LI Reliability Issues ?????

Let me start off by saying that my intention for starting this thread is NOT to stir up crap or start a **** slinging free for all.

There seems to be “information” circulating (call it a rumor if you like) that there are issues with the reliability of Laser Interceptor.

What’s confusing to me is the following.

That this “Information” has been repeated by some members that I consider reliable, hence I am inclined to give the information some credibility. The information suggests a substantial failure rate of LI units. (Including new revisions)

The information is being spread via word of mouth (email, PM’s etc), it has been eluded to on other forums but not here. (I’m not referring to The Goons)

Allegedly there are some “senior” members on this forum that are on their 2nd or 3rd set of heads. If this is true, why isn’t it being talked about?

To be fair it is also being made very clear that LI are quick to respond and address these issues, but the warranty does not cover shipping, installation costs, or the PITA factor.

I’m presently sitting on the fence, if the manufacturer of my present counter measure does not address the TS, I will definitely be purchasing a product that does and to me from what I have seen LI is the only choice.

Yet what I am hearing is causing me concern.

Comments from any LI users and of course Cliff will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I'm still on my original, 8.0, heads (both front mounted), from the initial US release of the LI.

While I was not among the very first to purchase the LI, I did make my purchase rather soon after the LI came ashore, and was among those who are, as I would consider, "early adopters" of the system.

So far, my front heads have endured one harsh NE-Ohio winter - and countless spring/summer rainstorms. No issues yet. They're rapidly approaching their anniversary date.

From Ivan's own past postings here, he cited, IIRC, an approx. 70% failure rate of that shipment's heads, due to weathersealing issues that were a production line problem.

From the various posts of trouble/resolution here, as well as from the LI Forum's "Genera" sub-Forum postings by Cliff, to announce, in an open manner, the return of warranty claim heads, in-fulfillment of the same, I believe that figure to be reasonable and accurate.

I've "heard" of, via open-Forum postings here, of two other Forum members who have had more recent heads fail, in an "out of the box" fashion - but to me, that is but a blip in the statistics, and, similarly, is not unreasonable to expect, out of the numbers produced and on-road.

Indeed, if it is true that some "senior" members of these Forums are on their THIRD set of heads, I, too, wonder why this information is not being discussed. :confused:

I do not have a recollection of having had to replace more than one set of Sensors, the older Version 8.0 with the early sealant, for any LI User. There are several with LI's on their many vehicles and those are the only LI Users who have had multiple Warranty Replacement Sensors replaced.

Cliff - C55

Are those with multiple replacements 8.0 heads or some 8.5?

8.0.

Cliff - C55

Also keep in mind im willing to bet allot of the LI's are sold to members of this sight, so the instances of bad things happening are higher here.
Also peoples thresh hold of what a real problem is is different. Someone who has a good understanding of a product and is use to the issues in this industry is less likely to complain about a simple head replacement.

There hasn't been one of these threads in a while!! No failures to report from my heads. My units have been through 3 different laser events as well as >50 private test runs. I've also been hit 10+ times over the summer by locals and staties. Still jams like the best of them. If anyone has newer product failing, they must do more testing than me.

I had an intermittently bad sensor out of the box. As a consumer, if the customer service is as good as was provided to me by Cliff, it tends to have a calming influence. He was very concerned with my problem. He kept me informed every step of the process. He sent me a replacement sensor as soon as he could. No problems since.

I really don't consider that a reliability problem though. Sometimes complex electronics fail out of the box, especially when they've been shipped across the country.

LI is great horn, the CS is great and the quality of the product is amazing as well :thumb2:

Mines coming soon, ahhh, I'm so excited.

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Your item was processed and left our CHAMPAIGN, IL 61821 facility on October 20, 2008

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Any issues, Cliff is helpful and available on the phone even at night.

My LI just got here, have a class I have to go to, no playing until tonight.

Thanks to all those that replied, much appreciated.

My concerns have been put to rest.......................:thumb2:

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Originally Posted by the horn13

Thanks to all those that replied, much appreciated.

My concerns have been put to rest.......................:thumb2:

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Think of this, before when Elvis was the rep, you never know, if you can get a head, control unit or anything. Cliff gives you 2 years, so you will know within a month or a few months if there is a problem.

In nearly a year of owning my LI, mines been trouble free. With Cliff at the helm, your in good hands.

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Originally Posted by REBinc

My LI just got here, have a class I have to go to, no playing until tonight.

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o ur not gonna go to bed tonight :D

Well, I've had my new LI's now for about 3 weeks, and have had no issues.
I have the new 8.5 version and am about to go thru my first winter with them here in NJ. I can assure you that I did alot of reading on this forum before I made my purchase and Cliff did an outstanding job of answering all my questions in PM's, phone convo's, etc. I use my LI's 100% of the time and haven't turned on my Blinders except for a couple of test runs that I did. I'm extremely confident that if something did go wrong, Cliff would not hesitate to jump in. :beer:

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Originally Posted by the horn13

Thanks to all those that replied, much appreciated.

My concerns have been put to rest.......................:thumb2:

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An added comfort is to have a laser jammer tester that is fraction of a cost of a laser gun for testing your head periodically. Very handy and you can test your heads with different pulse rates. IMO, a MUST for LJ user.

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Originally Posted by hockey005

o ur not gonna go to bed tonight :D

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I don't have a garage in Champaign, :(. The LI seems nice, I'll have to go get the cable to connect it to my comp.

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Originally Posted by Azonehits

An added comfort is to have a laser jammer tester that is fraction of a cost of a laser gun for testing your head periodically. Very handy and you can test your heads with different pulse rates. IMO, a MUST for LJ user.

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I will admit that the LI tester is a nice toy to have but it will not tell you everything. It will tell you if the LI is detecting and alerting to certain gun but will not tell you if it is jamming properly. If you look back at CFL#5 I believe it is, you will see that we had a problem with the driver side head of my LI. I was getting P/T at 500-800ft on drv side. It alerted to every gun properly but was not jamming on that side. After Elvato looked at the head with IR camera he believed possibly moisture was in the head. We replaced the head and P/T was cut in half but still remained in the 250ft range. Last time I got together with Cbr and Elvato we tested my LI against the Stalker and was still getting P/T. I'll admit it was short...Like 50ft...But still P/T even after the change in heads and realignment. I also tested with the ProLaser3 one other time since then and P/T was still around 200ft. So to some it up...The tester is nice to have for detection but don't count on it 100% because detection is only 1/2 of the solution.

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Originally Posted by mhardy2288

I will admit that the LI tester is a nice toy to have but it will not tell you everything. It will tell you if the LI is detecting and alerting to certain gun but will not tell you if it is jamming properly. If you look back at CFL#5 I believe it is, you will see that we had a problem with the driver side head of my LI. I was getting P/T at 500-800ft on drv side. It alerted to every gun properly but was not jamming on that side. After Elvato looked at the head with IR camera he believed possibly moisture was in the head. We replaced the head and P/T was cut in half but still remained in the 250ft range. Last time I got together with Cbr and Elvato we tested my LI against the Stalker and was still getting P/T. I'll admit it was short...Like 50ft...But still P/T even after the change in heads and realignment. I also tested with the ProLaser3 one other time since then and P/T was still around 200ft. So to some it up...The tester is nice to have for detection but don't count on it 100% because detection is only 1/2 of the solution.

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Do you think it could be because of the type of vehicle you tested? Possibly needs not just realignment and replacement but also moving the heads closer to your headlights? If I understand correctly, you were using the ford escape which does not have good aerodynamic characteristics. I think the only way to tell is having the same set up with a different unit and ford escape. If you compare your ford escape with the rest of the group, there will be some degree of disadvantage on your part resulting to some PT's.

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Originally Posted by Azonehits

Do you think it could be because of the type of vehicle you tested? Possibly needs not just realignment and replacement but also moving the heads closer to your headlights? If I understand correctly, you were using the ford escape which does not have good aerodynamic characteristics. I think the only way to tell is having the same set up with a different unit and ford escape. If you compare your ford escape with the rest of the group, there will be some degree of disadvantage on your part resulting to some PT's.

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I wouldn't say it was placement because they are in the grill less than 8" from headlights and it was JTG on passenger but not drv side. If it was placement or aerodynamics it would IMHO be the same on both sides..Last time I looked the drv side looked just like the passenger side as far as shape goes...HaHa:D

Also I will correct myself..I said P/T was around 800ft..I just checked and the highest P/T was 571ft..And don't take this as a put down to LI because it isnt.Those were the best results I had to that date after having the PASS for 2 tests. This is only pertaining to the tester comments.

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Originally Posted by mhardy2288

I wouldn't say it was placement because they are in the grill less than 8" from headlights and it was JTG on passenger but not drv side. If it was placement or aerodynamics it would IMHO be the same on both sides..Last time I looked the drv side looked just like the passenger side as far as shape goes...HaHa:D

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:D Still a ford escape.
You know 1-2 inches of placement can make a difference plus drivers side headlights are angle slightly to the right in most vehicles to minimize glare effect towards drivers driving the opposite way. I think sticking on your 8 inch distance does not necessarily mean that's the best placement. You still got to do some trial and error setups. What I meant about aerodynamics is that, it has less reflection say on a honda accord than a non-aerodynamic vehicle like the ford escape and headlight designs are not the same in every vehicle. The fact that you change head and still gets some PT's require more testing and placement trial and error.

Anyway, just keep testing MH 'til you find the best placement. ;)

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Originally Posted by Azonehits

:D Still a ford escape.
You know 1-2 inches of placement can make a difference plus drivers side headlights are angle slightly to the right in most vehicles to minimize glare effect towards drivers driving the opposite way. I think sticking on your 8 inch distance does not necessarily mean that's the best placement. You still got to do some trial and error setups. What I meant about aerodynamics is that, it has less reflection say on a honda accord than a non-aerodynamic vehicle like the ford escape and headlight designs are not the same in every vehicle. The fact that you change head and still gets some PT's require more testing and placement trial and error.

Anyway, just keep testing MH 'til you find the best placement. ;)

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Point taken!

i will talk to "LI-Tester" designers wich is not LI tester but "Speed Lab" product to implement a simple receiver to tester and one green "LED" that will flash when pulses from jammer are received.. :-) so you will know it is RX-ing ad TX-ing... how about that? :-)

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Originally Posted by interceptor

i will talk to "LI-Tester" designers wich is not LI tester but "Speed Lab" product to implement a simple receiver to tester and one green "LED" that will flash when pulses from jammer are received.. :-) so you will know it is RX-ing ad TX-ing... how about that? :-)

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Very nice. I just use my cell phone camera to see if my jammers are firing. I learned that from you Ivan. :D

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Originally Posted by interceptor

i will talk to "LI-Tester" designers wich is not LI tester but "Speed Lab" product to implement a simple receiver to tester and one green "LED" that will flash when pulses from jammer are received.. :-) so you will know it is RX-ing ad TX-ing... how about that? :-)

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That would be awsome!

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Originally Posted by the horn13

The information suggests a substantial failure rate of LI units. (Including new revisions)

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I have recently purchased a LI 7.06 with 8.5 heads.

It's not yet installed and seems to be funcitoning perfectly well on the test bench using the TV remote method on each head.

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Very nice. I just use my cell phone camera to see if my jammers are firing. I learned that from you Ivan. :D

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Awesome bit of info' there djrams80, thanks :)

I have tried to capture them firing with two different canon digital cameras in a dark room and only managed to get a faint image, but the nokia phonecam shows it up really well.

Now I have the utmost confidence with my kitchen table install. ;)






.

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Originally Posted by Azonehits

An added comfort is to have a laser jammer tester that is fraction of a cost of a laser gun for testing your head periodically. Very handy and you can test your heads with different pulse rates. IMO, a MUST for LJ user.

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Already have one......................:cool:

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Originally Posted by mhardy2288

I will admit that the LI tester is a nice toy to have but it will not tell you everything. It will tell you if the LI is detecting and alerting to certain gun but will not tell you if it is jamming properly. ...The tester is nice to have for detection but don't count on it 100% because detection is only 1/2 of the solution.

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^ Exactly.

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Very nice. I just use my cell phone camera to see if my jammers are firing.

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^ And that's very logical, too.

But still, it does not tell you that the outgoing jamming algorithm is a proper match, which, I hope, is what Ivan means to say here:

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Originally Posted by interceptor

i will talk to "LI-Tester" designers wich is not LI tester but "Speed Lab" product to implement a simple receiver to tester and one green "LED" that will flash when pulses from jammer are received.. :-) so you will know it is RX-ing ad TX-ing... how about that? :-)

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^ Ivan, is it cost-feasible to have such a tester that would identify and notify as to the "proper" response output algorithm for each of the threats simulated by the SpeedLab product?

I've got their v1 version, bought through the "group buy" here via the now MIA member jammer84_03, and this would be an awesome evolution of that product!

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Originally Posted by Laser-InterceptorUSA

I do not have a recollection of having had to replace more than one set of Sensors, the older Version 8.0 with the early sealant, for any LI User. There are several with LI's on their many vehicles and those are the only LI Users who have had multiple Warranty Replacement Sensors replaced.

Cliff - C55

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Cliff, I know you are now in the business of """"keeping it all quiet""""". However I will enlighten your readers and potential buyers on the problem as they do exist...I went through 3 sets of sensors and 2 separate sets of CPU's in ten months. I DO KNOW ABOUT THE EXISTING PROBLEMS AND CAN FURNISH TO ANYONE THE FAILURE RATE PER VERSION.... This is why I got out of the LI business and the fact that I am STILL sitting on a box of CPU's various versions that are worthless and cannot be returned because you will not accept my emails.. These are customers discards and have yet to be fully rectified.

I will not, and cannot be a part of this company that does poor business of replemishing bad units and warranty problems.

I don't want to get into the middle of this but this is a public forum it is not for in house disputes. For the record my first sensors suffered from the bad sealant issue which i believe was 200 units. Cliff replaced about 6 months ago and I have not had a problem since.

Mine is working for allmost a year and has survived heavy car crash and has been transplated to new car ... still perfect ...

Anyone can have a bad part come along, it's how well the company takes care of the customer after the sale that matters to me. So far in all my dealings (not that there have been many) with Cliff, he has been excellent. I have not heard anyone here say any different. If you have a problem Cliff will take care of it, of that I am certain.

Cliffs car :

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au...cedes_200d.jpg

I don't think it's able to go fast enough to exceed any speed limit :D
But it's reliable just like Laser Interceptor ;)
It goes on and on and on ....

P.S. NHF :p

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Originally Posted by Elvis

Cliff, I know you are now in the business of """"keeping it all quiet""""". However I will enlighten your readers and potential buyers on the problem as they do exist...I went through 3 sets of sensors and 2 separate sets of CPU's in ten months. I DO KNOW ABOUT THE EXISTING PROBLEMS AND CAN FURNISH TO ANYONE THE FAILURE RATE PER VERSION.... This is why I got out of the LI business and the fact that I am STILL sitting on a box of CPU's various versions that are worthless and cannot be returned because you will not accept my emails.. These are customers discards and have yet to be fully rectified.

I will not, and cannot be a part of this company that does poor business of replemishing bad units and warranty problems.

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More sourness! :( Stop already Elvis. You're only making yourself look bad. If there were still rampant problems with the LI, members of this board would be shouting it from the rooftops. To be honest, it seems that everything turned around soon after you were released of your duties. :dontknow:


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8...rgrapesqx3.jpg

plz del...

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Originally Posted by djrams80

More sourness! :( Stop already Elvis. You're only making yourself look bad. If there were still rampant problems with the LI, members of this board would be shouting it from the rooftops. To be honest, it seems that everything turned around soon after you were released of your duties. :dontknow:

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ouch :popcorn:

elvis -

You well know that I've long been your supporter.

[ And anyone here who doubts that statement's nature can well search the past posts not only here on this forum, but throughout that of the speed-detections countermeasures community at-large, you'll see this to be true. ]

Even after your less-than-cordial split with LI, I've always said, in referencing your time with the company as well as the subsequent fallout, that I saw you as victim of circumstance, and that you had tried, particularly towards the end of your time with them, to make things better.

I've just lost all respect for you, based on your last post, as well as your "website" proclaiming the "legal status" as well as the device failures of the LI.

( REF: http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...39715-wtf.html )

:(

You may have been left holding the short stick, but I think it is fair to say that all of us here have seen a DRAMATIC and DRASTIC turn-around in what LI's representation has been, here in the US, between when you were at the helm of things Stateside, and now, with Cliff in your vacated position.

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Originally Posted by djrams80

More sourness! :( Stop already Elvis. You're only making yourself look bad. If there were still rampant problems with the LI, members of this board would be shouting it from the rooftops. To be honest, it seems that everything turned around soon after you were released of your duties. :dontknow:


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8...rgrapesqx3.jpg

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OMG!!!!!! :eek::eek: Are those "SOUR GRAPES!?!?!?!?!

FYI.... my heads are 3months old and WE BE JAMMIN!