brothers and sisters - with the common goal of making sure we're all as protected as can be, and to help others achieve the same. :)
Sorry it took me so long to get back w/ everyone. I was exhausted after getting back on Sunday and fell asleep at 6pm. I want to personally thank Alpine,Jimbonzz,GTO04,Languy,Aoshi,Mike O and his child for coming the distances they did to make it to the event. It was nice to meet everyone and do testing w/ all of you. Thx for posting that pic GTO, it looks really cool. Jimbonzz, please keep the C batteries since you have helped us and brought some neat things which we really appreciate. Some of the testing results were surprising but nothing too extreme. Languy, you Blinder did a very good job and as long as you level them out a little, YOU SHOULD BE FINE. Aoshi, I really appreciate you bringing that darn Bel STi-R so I could finally get a chance to look at it. Now I have some closure on that. As far as newbies questioning our results, I don't see why since we are the ones spending the $$$$ on this equipment. Let's keep the peace and all shake one another's hand and we will be fine. God-bless you all, proudNMAmember.:):):)
TSi+WRX - I appreciate the concern for an accurate test, that's why we did a dry run with no plate and the jammers off..... we got a PT at just over 300ft. Every other time, with the jammers ON I was JTG with every single gun.
The weak spot is the front plate, and *if* the Laser Shield offered any protection on that, it was so minimal it was pointless to have. Who honestly cares if it reduces a PT from 1,200ft to 1,000 ft? In Ontario (and many other places), speed readings are invalid over 1,000 ft anyway due to the beam spread.
Now, I've applied Veil VERY lightly directly on the plate using a cloth, and applied a second layer the same way on the outside of the Laser Shield. I would bet if we were to test again I would get much better results, and there is almost no reflectivity on the plate now. The tradeoff? My plate looks dirty, but not tinted...
I totally agree with Aoshi's findings as those where and have been my own findings for ever on the LS testing. It does "Slightly hamper the gun." "ALTHOUGH" only at "EXTREME" distances, where it is pointless anyhow. If it did hamper it, it was barely even noticeable to me with testing. It May cause a tenth of a second delay at an Extreme distance. Not even enough to be worth the time of installing it. Now, add veil and you might have something. This I haven't actually tested with a Lidar speed gun. Although I have attempted to apply it to a LS and got the same result Aoshi received, a very dirty looking plate. And here where I live the Leo's would mess with me over it, so I simply removed it. The GOL has although done their own testing with the combo of Veiled LS and it does hamper it more. It still didn't prove to be a failsafe against frontal laser with a front plate.
Although the two combined in their testing did help "Some."
Whereas when I have tested just the LS it did nothing at all. I still beleive the only way to really cut down the refection to a amount that would prove entirely usefull and maybe still JTG is a Cr8aplt Although the plates look so different as I said they can be easily spoted although on the front, they aren't looked at so closely so frequently and one would most likely be able to get away with it more I would assume.
The only way to really avoid the front plate thing is take it off as Aoshi did for his trip home, and say hey it got stolen, lol that was good stuff aoshi. Or, use a cr8plt and take the risk of getting nailed for it. Or, run veil and LS although that probably won't provide near the protection of the first two things stated.
Unfortunetly your best bet is to keep the requirment in your area for front plates a non needed item and get involved in your local gov, although getting people together behind something as such is hard. But this is honestly everybody's best bet is to make it so that your area in the future doesn't require you to run one, tell your friends, confidants the real reason they want you running them, get the word around, that way if it comes up for vote atleast they vote it down hopefully too!
Back to working on the video... The intro is completed, working on the Main portions of the video. And then the end credits it's coming along well thus far. Will be posting it here when i'm completed.
AlPiNe~