laser(infrared) abosrbing film maybe?

Ok, I was searching on the net for a film that might be able to be applied to the headlight of a vehicle instead of veil. The reason is because veil is hard to apply and from what I can tell does not have a very long life. I found a company that is supposed to make such a film. The company is called CPFilms, I have contacted someone there but I had to leave a message so I don't know if they are still making the film or not.

The patent information is as follows:

PET window film coated with a 6-micron layer containing 30% to 60% by weight infrared-absorbing nanoparticles retains heat while transmitting visible light. CPFilms in Martinsville Va., began producing IR-absorbing films three years ago for car windows in the Far East. It has since extended the technology to its Vista architectural window films with different levels of visible-light transmission. CPFilms' parent company, Solutia, has patents on IR-absorbing layers of lanthanum hexaboride, antimony-tin oxide, and indium-tin oxide. Use of these metals in nanoparticle form is CPFilms' development (U.S. Patent 6663950, 2003). Tel: (276) 627-3000 * CPFilms Inc. World's largest manufacturer of solar control and safety window films for commercial, residential and automotive applications. Precision Coatings on Film

patent number 6663950

I have to try to find this stuff and if I can get my hands on it, it might be an alternative to veil for people who do not want to apply it. From looking at the patent it allows about 70% light output while absorbing at least 35% infreared light. Does anyone know what percentage infrared veil absords?

You are very lucky that you live in states.

Ok, that lady I talked to gave me a call back, and she told me what product line to look at. I'll have to look at it tomorrow and maybe get some( you can get it at local stores). Maybe later in the year alpine or proudNMA and me can do some testing on it if I like how it looks and seems promising.

Also I have found another company that makes the film out of Canada, they report about 85% absorption of infrared at 900nm while having over 70% transmittance of visible light. I shot them and e-mail asking where I can buy it. I'll give them a call tomorrow about seeing if I can get my hands on some if they don't answer my e-mail.

UPDATE:

I just talked to the company out of Canada, they are going to send me a sample of the film for testing. When I get it I can really do some testing and see how effective it is. If it is as good as they say it is, that would be great. Imagine covering your headlights in the stuff and not having to worry about how you brush it on or anything. And it should be much more durable.

It is interesting to me that no one seems interested in the film even though it could potentially be a great passive laser defense.

My biggest concern for fim would be that it seems like it would probably only work in select situations.

1: Headlights without a lot of complex surfaces for the film to form over.

2: Headlights that were in excellent shape or almost new. If your headlights had some surface imperfections like rock chips, air bubbles would get caught underneath and there would be no way to get them out unless you figured out a way to fill the surface first.

My other big concern is the light transmission...even with bright HID's cutting down ~30% of your headlights IMO seems like it could have a pretty noticable impact. I see a lot of people with tinted headlights and tails (just for aesthetics) and it always seems the light output (like following them at night) is very diminished.

But if it was cheap, easy to install and easily removable it wouldn't be a bad deal.

1. Use a heat gun, You could easily from it over the headlights.

2. For weathered lights I would first use the 3m headlight restoration kit, not only would it help with light output but also give you a perfect surface to put the film on.

Looking at the specs again for visible light (400-700nm) it looks light light output varies from 25-30% blockage. Think about car tint, when you get the lightest stuff, you are still blocking at least 50% of the light.

Another idea is had is to apply the film to a set of clear headlight covers. And if it works really good, I can actually get my hands on the dye that they use in the film and manufacture custom light covers for vehicles that can be built to block out just the 904nm laser.

But first off I want to get that sample and test it out.

Ok, one more update, I just got a email back form the Canadian Company. They will ship out the sample. So I will have some information for you guys when I get it. :)

This is very promising! I too have concerns about getting it to form to complex contoured headlight housings, because that is exactly the boat I am in.

It does seem like this would be a potentially better option than Veil, in that it is longer lasting and more protective of the lens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by languy99

It is interesting to me that no one seems interested in the film even though it could potentially be a great passive laser defense.

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It's not a lack of interest on my part so much as "Let's see it in action" and find out what the unforseen minuses are.

Let us know how this turns out! :D This sounds most interesting - and promising!

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lan, my current concern:

HIR , (H)alogen (I)nfra-(R)ed, headlight technology utilizes just that - the wasted heat, in the form of IR, to further increase the output of the bulb above that of conventional halogens.

My question, thus, is two-fold:

(1) Is this IR-film "one-way"

and

(2) If not - i.e. if it will trap heat within the headlamp housing - what the implications to this might be. Take, for example, the C6s, whose headlight housing's aero/protective/cosmetic "overlens" has been known to crack due to heat management issues.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by languy99

From looking at the patent it allows about 70% light output while absorbing at least 35% infreared light. Does anyone know what percentage infrared veil absords?

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The 3m Prestige 70 tint (combined with normal window glass on buildings) passes through 69% of visible light and only 3% of IR energy. And it is readily available:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...tml#post242779

There is a difference between rejection and absorption of the IR light. The 3m film rejects the light, the will actually make it look like a mirror to the laser gun. While the new film I have found actually absorbs the light.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by languy99

There is a difference between rejection and absorption of the IR light. The 3m film rejects the light, the will actually make it look like a mirror to the laser gun. While the new film I have found actually absorbs the light.

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rejection = reflection + absorption

that said, since headlight covers are always slanted, I wouldn't care even if they are mirrored

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ahmadr

...headlight covers are always slanted...

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Not "always", but most of the time. Mustang light covers are as flat as a board. Surprising on a car built for speed.

''There is a difference between rejection and absorption of the IR light. The 3m film rejects the light, the will actually make it look like a mirror to the laser gun. While the new film I have found actually absorbs the light.''

I agree on that , the whole importance is the way the Ir
is eliminated , by absorbtion or rejection , the last
could be a worse cure. The ideal target from laser point of view
is a mirror.

Another point never discuss is the reflection
occuring at the interface air/plexiglass of the lens or film applied.
@ 900 nm the light particles are absorbed if the material
particles size match the light and transform this enrergy
input into heat .Also the chemical stucture will dictate
the reaction to ir : reject/absorb/let pass.

Military has those answers .:cool:

Who remember the 411 experiment/video ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

Not "always", but most of the time. Mustang light covers are as flat as a board. Surprising on a car built for speed.

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Mustangs were built for speed? Someone should've passed that memo on to Ford. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

Not "always", but most of the time. Mustang light covers are as flat as a board. Surprising on a car built for speed.

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That was the first application I was thinking of. A film application would really help those Stangs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eloi

Military has those answers .:cool:

Who remember the 411 experiment/video ?

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^ Why was that user, IIRC, banned? <---- genuine question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ahmadr

rejection = reflection + absorption

that said, since headlight covers are always slanted, I wouldn't care even if they are mirrored

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Actually you wold car if they reject the light, that means to the laser gun it looks like a mirror, perfect for getting your speed. Even with a good jammer (LI) it would still get your speed, even easier than before. The film absorbs the IR light and turns into heat, they even say it is normal for the film to feel warm. Same thing that they do for radar, they turn the microwaves into heat by the special paint they use. Well this film does the same thing for IR.

I wonder how much they would heat up with the headlights on.

Not much, the film if fine to fairly high temps and if you can put your hand on the headlight and hold it for a few seconds your looking at around 150 degrees. I'll have to see what the full specs are when I get the sample and do the testing.

''Why was that user, IIRC, banned? <---- genuine question.''

Mystery ...

the video :[ame="http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4905699432508959091&pr=goog-sl"]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4905699432508959091&pr=goog-sl[/ame]

It was a test of absorbtivity @ 900nm , veil = black stain ,
green = an organic dye .

Hmm... I vaguely remember someone here used a green dye on their headlights. Was it RacerX? I wonder if it was ^that stuff.

Either way, I also remember a warning that pictures of vehicles with green headlights would get deleted. Never found out why...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ELVATO

Hmm... I vaguely remember someone here used a green dye on their headlights. Was it RacerX? I wonder if it was ^that stuff.

Either way, I also remember a warning that pictures of vehicles with green headlights would get deleted. Never found out why...

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Maybe green absorbs infrared??? I wonder if Vermont plates are less reflective than other state plates.

^ In doing some research on the T3 Alpha plate covers I just bought (off eBay - they were *super* cheap, barely $10 for a set of two, including shipping), the originals were "green," also.

[ The ones I got are clear? :confused: ]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ELVATO

Hmm... I vaguely remember someone here used a green dye on their headlights. Was it RacerX? I wonder if it was ^that stuff.

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It's definitely RacerX - I remember him alluding-to/hinting-at this in another post, but I don't know if it's that stuff.....

Quote:

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Either way, I also remember a warning that pictures of vehicles with green headlights would get deleted. Never found out why...

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Yep, I remember that, too.

IIRC, it was some kind of politics, and IIRC, it was also why The VEIL Guy had come to some conflict with various members of this Forum.

That was before I'd gotten really interested in passive protection, though (given the then-available VEIL G2 wasn't aesthetically "acceptable" for me, to put on my own vehicles), so my recall of that was/is hazy, too.

Thanks, Eloi. :)

'' Thanks, Eloi. ''

A lot of thanks Tsi for your support .

There is some nice chemical that will effectively absorb
IR , not so expensive and very effective but a truly tranparent
one ....still to be discovered.:D

The problem is financing personnal research with limited
money , limited equipment . For my own good I do .
For putting on the market a new product : no thanks ,
too much effort , too much incertainty , too much assle
about patents .... I do use jammer but still
believe in ''onion skin protection''

Our soldiers on their gear clothing use a kind of
absorbing coating in the ir , but not available to the public.
Due to the uv they have to re-do their coating periodically.
Stealth is now a science:cool:

Veil Guy is a precursor with his Veil , he opened the door
to domestic use of military ideas.
Thank you Veil Guy.

Hmm. Very interesting. I too am curious about what you discover, LAN.

Ok, i just got the film today and I waited till the tonight to do some testing, from my opinion, it works really well for how clear it is. Of course I will have to do some testing with alpine using real guns sometime soon, maybe after the holidays, but I have a video of how it works with the blinder heads firing and showing how it effects headlight light output.

Viedo:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oBajkZ_dqc"]YouTube - IR Film.wmv[/ame]

That video is very interesting :). I look forward to seeing it against some actual guns.

I just did some tests with the film against my bathroom mirror and using a remote control to see how much it dropped the reflection of the IR, if i went about 3 feet from the mirror you could almost not see the IR reflect anymore while on the side with no film it was still easily visible.

this film looks promising :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by languy99

I just did some tests with the film against my bathroom mirror and using a remote control to see how much it dropped the reflection of the IR, if i went about 3 feet from the mirror you could almost not see the IR reflect anymore while on the side with no film it was still easily visible.

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I want some of that film!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLINDER-GUY

I want some of that film!!!

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wait till some more testing is done.

I applied some film to one of the corner reflectors on the car. The left one in the picture has the film the one on the right does not.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8...0266691pd0.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/9...0270994pj0.jpg


http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8...0278154mm6.jpg


http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/9...0282767uc8.jpg


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j94CRvDMKCo"]YouTube - IR Film 2.wmv[/ame]

WOAH! That is awesome. What did you use to apply the film? This is a game changer any chance i can get a hold of this stuff?:D

FYI: this film is a ***** to bend around contoured surfaces. If I do decide to use it I will have to come up with someway to make it bend. I might have to go to fairly high heat to get it to work with me.

You guys will have to wait for more real world testing to see if this film is even a viable alternative.

EDIT: I got it to look fairly decent (with lots of creases) but I am not a professional tint installer. If I spent more than 3 minutes on it I might have done a better job but I am more interested in it for testing not looks. So if you want to use a film on your lights I highly recommend professional installation, this is not a DIY project.

easy, cheasy test... see how far away your remote works on your TV, then put the film over the sensor on the TV and test again.

I'm mainly interested in using this film to cover my plates. I need all the help I can get there.. :P

just got back form testing the film with alpine, results coming soon.......:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by languy99

just got back form testing the film with alpine, results coming soon.......:p

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Sweet :D

here they are take them for what they are. I am still working on different projects regarding the IR absorbing materials. That is all that I can say for now.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9...4470975vu2.jpg