In car mounting of jammer heads? Stupid and/or ineffective?

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03-09-2007, 08:08 AM
edweird

In car mounting of jammer heads? Stupid and/or ineffective?

This may turn out to be a source of entertainment, although that's not what I planned. :oops:

So I was thinking about how a person with multiple cars but who's budget was limited, might want to be able to move a jammer from car to car. :?:

I was also thinking about someone who travels a lot and drives a rental car, and might want to be able to take their jammer with them. :idea:

I have a Escort ZR3 that's not installed at the moment and some suction cups, so last night while it was dark, I messed around and mounted the 2 front ZR3 jammer heads on the windsheild of one of my cars, and did some quick tests with a jammer tester, and camcorders in Nightshot mode.

http://home.earthlink.net/~svo4sale/DashJam0001.JPG

This is just a conceptual mock up, certainly a better way to mount the heads, so that they could be aimed correctly, and maintain that aim would be required.

Also, any hope of stealth is not possible, without additional work. I did get the heads to detect the laser tester, and send back some pulses which I saw on the camcorders NightShot vision.

http://home.earthlink.net/~svo4sale/DashJam0002.JPG

This morning when I took these pics, I noticed that my winshield was dirty, and I need to do a better job of aiming the heads straight down the road.

I haven't had a chance to test it on the road yet, do you think it's even worth it? Also, I have some concerns about eye safety. It didn't appear like much light was reflected back inside the car when I saw the jamming last night, but that could be an issue, especially if this concept was applied to a diode based jammer.

OK, thoughts, comments, criticism are more than welcome.
03-09-2007, 08:17 AM
spankyaf

Its a great idea and one that hasnt been tested discussed much on the forum.

The issue of having glass/plastic lense in front of the head has some bearing on stealth applications as well.

I seem to recall that a reduction in power of 10% was kicked around at some point. Significant for Blinder but for the LPP??
03-09-2007, 08:33 AM
ELVATO

Well, some LEOs do shoot through a window/windshield, don't they. I know that they get reduced range. Woder how much it would affect a jammer.

I know this would take a bit longer (probably closer to 30 mins), but it's the closest thing to a prem install than anything, but still removeable(This would probably work best with a diode jammer since there are aless heads).

Mount the head up front but using 3M molding tape. Then just run the wires up through the door. You may want to reinfocrce the area of the wire that goes through the door with electrical tape, just to make sure you don't "crimp" it with the door.

For a power source, you could take one of those 12V cig. lighter splitters, and take one of the outlets off. Then just connect the wires, and electrical tape them. The other outlet is for your radar detector.

Mount the other wires(control box, speaker, LED, etc) as best as you can. And you're done :)

I know, I know this setup seems alot like my own ghetto install :P ,but I have taken some steps to make it better.
03-09-2007, 09:27 AM
Serg

Instant PTs everywhere :twisted:
03-09-2007, 10:47 AM
lilmikey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serg

Instant PTs everywhere :twisted:

I'm thinking the same
03-09-2007, 10:56 AM
joker1911

SVT focus? sweet.
03-09-2007, 11:11 AM
Serg

ZR3 and Blinder are weak, they have hell of time jamming the gun when the gun is directly pointed at them or within "18 inches" By placing it behind a windshield and like 5 feet away from target area (leos dont target the windshield) :lol: You will be lucky if it even detects laser :shock:
03-09-2007, 11:23 AM
holein1

That far back you will get instant PT!
03-09-2007, 11:58 AM
edweird

Quote:

Originally Posted by joker1911

SVT focus? sweet.

Yes, that's my knock around car.

Hey, I agree with you Serg that the ZR3 isn't the best jammer.

What do you think the results would be if it were diode based jammer heads in the car. Instant PT still?
03-09-2007, 12:23 PM
jwardell

Bad idea.
They try to aim for your plates or your headlights. Except from large distances, most of the time, the beam never even reaches your windshield.
I had my old detector placed in that position, and only about one out of four times that I was lasered did it alert.
And even if they do sense the beam, they may be too high to be seen by the gun, and furthermore the angled glass will difract and significantly reduce the already weak signal of the led jammer.

Think out of the box for mounting, there must be some way to get them in your grills to make them easily removed. Perhaps make your own wiring for each car, and shorten their wires so you can easily plug them into each. It's not impossible.

And props to your SVTF, from my old Focus days. :)
03-09-2007, 12:28 PM
Serg

Quote:

What do you think the results would be if it were diode based jammer heads in the car. Instant PT still?

If they were in the same locations, same results :!: instant PTs :x Heads are far away from targeted area.
03-09-2007, 02:35 PM
sk911

Re: In car mounting of jammer heads? Stupid and/or ineffect

Quote:

Originally Posted by edweird

I have a Escort ZR3 that's not installed at the moment and some suction cups, so last night while it was dark, I messed around and mounted the 2 front ZR3 jammer heads on the windsheild of one of my cars, and did some quick tests with a jammer tester, and camcorders in Nightshot mode....

...I did get the heads to detect the laser tester, and send back some pulses which I saw on the camcorders NightShot vision..

This is slightly off topic....but....if camcorders can see the jammers working wouldn't the cops also be able to see the jammers working (of course using night vision or something)?
03-09-2007, 03:57 PM
ELVATO

Re: In car mounting of jammer heads? Stupid and/or ineffect

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk911

Quote:

Originally Posted by edweird

I have a Escort ZR3 that's not installed at the moment and some suction cups, so last night while it was dark, I messed around and mounted the 2 front ZR3 jammer heads on the windsheild of one of my cars, and did some quick tests with a jammer tester, and camcorders in Nightshot mode....

...I did get the heads to detect the laser tester, and send back some pulses which I saw on the camcorders NightShot vision..

This is slightly off topic....but....if camcorders can see the jammers working wouldn't the cops also be able to see the jammers working (of course using night vision or something)?

Technically, yes. But if they were to use it at night, I'm pretty sure your headlights would be much brighter, therefore not letting them see the jammer going off.
03-10-2007, 10:19 PM
iolinux333

I wouldn't want to try that with laser diodes, too easy to blow out the retina permenantly!
03-11-2007, 07:22 AM
ELVATO

Quote:

Originally Posted by iolinux333

I wouldn't want to try that with laser diodes, too easy to blow out the retina permenantly!

The AL/LPP diodes are nothing compared to the brightness of the Lidateks. Those things are like a second pair of headlights :shock:
03-12-2007, 07:32 PM
crazyVOLVOrob

Jammer heads don't work behind windshields cause the glass is designed to keep out IR light...

You best bet is to use Double sided tape and a Speed Cheetah system if available for your car....Installing jammers on GOL worst case took 10minutes using the prescribed set-up
03-13-2007, 08:35 AM
Suf Daddy

Ineffective:

The IR pulses will be lighting up (diffusing into the glass) an area behind the spot most LEO's target.

IMHO this won't be effective at all.

-Suf Daddy
03-13-2007, 07:17 PM
Eloi

If you run a blinder + dont mind not receiving sound/led alert .

You can plug directly any blinder head directly to 12 volts , the head works independantly , the control box only distribute the alert , it does not compute any signal to the head.

But you will have to cut the wiring to denude the black - / red + , then get the voltage via some wire inside the motor compartment . This way = no wire passing the firewall , no control box . Even without visual/sound alert , you will see the Leo in time to close the blinder if you choose a wire that can be closed from inside the cabin , like air conditionning .
03-23-2007, 08:05 PM
below_the_radar

Re: In car mounting of jammer heads? Stupid and/or ineffect

Quote:

Originally Posted by edweird

This may turn out to be a source of entertainment, although that's not what I planned. :oops:

So I was thinking about how a person with multiple cars but who's budget was limited, might want to be able to move a jammer from car to car. :?:

I was also thinking about someone who travels a lot and drives a rental car, and might want to be able to take their jammer with them. :idea:

I have a Escort ZR3 that's not installed at the moment and some suction cups, so last night while it was dark, I messed around and mounted the 2 front ZR3 jammer heads on the windsheild of one of my cars, and did some quick tests with a jammer tester, and camcorders in Nightshot mode.

This is just a conceptual mock up, certainly a better way to mount the heads, so that they could be aimed correctly, and maintain that aim would be required.

Also, any hope of stealth is not possible, without additional work. I did get the heads to detect the laser tester, and send back some pulses which I saw on the camcorders NightShot vision.

This morning when I took these pics, I noticed that my winshield was dirty, and I need to do a better job of aiming the heads straight down the road.

I haven't had a chance to test it on the road yet, do you think it's even worth it? Also, I have some concerns about eye safety. It didn't appear like much light was reflected back inside the car when I saw the jamming last night, but that could be an issue, especially if this concept was applied to a diode based jammer.

OK, thoughts, comments, criticism are more than welcome.

Edweird, When you did your tests did you notice with your camcorder that the ZR3 does not fire all heads at once? it only fires the head that currently was hit. This in my opinion should be changed by Escort, so as to fire all heads at once when it detects laser. The field of view on the officers LIDAR's receiving end is large, so firing all heads at once will be additive to the overall jamming ability. Also keep in mind that there is a Up and a Down side to the front laser heads. Escort does not document this very well and it will affect the ability to jam from longer distances, or from an officer on a overpass above.

My only concern with the inside mount behind the windshield would be with having the ZR3 sensors mounted that high, that it might miss an initial laser hit at close range to your front plate area. Other than that, it's a great idea. Keeps the road debris, car wash wax, and water out of the ZR3's sensors, as that contamination would most likely add more diffusion over time than operating through the windshield glass alone would.

Note: Read your latest update Edweird. Post an update if your ZR3 does activate all heads when it receives a LIDAR hit, rather than what mine does, which only activates the head that was hit.
03-23-2007, 08:51 PM
edweird

I thought I did a test with one front head being hit, and the other in a spot where it couldn't have possibly seen the laser tester, and got both firing at once. Maybe I dreamed it?

I'm going to do some tests with a baseline, jammer off, and then with it on and the heads inside the car, now that I got a laser gun to test with. I'm not expecting anything other than "punch through city".
03-23-2007, 10:40 PM
ELVATO

Quote:

Originally Posted by edweird

I thought I did a test with one front head being hit, and the other in a spot where it couldn't have possibly seen the laser tester, and got both firing at once. Maybe I dreamed it?

I'm going to do some tests with a baseline, jammer off, and then with it on and the heads inside the car, now that I got a laser gun to test with. I'm not expecting anything other than "punch through city".

Hmm..a laser gun you say. Daytona isn't that far away from here :lol:
03-24-2007, 12:43 AM
noorudeenshakur

This made me laugh really hard for a few seconds and grin for a few more.

Thanks I needed that :)

Honestly though.......its a bad idea .....on so many levels.

Dont do it. :) :) :)
03-24-2007, 10:34 AM
nomad

Funnily enough, I was thinking about this but from a different viewpoint.

Yes, it is a bad idea, but I was thinking about it more from a rear laser hit situation. The only thing I came up with was that, it would be nice to if diode jammers had remote laser detectors that you could could connect to the jammer head.

That way, you could have small discrete detectors positioned around the vehicle, sort of like a spiders web (top of windscreen, rear window, number plate etc) that fired the jammer when they received a hit or scatter.

Just a thought.
03-24-2007, 02:14 PM
below_the_radar

Inside view of front ZR3 assembly showing led placement.

Inside view of the ZR3 front assembly with the metal shield removed over the three receiver diodes. The other eight diodes are the emitters.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2213/imgp0323ms1.jpg
03-24-2007, 04:19 PM
noorudeenshakur

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomad

Funnily enough, I was thinking about this but from a different viewpoint.

Yes, it is a bad idea, but I was thinking about it more from a rear laser hit situation. The only thing I came up with was that, it would be nice to if diode jammers had remote laser detectors that you could could connect to the jammer head.

That way, you could have small discrete detectors positioned around the vehicle, sort of like a spiders web (top of windscreen, rear window, number plate etc) that fired the jammer when they received a hit or scatter.

Just a thought.

That would be the ultimate. I would love to see a system like that. Unfortunatly it probably wont happen for awhile since they have invested so much in R&R of the current system and untill people stop buying them there really wont be a need for them to change they way things work...Maybe a new contended to the jammer scene will take over the market with a steath system like this. There is lots of room for competition here.
04-07-2007, 04:39 AM
EastGermanOlympicJudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyVOLVOrob

Jammer heads don't work behind windshields cause the glass is designed to keep out IR light...

Keeping it real, are you? What the hell kind of baloney is this? If windshields somehow magically keep out IR light, why does my V1 work so well behind my windshield detecting laser?

This is the part where you make something up about how they only block IR going out of the car, or something.
04-07-2007, 08:56 AM
jimbonzzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastGermanOlympicJudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyVOLVOrob

Jammer heads don't work behind windshields cause the glass is designed to keep out IR light...

Keeping it real, are you? What the hell kind of baloney is this? If windshields somehow magically keep out IR light, why does my V1 work so well behind my windshield detecting laser?

This is the part where you make something up about how they only block IR going out of the car, or something.

CVR isn't simply spewing baloney. I posed this exact question to the manufacturer of a diode jammer, and the windshield's IR coating is the explanation he gave me as to why an in-cabin jammer is not practical.

An in-cabin jammer would be very popular, and there has to be a reason why nobody has attempted it yet.

Sure, the windshield doesn't block ALL IR, but evidently enough to pose a problem. Laser gun manuals cite the IR coating as a reason when recommending against targeting through the windshield.
04-13-2007, 07:04 PM
edweird

My in car experiment got tested today. :idea:

Elvato shot my LTI 20-20 at my car and the jammer heads mounted to the windshield detected and began jamming(shifting, what ever :roll: ) at the same time as the V1 detected laser.

He said it was a challenge for him to hold the gun steady(his first time using a lidar gun), and a lot of E01 and E03's resulted, even on the baseline run that had no jamming.

So while I don't think are any results for jamming(or not jamming), I will say that laser detection for the ZR3 heads when mounted on the windshield seemed to equal that of the V1 in our short test.