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Still new to this. Just had my LI dual installed. Big concern is, how quick can I slow down to PSL and shut off Jammer before LEO suspects something. With that in mind, have there been any tests to determine how many seconds on average does it take for a LEO to get a read on you.
thats hard to tell it depends on many variables...Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guy
Every test determines that. That's what we test for. Sometimes you have forever, because he never gets a read on you. Other times, your set-up sucks and you have no time because he gets instant punchthrough. It is entirely dependent on YOUR set-up, and YOUR encounter, not what results other people get.Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guy
sorry, to clarify, if one didn't have a jammer, have there been any tests to show on average, how many seconds it takes to get a reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth StalkerEvery test determines that. That's what we test for. Sometimes you have forever, because he never gets a read on you. Other times, your set-up sucks and you have no time because he gets instant punchthrough. It is entirely dependent on YOUR set-up, and YOUR encounter, not what results other people get.Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guy
Yes. Instantly.
There are alot of factors,your speed,setup,leo's position,weather,etc.
In real time, I'd say the average speed aquisition time is about 1/4 second.
Speed of light = 299,792,458 miles per second.
Divide your distance from the gun (in miles) by the above number.
That's what portion of a nanosecond it takes to get your speed without a jammer.
:lol::lol::lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker
Exactly!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by speed-dreamsthats hard to tell it depends on many variables...Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guy
NOpE!! Not always. I believe instant on radar, once you are in range, plain view, and are the sole object on the road, is closer to instantly than a lidar gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker
Exactly!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcllusb
To re-lock an object you've already clocked, that may be true. But with the first lock, it "can" take some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by djrams80
Lidar doesn't operate like that. It doesn't just calculate and then display, it also evaluates and re-evaluates to ensure that what it is going to display is correct. That takes more time than what anyone may think it takes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker
To the OP, why you want to know anyway? you cannot outbreak Lidar if that's what you're thinking off...
OP is trying to figure out how long he has to slow to PSL and shut off jammers.Quote:
Originally Posted by speed-dreams
It CAN take a little time to get a reading on your car, even with no jammers.
I've heard black corvettes with no Front License Plate take a while to lock on from afar. Maybe someone with a little more knowlege on the subject can throw in their .02..
IMO, if you're being targeted from far away, slow down slowly, but not too slow. If your car is sporty, you can probably shave 20 mph off in a few seconds without much nose dive, which they aren't looking for. I'd say it should never be more than 4 seconds, unless you're on TOP of him (never ever jam all the way to gun...) if you're on top of him, might have to slam and turn off or just let him get the PT :P
I definitely wouldn't slam on brakes and immediately shut off the jammer in your typical encounter. That is suspicious and unsafe.
Yes, was just trying to get an idea how many seconds it typically takes an LEO to get a read on you from the time he starts trying to laser your car. So if its not unusual for them to take 4 or 5 seconds to get a read on you, then there is time to slow down to psl and shut off jammers. Guess reaction time is very crucial while trying not to panic and nose dive into the ashphalt.
No, it is not. Take a nose-dive and have a chance of slowing down in time, or don't take a nose-dive and get pwn3d. Those are your choices. How is there any crucial decision involved here? One gives you a chance. The other gives you none. That's a no-brainer where I come from.
And no, it is not common for it to take 4-5 seconds. It simply does not happen, unless you are using a jammer. Very few cops will target you at long distances (over 700 feet) unless they are on a tripod, shooting straight down the road at you. That's rare. And when they do that, it still takes less than a second to lock your speed.
At engagements under 700 feet (which is the vast majority of all LEO shots), lock will almost always be instantaneous, giving you no time whatsoever to even react, much less gradually slow down. It takes an absolute minimum of two to three seconds for you to even respond to the alert and get your foot halfway over to the brake pedal, under the best of circumstances. Most of the time it will take you much longer. Anything less than 2 seconds is pointless, because without a jammer, they will always get you before then.
It is not unusual for them to take 4-5 secs to get a read on you but it "is" usually quicker when the object they are targeting is the size of your truck. Also you have a very reflective front. My guess is time for the initial lock on the front of your truck will be 1-3 secs. That time will depend on the gun, operator, and the distance. Other factors may come into play also. AFAIK, they use the Laser Atlanta and LTi Ultralyte in your area. Both are capable of locking a speed blindingly fast but the Ultralyte can and is typically significantly slower in doing so. Also it is not unheard of for cops in your area to target out past 2K feet or 610 meters but they may also target in as few as 60 meters.Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guy
It is not likely that you will be able to outbrake laser in that truck without a jammer. I've done so before 5 times successfully in cars. One had a front euro-plate which was reflective, the other had no front plate. I can still get a lock on each car at well over 600 meters quite easily so they are reflective. But my alertness and reflexes saved me in those instances where I have won against laser. Again, I ride motorcycles so I scan the road more frequently and further downroad than the average motorists. My brakes on all of my cars are also in awesome shape with better than average stopping power. All this plays a role in my successfulness. But as I've stated earlier, I've also failed twice. First time was at over 700ft and the second being at 1790ft.
So it's your call. My advice is to use your jammers wisely and kill them once you are @ a safe speed while being targeted. Just be aware of your surroundings because a lot of times, you'll see the cops before they pull that trigger.
Thanks guys. Actually I dont have a truck but a mercedez 230 but still got the chrome grill and big headlamps which dont help. Live in Ontario so dont know if that makes any difference on laser guns they use hear.
Hmm, there's the dilemma. Since he lives in Ontario, if he nose dives, they'll know he's using a detection device, and they might stop him to confiscate it.
If he doesn't shut off the jammers quick enough, they'll know he's jamming them, and stop to confiscate.
Do they use front plates in Ontario? Depending on how steady the lidar gun is, and if they do use plates, they're probably getting readings on cars in under a second if they actually aim for the plate before they pull the trigger.
Also, I'm going to go opposite to some, but I shoot faster with an Ultralyte than with a Laser Atlanta, especially if I can lean on something.
Yeah, too much weight transfer is a bad thing. I still think braking regularly and shutting it down is the best bet. Could care less if it takes an extra 3 secs. I know for a fact that they use tripods regularly during multi-leo speed traps. They coud very well get readings quicker than the avg. leo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ELVATO
Many users have a favorite gun and even after using everything the US has to offer, I still prefer the LA. You leaning against something with that Ultralyte is very important. I'm sure you've tried it freehand with a shoulder stalk or braced against your cheek and can detect a serious difference in acquisition time. Cool regardless, they are both great guns.
If you drive a dark color car, it's not unusual shooting freehand to take 2-3 seconds to get a reading. I have actually not been able to get a reading on black cars with no jammers.
That can't be true??? What gun were you using and how far off-axis were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by category4
PL3 and LA, about 15 degrees off axis.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMothThat can't be true??? What gun were you using and how far off-axis were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by category4
No reading with PL3? :eek: Hmm, must have been the angle. Always thought that gun was a "sure getter."
The angle and the speed. It was not during a test it was shooting cars out on the interstate. Speed was about 80 and I believe it was a small black Mercedes.
The reason I say they did not have jammers was they did not appear to slow at all while I was targeting them. The LA it happens fairly often, especially if the car is running HID's.
Skip to about one minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guysorry, to clarify, if one didn't have a jammer, have there been any tests to show on average, how many seconds it takes to get a reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth StalkerEvery test determines that. That's what we test for. Sometimes you have forever, because he never gets a read on you. Other times, your set-up sucks and you have no time because he gets instant punchthrough. It is entirely dependent on YOUR set-up, and YOUR encounter, not what results other people get.Quote:
Originally Posted by fast guy
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXcQ92ulk6M]YouTube - Blinder M25 and M45 Laser Jammers[/ame]
All these guns are stupid deadly on a tripod and all will acquire speeds as fast as the unit is capable of. In Canada, this may be the case regularly unfortunately. But when hand held, its a total different ball game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay_in_Nashville
Category4, that's extremely hard to believe that the PL3 and LA failed to lock a speed. Also, to have the LA do it often, I gotta wonder if your guns need maintenance. Not saying its impossible though because I understand that other members have also had the same problem.
It does not happen often with the PL3, but does happen with the LA. The LA is new, manufactured in jan 09.
The LA seems to have problems with bright lights or reflections of bright lights.
I also admit I am not the steadiest shot freehand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMothAll these guns are stupid deadly on a tripod and all will acquire speeds as fast as the unit is capable of. In Canada, this may be the case regularly unfortunately. But when hand held, its a total different ball game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay_in_Nashville
Category4, that's extremely hard to believe that the PL3 and LA failed to lock a speed. Also, to have the LA do it often, I gotta wonder if your guns need maintenance. Not saying its impossible though because I understand that other members have also had the same problem.
Maybe it's the "freehandedness"? Cbr's LA doens't have problems with HIDs, OEM or aftermarket. Granted, it did take maybe half a second longer (than the half second it normally takes) when aiming directly into high beams. CM was unaffected.
I think his is a year to a couple months older than yours, but can't remember.
Also, neither of us regularly sit out by traffic to randomly tag traffic, so you are exposed to a lot more "jammerless" cars than I am. But, of the ones I've shot, there hasn't been one I haven't been able to get a reading from.
EDIT 2: Remember that not everyone slows downs and kills (didn't eric have a nifty acronym for it?) their jammers. There's a lot of installs where all the person knows is they're "immune" from police, and they're being shot when the thing starts making noise.
The VEIL Guy also reported this observation (in another conversation that we were having, altogether, on the SpeedTrapHunter Forums).Quote:
Originally Posted by category4
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I really think, as do many of you, that it's dependent on a lot of variable conditions/factors:
- ambient lighting
- ambient weather
- operator skill/knowledge (including both how steady the shot is, as well as his/her "pick" of the initial engagement hardpoint, etc.)
- operator interaction with enforcement device (i.e. how one person may "take" to the ergonomics of any one device can make a tremendous difference in targeting accuracy and speed: why do people spend a lot of money to customize their firearms? ;))
- vehicle characteristics (surface finish/condition, hardpoint profile, lighting profile, etc.)
- interactions between the ambient conditions and vehicle characteristics (i.e. is the sun glinting off the chrome trim, causing a tremendous amount of glare to be fed back to the LIDAR's receiver optics), as well as setup characteristics (did the enforcer stupidly set up so that he's facing the setting/rising sun? is he trying to shoot through vehicle greenhouse glass? rearview mirror "bounce shot?" etc.)
- the characteristics of the device used - remember that one of our members, using a jammer, was interviewed not because the enforcer got an error- or jam-code, but rather because this enforcer, a seasoned veteran, realized that his favorite LIDAR device just wasn't "doing what it usually does," when painting/targeting that member's vehicle - some guns do lock faster than others, and this can even vary with consideration to other factors
- unique device (i.e. "this" LA versus "that" LA; "his" PL3 versus "my" PL3 versus "that guy's" PL3) differences - yes, these things all have to fall within tolerance and be certifiable, but that doesn't mean that there can't be differences to be had between unique devices...remember Mike B's awesome laboratory testing of various unique radar detectors, and that there was a measurable difference of 1, 2, or even 3 dBs sensitivity between different examples of "the same" detector? production variances can make a difference
Can it be "instantaneous?" Or at least within the "1/3 of a second, nominal" figure that the manufacturers like to put out?
I certainly believe that it can - I've seen that it can, countless times, and I think that anyone who even routinely watches hobbyist testing videos can attest to this fact. I have no doubt that it can. And in being on the defensive side of the equation, I like to always assume that is the case.
However, at the same time, it should also be noted that lock can be delayed for upwards of a second, two, three, or even longer - and that it is within the framework of this "possible" window that most of us try to take corrective action, whatever that may be. We've seen this sometimes ourselves, first-hand, as the words of our fellow hobbyists in this thread honestly debate, but even for those of us who do not have access to police LIDAR devices have seen this happen on countless videos made by our fellow enthusiasts, and even by various vested-interest parties.
Who could forget that time when the infamous steagall1000, advertising the Blinder M25 J11, tried locking a dark-colored late-model Dodge/Eagle sedan (with no countermeasures whatsoever) only to have the vehicle fail to return with a valid reading at all. :lol:
No, we should *NOT* count on this window always being there.
But it is not altogether impossible.
Still, again, in being on the defensive, one needs to assume the worst - there is a need to slow as fast as possible, in as reasonable of a manner as possible ( i.e. locked wheels with tires ablaze on asphalt will certainly earn you a ticket :lol: ).
In terms of the OP's concern/circumstances, though, I truly think that ELVATO's tactical analysis brings up some very, very good thinking/debate points:
^ That, and I also think that they use tripods or monopods, sometimes..... I could have sworn I've seen that in various north-of-the-border hobbyist videos. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ELVATO
Indeed, I don't know what to make of that tactical situation. That's a very, very hard one.
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"Front plate" -
I am 99% positive I was targeted (in my wife's FXT) on the front plate this past weekend. "Back-calculating" from the fact that my high-mounted x50 did *not* alert and my usual "one-one thousand, two-one thousand, etc...." counts, initial engagement distance was actually a fairly generous 1000 ft. or so.
I'm almost certain that it was chosen as the favorite targeting spot. Center-mass on her vehicle would have been higher up the beltline, and at that distance, by experience, I know that the x50 should have alerted, given the LIDAR used.
Oh, and no, no worries, I wasn't speeding much, and the LI took care of what little doubt that there could have been. ;)
I've shot enough black cars and had trouble getting a lock on them that my next cat just may be black for that reason. It's a PITA to keep clean but I believe it gives you a second or more to slowdown against laser with the color alone.