LEO StandBy mode....

I know people say that the current crop of guns do not have a standby mode but I have to differ. On Long Island the Suffolk County LEO most definitely have either a standby mode, or their guns leak a LOT because when I see one with a fish my Valentine (or my RX65 for that matter) acts just like the gun is in standby.
IOW no beeps till getting real close to the LEO and never full alert.

Mostly ka, k and in Suffolk County on 495 at least one X band car out East from 64-70 or so. Don't turn off X band if going out East.
Nassau is all Ka and Laser especially between 46 and 43 where the laser boys hang out in the woods on the Westbound side.

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Originally Posted by steve+stang2003

IOW no beeps till getting real close to the LEO and never full alert.

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To me this sounds like your V1 is out of tune, you never get full alerts?

What Rev is your V1? When is the last time it was serviced?

You may have a metallic aftermarket tint too...

Sometimes cops will lay down their radar gun on a chair or angle the antenna towards the dash, in both cases there will be very little detectable leakage to a passing radar detector, particularly if it's K/Ka.

But at any rate, if all encounters seem like this your V1 might have a tuning problem.

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Originally Posted by steve+stang2003

I know people say that the current crop of guns do not have a standby mode but I have to differ. On Long Island the Suffolk County LEO most definitely have either a standby mode, or their guns leak a LOT because when I see one with a fish my Valentine (or my RX65 for that matter) acts just like the gun is in standby.
IOW no beeps till getting real close to the LEO and never full alert.

Mostly ka, k and in Suffolk County on 495 at least one X band car out East from 64-70 or so. Don't turn off X band if going out East.
Nassau is all Ka and Laser especially between 46 and 43 where the laser boys hang out in the woods on the Westbound side.

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There's no radar gun I know of that leaks. It's either on or its off.

It sounds like you're coming up from behind on a cop with a customer. Typically the radar gun is pointed out the front of the cop car, so you're detection range may be short, and it may ramp up very quickly.

J/

As you can see above, there are a tone of variables that can be causing what your experiencing, but what it mostly likely isnt: a 'leaky' radar unit.

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Originally Posted by AirMoore

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Originally Posted by steve+stang2003

IOW no beeps till getting real close to the LEO and never full alert.

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To me this sounds like your V1 is out of tune, you never get full alerts?

What Rev is your V1? When is the last time it was serviced?

You may have a metallic aftermarket tint too...

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Nope.
V1 just came back from Valentine for a fix.
RX-65 does the same thing.

Ok, then it's either a metallic windshield or the antenna-down position of the gun as mentioned above.

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Originally Posted by jdong

Sometimes cops will lay down their radar gun on a chair or angle the antenna towards the dash, in both cases there will be very little detectable leakage to a passing radar detector, particularly if it's K/Ka.

But at any rate, if all encounters seem like this your V1 might have a tuning problem.

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No no no no.....
You guys are missing the point.

Not ALL encounters are like this.
The V1 is latest level and working fine.
RX-65 does the same thing.

It doesn't happen ALL THE TIME, just some times and always when LEO has a fish.

The gun on the seat pointing down makes sense.

Radar Roy, who runs this site and is a retired cop, has said before in a forum post that he often left his radar gun in this fashion while "servicing a customer". So, I wouldn't be surprised if this were a common practice. And yeah, a low-powered high-frequency directional transmitter being behind the frame of a car would make it extremely difficult to detect; you should appreciate that the V1 can find it at all :)

See, reading your post made it seem like ALL the encounters did this... look at the BOLD part of my response.


Yeah, the radar unit is probably on the seat... or the signal is being blocked by the governments ATM (ticketed driver).

I know exactly what steve is talking about as I have always had this as well, and we are not talking about a gun laying on the seat.
These are dash and rear deck mounted, weak when passing never going into a full tone or even getting excited at all.
My unit is in tune as well, according to Mike the tech it is always at spec.
Don't think it is windshields as it does it in every vehicle, always has, this is not new.

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Originally Posted by jdong

Radar Roy, who runs this site and is a retired cop, has said before in a forum post that he often left his radar gun in this fashion while "servicing a customer". So, I wouldn't be surprised if this were a common practice. And yeah, a low-powered high-frequency directional transmitter being behind the frame of a car would make it extremely difficult to detect; you should appreciate that the V1 can find it at all :)

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Yea.
The gun pointing down is probably the answer to it all however I see cars with window mounted units that seem to do the same thing.
The RX65 picks it up as well BTW.
It just doesn't let me know what direction :)

Understand, I drive A LOT OF MILES each year and have been using detectors since the original Escort and even prior to that with the Fox..
I have a lot of experience with this stuff and something tells me there is a standby mode, at least for the guns where I live.

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Originally Posted by V1 Dave

I know exactly what steve is talking about as I have always had this as well, and we are not talking about a gun laying on the seat.
These are dash and rear deck mounted, weak when passing never going into a full tone or even getting excited at all.
My unit is in tune as well, according to Mike the tech it is always at spec.

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Hmmm......




BUT now that I think about it V1Dave and 2003:


Yesterday I had my Bel V895 (Which has a crap ramp-up) but normally is rather effective at telling real LEO's apart from normal junk sources...

Meaning that: When a regular source of 'junk' is encountered its always at 2, It very rarely, if ever, goes above a 2-strength for a junk source, so I know 3 or above is a LEO...

Well yesterday I followed a NYST into a parking lot of a Deli, because I was getting very little range. I found that even when parked directly across from her front antenna (the only antenna firing) I would only recieve a max of 4bars, most of the time it was at 3... I reset the V895 infront of her and it fired all the way up to full Ka, and then back down to 3.


I was confused to say the least, so I got out and went over to the SUV and looked... just infront of the antenna (though not clearly attached) there was a little semi-transparent plastic looking shield infront of the antenna. I couldnt get a great look since the Deli has all glass windows and the LEO was sitting at the table watching me check out her cruiser.


But this just happened to me now that I think of it... weird.


Try reseting your V1 next time this happens.

Prof Jim could give a more definitive answer on this, but I'm quite sure there's no such thing as a low-power "leaking" standby mode for modern radar guns.

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Originally Posted by jdong

Prof Jim could give a more definitive answer on this, but I'm quite sure there's no such thing as a low-power "leaking" standby mode for modern radar guns.

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I don't think so either, but I did have the aforementioned odd occurance.

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Originally Posted by jdong

Prof Jim could give a more definitive answer on this, but I'm quite sure there's no such thing as a low-power "leaking" standby mode for modern radar guns.

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Well I'm *asking* not pretending I know, but I can tell you that something is fishy and it *appears* that some kind of low power mode is an option.

IOW, LEO gets his fish, locks the gun, pulls the fish over and writes his ticket.
While he is writing the ticket, NOT ALWAYS, BUT SOMETIMES, the V1 or RX65, take your pick, reacts like the gun is in standby or on low power or something because an almost full alert on either detector, multiple cars, does not sound till real close and in fact rarely goes full alert. ALMOST full alert and maybe if the car is on the same side of the highway it might go full alert, but the point is it does NOT react like a typical LEO speed trap.
IOW LEO waiting for a fish.

Could this be the before mentioned low power radar antenna mounted below the LEO's car that measures the LEO's vehicle speed for use with moving radar calculations?

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Could this be the before mentioned low power radar antenna mounted below the LEO's car that measures the LEO's vehicle speed for use with moving radar calculations?

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Apparently that's an escort propagated myth too, and there's only one esoteric gun that does this.

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Originally Posted by jdong

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Could this be the before mentioned low power radar antenna mounted below the LEO's car that measures the LEO's vehicle speed for use with moving radar calculations?

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Apparently that's an escort propagated myth too, and there's only one esoteric gun that does this.

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Cool. Then how does the radar unit know the LEO's speed when in moving mode?

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Cool. Then how does the radar unit know the LEO's speed when in moving mode?

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I'm speaking beyond my scope of knowledge, but I believe it listens for multiple doppler shifted signals, the strongest of which is the target's speed and some other signal mixed in there represents the patrolcar's speed?

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Originally Posted by jdong

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Cool. Then how does the radar unit know the LEO's speed when in moving mode?

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I'm speaking beyond my scope of knowledge, but I believe it listens for multiple doppler shifted signals, the strongest of which is the target's speed and some other signal mixed in there represents the patrolcar's speed?

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The professer is probably sleeping, but I'm sure he will have a perfect, easy to understand, amazingly informative answer to this question in the morning.

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Originally Posted by jdong

I'm speaking beyond my scope of knowledge, but I believe it listens for multiple doppler shifted signals, the strongest of which is the target's speed and some other signal mixed in there represents the patrolcar's speed?

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I'm not the professor, just a radar geek who knows less than him, but I'll try and answer the question the best I can until he happens to come across this thread...

Actually, I think how most guns work is they look for multiple doppler returns. The "lower" speed return is the patrol car and the "higher" speed is the target + patrol speed. The gun subtracts the patrol speed from the target speed to get the actual target speed.

Newer guns with "same-lane moving mode" use a more sophisticated algorithm, or simply reverse the roles of the two doppler signals (higher speed return = patrol, lower = target).

Some guns can be electrically connected to the patrol's speedometer, but this is just used for verification that the correct doppler return is used for the patrol speed.

As for weaker than normal alerts during traffic stops, this is caused by either (a) a handheld gun being left on and sitting on the patrol car's seat/floor, or (b) a dash-mounted gun that is no longer optimally aimed down the roadway since the patrol car moved in order to pull over its victim. Also, one may often come up to one of these cars in the same direction as the radar is aimed (e.g. forward facing antenna, coming up on rear of cruiser), so the signal will be weak and then get stronger after passing the cruiser.

Another variation on (b) is if the cruiser was parked perpendicular to traffic while clocking (with the dash-mounted antenna aimed out the side window), then the LEO pulls someone over so the cruiser is now parallel to traffic, but the antenna is now perpendicular, that can cause a weak reading until you're just passing the cruiser.

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Could this be the before mentioned low power radar antenna mounted below the LEO's car that measures the LEO's vehicle speed for use with moving radar calculations?

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There has never been a low power antenna used strictly for patrol speed determination.

Kustom did build one dash mount radar, the KR-11, in the late 70s to early 80s that would transmit short bursts at random intervals (1/4 - 1/2 second, per the patent I came across) while in standby/hold, moving mode only, to monitor the patrol speed of the vehicle. It would not display this speed, but rather refreshed the value in its CPU each time until the radar was turned on, at which point it would compare that value to the strongest return, which was supposed to speed the time it took for it to determine the patrol speed and consequently the speed of the approaching vehicle. This was all accomplished with one antenna with a single transmitter and receiver, despite some of the rumors/mis-information I've seen floating around this board.

I think MEM-TEK related a few months ago that these bursts were easily detected by some of the better detectors of the day. They are much, much longer than the current POP bursts.

Hand held radar gun, sitting on the seat. I've seen this happen myself.

GTO_04

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Originally Posted by kpatz

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Originally Posted by jdong

I'm speaking beyond my scope of knowledge, but I believe it listens for multiple doppler shifted signals, the strongest of which is the target's speed and some other signal mixed in there represents the patrolcar's speed?

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I'm not the professor, just a radar geek who knows less than him, but I'll try and answer the question the best I can until he happens to come across this thread...

Actually, I think how most guns work is they look for multiple doppler returns. The "lower" speed return is the patrol car and the "higher" speed is the target + patrol speed. The gun subtracts the patrol speed from the target speed to get the actual target speed.

Newer guns with "same-lane moving mode" use a more sophisticated algorithm, or simply reverse the roles of the two doppler signals (higher speed return = patrol, lower = target).

Some guns can be electrically connected to the patrol's speedometer, but this is just used for verification that the correct doppler return is used for the patrol speed.

As for weaker than normal alerts during traffic stops, this is caused by either (a) a handheld gun being left on and sitting on the patrol car's seat/floor, or (b) a dash-mounted gun that is no longer optimally aimed down the roadway since the patrol car moved in order to pull over its victim. Also, one may often come up to one of these cars in the same direction as the radar is aimed (e.g. forward facing antenna, coming up on rear of cruiser), so the signal will be weak and then get stronger after passing the cruiser.

Another variation on (b) is if the cruiser was parked perpendicular to traffic while clocking (with the dash-mounted antenna aimed out the side window), then the LEO pulls someone over so the cruiser is now parallel to traffic, but the antenna is now perpendicular, that can cause a weak reading until you're just passing the cruiser.

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I couldn't have said it any better :)

Sounds like a good answer to me.
Next time it happens I'm going to take note of how the car is positioned etc and report back.
Enjoy!
Steve

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Originally Posted by jimbonzzz

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Originally Posted by kpatz

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Originally Posted by jdong

I'm speaking beyond my scope of knowledge, but I believe it listens for multiple doppler shifted signals, the strongest of which is the target's speed and some other signal mixed in there represents the patrolcar's speed?

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I'm not the professor, just a radar geek who knows less than him, but I'll try and answer the question the best I can until he happens to come across this thread...

Actually, I think how most guns work is they look for multiple doppler returns. The "lower" speed return is the patrol car and the "higher" speed is the target + patrol speed. The gun subtracts the patrol speed from the target speed to get the actual target speed.

Newer guns with "same-lane moving mode" use a more sophisticated algorithm, or simply reverse the roles of the two doppler signals (higher speed return = patrol, lower = target).

Some guns can be electrically connected to the patrol's speedometer, but this is just used for verification that the correct doppler return is used for the patrol speed.

As for weaker than normal alerts during traffic stops, this is caused by either (a) a handheld gun being left on and sitting on the patrol car's seat/floor, or (b) a dash-mounted gun that is no longer optimally aimed down the roadway since the patrol car moved in order to pull over its victim. Also, one may often come up to one of these cars in the same direction as the radar is aimed (e.g. forward facing antenna, coming up on rear of cruiser), so the signal will be weak and then get stronger after passing the cruiser.

Another variation on (b) is if the cruiser was parked perpendicular to traffic while clocking (with the dash-mounted antenna aimed out the side window), then the LEO pulls someone over so the cruiser is now parallel to traffic, but the antenna is now perpendicular, that can cause a weak reading until you're just passing the cruiser.

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I couldn't have said it any better :)

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So, the same radar signal bounces off of fixed objects and is used to determine the LEO's moving speed and bounces off moving objects and is used to determine the target's speed? One radar source, two determined speeds? Interesting.