PL3 and LA, about 15 degrees off axis.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMoth
That can't be true??? What gun were you using and how far off-axis were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by category4
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PL3 and LA, about 15 degrees off axis.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMothThat can't be true??? What gun were you using and how far off-axis were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by category4
No reading with PL3? :eek: Hmm, must have been the angle. Always thought that gun was a "sure getter."
The angle and the speed. It was not during a test it was shooting cars out on the interstate. Speed was about 80 and I believe it was a small black Mercedes.
The reason I say they did not have jammers was they did not appear to slow at all while I was targeting them. The LA it happens fairly often, especially if the car is running HID's.
Skip to about one minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guysorry, to clarify, if one didn't have a jammer, have there been any tests to show on average, how many seconds it takes to get a reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth StalkerEvery test determines that. That's what we test for. Sometimes you have forever, because he never gets a read on you. Other times, your set-up sucks and you have no time because he gets instant punchthrough. It is entirely dependent on YOUR set-up, and YOUR encounter, not what results other people get.Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guy
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXcQ92ulk6M]YouTube - Blinder M25 and M45 Laser Jammers[/ame]
All these guns are stupid deadly on a tripod and all will acquire speeds as fast as the unit is capable of. In Canada, this may be the case regularly unfortunately. But when hand held, its a total different ball game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay_in_Nashville
Category4, that's extremely hard to believe that the PL3 and LA failed to lock a speed. Also, to have the LA do it often, I gotta wonder if your guns need maintenance. Not saying its impossible though because I understand that other members have also had the same problem.
It does not happen often with the PL3, but does happen with the LA. The LA is new, manufactured in jan 09.
The LA seems to have problems with bright lights or reflections of bright lights.
I also admit I am not the steadiest shot freehand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMothAll these guns are stupid deadly on a tripod and all will acquire speeds as fast as the unit is capable of. In Canada, this may be the case regularly unfortunately. But when hand held, its a total different ball game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay_in_Nashville
Category4, that's extremely hard to believe that the PL3 and LA failed to lock a speed. Also, to have the LA do it often, I gotta wonder if your guns need maintenance. Not saying its impossible though because I understand that other members have also had the same problem.
Maybe it's the "freehandedness"? Cbr's LA doens't have problems with HIDs, OEM or aftermarket. Granted, it did take maybe half a second longer (than the half second it normally takes) when aiming directly into high beams. CM was unaffected.
I think his is a year to a couple months older than yours, but can't remember.
Also, neither of us regularly sit out by traffic to randomly tag traffic, so you are exposed to a lot more "jammerless" cars than I am. But, of the ones I've shot, there hasn't been one I haven't been able to get a reading from.
EDIT 2: Remember that not everyone slows downs and kills (didn't eric have a nifty acronym for it?) their jammers. There's a lot of installs where all the person knows is they're "immune" from police, and they're being shot when the thing starts making noise.
The VEIL Guy also reported this observation (in another conversation that we were having, altogether, on the SpeedTrapHunter Forums).Quote:
Originally Posted by category4
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I really think, as do many of you, that it's dependent on a lot of variable conditions/factors:
- ambient lighting
- ambient weather
- operator skill/knowledge (including both how steady the shot is, as well as his/her "pick" of the initial engagement hardpoint, etc.)
- operator interaction with enforcement device (i.e. how one person may "take" to the ergonomics of any one device can make a tremendous difference in targeting accuracy and speed: why do people spend a lot of money to customize their firearms? ;))
- vehicle characteristics (surface finish/condition, hardpoint profile, lighting profile, etc.)
- interactions between the ambient conditions and vehicle characteristics (i.e. is the sun glinting off the chrome trim, causing a tremendous amount of glare to be fed back to the LIDAR's receiver optics), as well as setup characteristics (did the enforcer stupidly set up so that he's facing the setting/rising sun? is he trying to shoot through vehicle greenhouse glass? rearview mirror "bounce shot?" etc.)
- the characteristics of the device used - remember that one of our members, using a jammer, was interviewed not because the enforcer got an error- or jam-code, but rather because this enforcer, a seasoned veteran, realized that his favorite LIDAR device just wasn't "doing what it usually does," when painting/targeting that member's vehicle - some guns do lock faster than others, and this can even vary with consideration to other factors
- unique device (i.e. "this" LA versus "that" LA; "his" PL3 versus "my" PL3 versus "that guy's" PL3) differences - yes, these things all have to fall within tolerance and be certifiable, but that doesn't mean that there can't be differences to be had between unique devices...remember Mike B's awesome laboratory testing of various unique radar detectors, and that there was a measurable difference of 1, 2, or even 3 dBs sensitivity between different examples of "the same" detector? production variances can make a difference
Can it be "instantaneous?" Or at least within the "1/3 of a second, nominal" figure that the manufacturers like to put out?
I certainly believe that it can - I've seen that it can, countless times, and I think that anyone who even routinely watches hobbyist testing videos can attest to this fact. I have no doubt that it can. And in being on the defensive side of the equation, I like to always assume that is the case.
However, at the same time, it should also be noted that lock can be delayed for upwards of a second, two, three, or even longer - and that it is within the framework of this "possible" window that most of us try to take corrective action, whatever that may be. We've seen this sometimes ourselves, first-hand, as the words of our fellow hobbyists in this thread honestly debate, but even for those of us who do not have access to police LIDAR devices have seen this happen on countless videos made by our fellow enthusiasts, and even by various vested-interest parties.
Who could forget that time when the infamous steagall1000, advertising the Blinder M25 J11, tried locking a dark-colored late-model Dodge/Eagle sedan (with no countermeasures whatsoever) only to have the vehicle fail to return with a valid reading at all. :lol:
No, we should *NOT* count on this window always being there.
But it is not altogether impossible.
Still, again, in being on the defensive, one needs to assume the worst - there is a need to slow as fast as possible, in as reasonable of a manner as possible ( i.e. locked wheels with tires ablaze on asphalt will certainly earn you a ticket :lol: ).
In terms of the OP's concern/circumstances, though, I truly think that ELVATO's tactical analysis brings up some very, very good thinking/debate points:
^ That, and I also think that they use tripods or monopods, sometimes..... I could have sworn I've seen that in various north-of-the-border hobbyist videos. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ELVATO
Indeed, I don't know what to make of that tactical situation. That's a very, very hard one.
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"Front plate" -
I am 99% positive I was targeted (in my wife's FXT) on the front plate this past weekend. "Back-calculating" from the fact that my high-mounted x50 did *not* alert and my usual "one-one thousand, two-one thousand, etc...." counts, initial engagement distance was actually a fairly generous 1000 ft. or so.
I'm almost certain that it was chosen as the favorite targeting spot. Center-mass on her vehicle would have been higher up the beltline, and at that distance, by experience, I know that the x50 should have alerted, given the LIDAR used.
Oh, and no, no worries, I wasn't speeding much, and the LI took care of what little doubt that there could have been. ;)
I've shot enough black cars and had trouble getting a lock on them that my next cat just may be black for that reason. It's a PITA to keep clean but I believe it gives you a second or more to slowdown against laser with the color alone.