We spend alot of time around here correcting jrock23's incorrect and misleading statements.
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We spend alot of time around here correcting jrock23's incorrect and misleading statements.
B.S.
The only thing misleading, is the suggestion that Veil doesn't provide protection below 1400 or 1000 feet or can provide 5 seconds or so of reaction time in many instances in the real-world.
While I have stated that I don't doubt that some of you have automobiles that make lousy candidates for Veil alone, that doesn't mean EVERY other vehicle also makes a lousy candidate. Those who would extrapolate such individual experiences are the ones that are not being accurate or fair to Veil, which is disappointing considering that lengths some of you go to actually "test" or claim to be factual or knowledgeable.
For every vehicle that has high punch throughs with Veil only, I'd bet that those punch throughs are coming from sources other than those that are actually treated with Veil. Why not put energy into finding out what those sources are, instead of relentlessly trashing Veil, instead.
I know a number of Veil (only) users are having good success in the real-world.
It's unfortunate that some who claim to be otherwise independent and to be keeping it real, are decidedly not when repeatedly bashing my company's product. You guys don't have to like my company's product, or even myself, but, at least, I would appreciate you taking your anti-Veil bias, and keeping it to yourselves. Be happy with your $1000 plus laser jammer systems and please leave my company's $90 solution, alone. Thank you.
Thanks jrock23 (and other), for your continued support, it's appreciated.
It's most unfortunate that you and others who express even a little support for my company's product, have to be subjected to relentless attacks from those who are unable to understand and appreciate the capabilities of Veil in the real-world against real-world speed traps...
Let the personal attacks, begin...:mad:
But that is exactly the point, Bob. Officers don't shoot your Veil. They shoot your car. It's just disingenuous to claim that Veil alone has a chance of giving you significant time against LIDAR when the Veil only coats about 5 percent of the entire front end. That's like claiming you have a good chance of surviving a firefight if you wear a helmet, but no other body armour. The chances are so slim that they simply aren't measurable.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
This isn't a detraction from Veil at all. It's good at what it does. I'm a big supporter, and always will be. But people are being mislead into believing that simply Veiling their headlights is some kind of magic force field, and it isn't.
Exactly correct! If someone speeds into laser traps with just Veil and a RD, they're gonna get PWN3D! Period. There is even a decent chance that they'd get tagged and never get a laser alert at all from their RD. If they don't get pulled over, it's probably only because they weren't going fast enough. Trying to suggest this combination as a viable alternative to a laser jammer is being overly optomistic, at best. There is no $90 laser jammer. From my testing, I am convinced that Veil makes a fantastic addition to a laser jammer, but is not usable an a jammer alternative. That's what I've seen in my testing, so that's what I report.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth StalkerBut that is exactly the point, Bob. Officers don't shoot your Veil. They shoot your car. It's just disingenuous to claim that Veil alone has a chance of giving you significant time against LIDAR when the Veil only coats about 5 percent of the entire front end. That's like claiming you have a good chance of surviving a firefight if you wear a helmet, but no other body armour. The chances are so slim that they simply aren't measurable.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
That's BS! Pure and simple. Tell that to guys like Victor who has had at least five successful encounters with Veil alone!
You can believe what you want to believe, but YOU are NOT being fair or even intellectually honest (not that you may care).Those that refuse to accept these actual experiences in the real-world and others as happening as explained, suggests [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias"]cognitive bias[/ame], to say the least, along with potentially [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attributional_bias"]attribution bias[/ame], and of course, a huge amount of arrogance.
The most reflective parts of the vehicle are the most reflective parts by far, the headlights, the fog-lights, and the license plate areas. That 5% what you say is responsible for nearly 95% of what the police lasers can read. I've been involved in the field of stealth for more than half of many of your ages! Please don't presume to lecture me on the nature of stealth and punch-throughs. We were the first to document and video (with staton), long-distance punch throughs, nearly five years ago. Long before many of you even heard of RD.NET or even what is LIDAR.
Particularly against the LZ1, LTI, LA Stealth guns, Veil alone (given the right vehicle) can and does do wonders.
Plenty of posters who have posted such positive experiences of the YEARS since this forum was created. Guys like Sethy, Happya$$, Vic, and others who have had GREAT success with Veil ALONE.
I don't understand why so many users of laser jammers (primarily, it appears, to be LI users) are so against my company's product.
From what I understand from the GoL, Veil alone performed extremely well against the Traffipatrol when the LI crew discounted any possibility of Veil effectiveness prior to the runs of Veil only. Does this dislike of the product come from the top-down of the LI cabal? Not that it really matters. BTW, I am curious, how many of the LI crew here actually received free product or heavily discounted product? I already know of a couple. I am just curious, do others have the moral clarity to actually indicate this in their signatures? Also how many replacement heads? Anyone really care to share this, also in their signatures?
I am just really getting sick and tired of all the negativity that has festered on this forum for more than a year now. Sick and tired of it. I stay out of your LI forums, please extend me the same courtesy, thank you.
I'd like the opportunity to meet up with some of you guys in your so-called independent tests, and I'd get to the bottom of some of these ridiculously high PT's that some of you are claiming.
Those who truly understand the value of stealth and passive solutions seem to have a far higher success-rate with their vehicles than those who don't or can't.
Hmmm. I wonder why that is? (Actually, I don't).
I don't think that is a fair characterisation, Bob. Anyone who reads my recommendations here knows that I recommend Veil to the majority of all n00bs who ask for advice. There is no way that anyone can reasonably argue that I am against your product. I simply do not recommend it as a stand-alone countermeasure, because it has no consistently proven value as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
While there are certainly people who pull their opinions out of their arse on this forum, I am not one of them. I own four LIDAR guns and test various set-ups every week. I have tested small black cars with no chrome, no front LP, and heavily Veiled headlights, and they always still get punchthrough at over 1000 feet. Have I tested a lot of Veiled cars for this? No. But with a 100 percent failure rate from those I have tested, I don't think it is unreasonable to extrapolate that this isn't a viable solution.
I am curious, what do you consider to be 100% failure rate?
What is that?
The member's of this forum have been duped into believing that if a product doesn't consistently JTG then it suffers from "FAILURE."
That notion is pure hogwash, and perhaps one the main reasons that the very companies that have been banned abroad, are selling (legally or otherwise) in this country with the same notion.
"100% Failure" sounds like something a laser jammer company would say?
Which tends to confirm my suspicion of cognitive bias.
Although given the right circumstance, Veil can occasionally produce the a similar experience as JTG (I call it STG), Veil in its current form was not designed to provide "JTG." We have been entirely honest with our marketing since day one. We haven't tried to pull a fast one on anyone, ever.
In many real-world instances, Veil will provide ample time to slow down. Does this mean every time and every instance for every one, hardly.
However, a user like Vic, I suspect would take issue with your 100% failure rate. He, on the contrary, would say he has had a 100% SUCCESS RATE. That's not me talking, that's him. There are others, too.
To discount them, is to not just be unfair, but not intellectually honest, which I assume you [wouldn't] wish to be.
I would even feel more comfortable when you guys post "negative" things about Veil, that you suggest it's with YOUR vehicles, after actually having documented those experiences.
To extrapolate YOUR individual experiences to represent ALL OTHER potential experiences is an example of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean"]regression to the mean[/ame].
Again, I would welcome coming out and meeting up with some of you guys and examining why in YOUR PARTICULAR CASE(S) you have not having better success with Veil/LS only. I suspect, like with Steve, once we identifified and treated any hot spots, things would certainly get better.
On the other hand, trying to stealth out a "greyhound bus" or large white/silver metallic SUV may have limited success (without the use of a jammer, as well).
Our friends, at Lockeed-Martin certainly understood this with RADAR with the original B1, while they were developing the Have Blue (which later became the F-117).
SS,
I am not so sure, just look at the past threads here and the most vocal critics. Just look at the signatures, see the common theme...
BTW, I would really like to know how many posters/users/supporters of LI (or other laser diode jammers) have received free or heavily discounted product for the clear purposes of being used to promote their products online.
Not so long ago, a certain online member could barely afford a heavily discounted (less than $100) used lammer (which must remain unnamed do to forum rules), but now has a dual or a quad system that runs for more than a $1000. How is this possible?
No need to answer, I already know (it was a rhetorical question). For those that claim to want to keep it real. Let's do so...Keep it real.
Man I missed all of the fireworks. I personally would not dare to think of driving with ANY of my vehicles without the protection of passive counter measures, most importantly Veil G4. I was floored when me and Bob tested Veil G4 on my Civic and the wonders it performed. I challenge anyone to try and get a reading above 900' with just my passive counter measures. Veil does work and complements a jammer perfectly. Ivan from LI could not get a reading with the XR gun above 700'. That was without ANY JAMMERS on (even if my jammers were on none of them jammed that bad arse gun). IMHO EVERYONE should own Veil G4, replica plate, and Laser Shield. PASSIVE counter measures are a MUST IMHO. This is just my two cents. Veil G4 is a remarkable product that belongs in everyones arsenal!
What's with this grand paranoid conspiracy theory? What does LI have to do with any of this? I got no discount on my LI. I did, however, get a discount on my Veil. So what does that mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I am not on the LI forum, and never have been.Quote:
I stay out of your LI forums, please extend me the same courtesy, thank you.
What is your definition of ridiculously high? The vast majority of all LIDAR encounters are under 1000 feet, and in fact closer to 500.Quote:
I'd like the opportunity to meet up with some of you guys in your so-called independent tests, and I'd get to the bottom of some of these ridiculously high PT's that some of you are claiming.
No, those who drive past a cop and assume they didn't get a ticket because they had Veil on their car have a far higher "success" rate than those who actually test their Veil objectively against real LIDAR. The difference is in the scientific method, not in the "faith" you have in your countermeasure.Quote:
Those who truly understand the value of stealth and passive solutions seem to have a far higher success-rate with their vehicles than those who don't or can't.