I'm not gonna do it but I was wondering.... Or is it only effective on shiny surfaces?
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I'm not gonna do it but I was wondering.... Or is it only effective on shiny surfaces?
maybe but would probably wear off quickly and be not very cost effective
What do you mean by "work"?
If you mean work as an effective countermeasure without a jammer, then no... not at all. There would be a point where your car still reflected enough to get a reading... and that would still be really far away. I think I got distance readings on trees over 1000 feet away when I went to CFL.
I was sort of thinking about a base/clear finish with Veil over the base and clear on top...
I'd never try it because I'm sure it would screw up the bond/curing or something and you'd end up with an epic mess :eek:
Plus it would cost a bunch of $$...
Forget it. Just veil your headlights. Another alternative to consider is getting a car bra.
that not true veil does work even if u do not have a jammer. but eventualy the cop will get a read but not right away.
:bs2: Veil alone will not save you from police laser. Veil only works when used with a jammer. The LEO will get a reading...over 1000ftQuote:
Originally Posted by jrock23
Oh god here we go.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock23
:arg:
It probably would give you a second or two at over 2000 ft an might actually save you once at this distance if your only going over 15 mph or around this but I wouldn't count on this hapenning often.
X2, the test course we use to test my car is about 1400ft long. My car is heavily Veiled, yet laser readings at 1400ft are instantaneous with my jammers turned off.Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyc4:bs2: Veil alone will not save you from police laser. Veil only works when used with a jammer. The LEO will get a reading...over 1000ftQuote:
Originally Posted by jrock23
ya ding-ding got have a jammer.. id get a bra or change out the chrome w plastic or painted parts, i wouldnt paint a whole front end w veil period only headlights. at least rattle can it w fan spray and clear coat, i painted my truck front end black vs. silver at the body shop took the bra off
At 2000 feet, he's hitting the entire front end of your car, so just protecting your headlights is going to do nada.
If you want to seriously stealth the front end of a vehicle, paint it entirely with spray-on bed liner. If you do that, even a ZR4 might save you.
Heh, with the cost of all the Veil, you might as well get another jammer (like a ZR3 or something.) Have more protection that you already have. :)
Plus, if you put clear coat on top, you'd be totally defeating the purpose of the Veil.
+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by ELVATO
VEIL is very good at what it does.
I am a firm believer in not only VEIL, but in the synergy of passive countermeasures, as well as, furthermore, an even bigger, synergistic, effect to be had between active -and- passive countermeasures, used in-compliment.
But coating the entire front of one's car with VEIL.....
I honestly don't know if that'll be cost-effective. :confused:
No, it won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock23
i know it will. The last testing event we went to we did a test on my car with just veil and it did work so i know it works sorry to say that.
did you do a basee run to see where it would pick up your car before veil was appliedQuote:
Originally Posted by jrock23
You better get your watch fixed, jrock. It obviously has no concept of how long five seconds is. And in the typical 500 foot LIDAR encounter, you'll be at the officer before five seconds passes. There is not the slightest chance in Hell that Veil alone will give you even a half a second inside of 1000 feet.
We spend alot of time around here correcting jrock23's incorrect and misleading statements.
B.S.
The only thing misleading, is the suggestion that Veil doesn't provide protection below 1400 or 1000 feet or can provide 5 seconds or so of reaction time in many instances in the real-world.
While I have stated that I don't doubt that some of you have automobiles that make lousy candidates for Veil alone, that doesn't mean EVERY other vehicle also makes a lousy candidate. Those who would extrapolate such individual experiences are the ones that are not being accurate or fair to Veil, which is disappointing considering that lengths some of you go to actually "test" or claim to be factual or knowledgeable.
For every vehicle that has high punch throughs with Veil only, I'd bet that those punch throughs are coming from sources other than those that are actually treated with Veil. Why not put energy into finding out what those sources are, instead of relentlessly trashing Veil, instead.
I know a number of Veil (only) users are having good success in the real-world.
It's unfortunate that some who claim to be otherwise independent and to be keeping it real, are decidedly not when repeatedly bashing my company's product. You guys don't have to like my company's product, or even myself, but, at least, I would appreciate you taking your anti-Veil bias, and keeping it to yourselves. Be happy with your $1000 plus laser jammer systems and please leave my company's $90 solution, alone. Thank you.
Thanks jrock23 (and other), for your continued support, it's appreciated.
It's most unfortunate that you and others who express even a little support for my company's product, have to be subjected to relentless attacks from those who are unable to understand and appreciate the capabilities of Veil in the real-world against real-world speed traps...
Let the personal attacks, begin...:mad:
But that is exactly the point, Bob. Officers don't shoot your Veil. They shoot your car. It's just disingenuous to claim that Veil alone has a chance of giving you significant time against LIDAR when the Veil only coats about 5 percent of the entire front end. That's like claiming you have a good chance of surviving a firefight if you wear a helmet, but no other body armour. The chances are so slim that they simply aren't measurable.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
This isn't a detraction from Veil at all. It's good at what it does. I'm a big supporter, and always will be. But people are being mislead into believing that simply Veiling their headlights is some kind of magic force field, and it isn't.
Exactly correct! If someone speeds into laser traps with just Veil and a RD, they're gonna get PWN3D! Period. There is even a decent chance that they'd get tagged and never get a laser alert at all from their RD. If they don't get pulled over, it's probably only because they weren't going fast enough. Trying to suggest this combination as a viable alternative to a laser jammer is being overly optomistic, at best. There is no $90 laser jammer. From my testing, I am convinced that Veil makes a fantastic addition to a laser jammer, but is not usable an a jammer alternative. That's what I've seen in my testing, so that's what I report.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth StalkerBut that is exactly the point, Bob. Officers don't shoot your Veil. They shoot your car. It's just disingenuous to claim that Veil alone has a chance of giving you significant time against LIDAR when the Veil only coats about 5 percent of the entire front end. That's like claiming you have a good chance of surviving a firefight if you wear a helmet, but no other body armour. The chances are so slim that they simply aren't measurable.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
That's BS! Pure and simple. Tell that to guys like Victor who has had at least five successful encounters with Veil alone!
You can believe what you want to believe, but YOU are NOT being fair or even intellectually honest (not that you may care).Those that refuse to accept these actual experiences in the real-world and others as happening as explained, suggests [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias"]cognitive bias[/ame], to say the least, along with potentially [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attributional_bias"]attribution bias[/ame], and of course, a huge amount of arrogance.
The most reflective parts of the vehicle are the most reflective parts by far, the headlights, the fog-lights, and the license plate areas. That 5% what you say is responsible for nearly 95% of what the police lasers can read. I've been involved in the field of stealth for more than half of many of your ages! Please don't presume to lecture me on the nature of stealth and punch-throughs. We were the first to document and video (with staton), long-distance punch throughs, nearly five years ago. Long before many of you even heard of RD.NET or even what is LIDAR.
Particularly against the LZ1, LTI, LA Stealth guns, Veil alone (given the right vehicle) can and does do wonders.
Plenty of posters who have posted such positive experiences of the YEARS since this forum was created. Guys like Sethy, Happya$$, Vic, and others who have had GREAT success with Veil ALONE.
I don't understand why so many users of laser jammers (primarily, it appears, to be LI users) are so against my company's product.
From what I understand from the GoL, Veil alone performed extremely well against the Traffipatrol when the LI crew discounted any possibility of Veil effectiveness prior to the runs of Veil only. Does this dislike of the product come from the top-down of the LI cabal? Not that it really matters. BTW, I am curious, how many of the LI crew here actually received free product or heavily discounted product? I already know of a couple. I am just curious, do others have the moral clarity to actually indicate this in their signatures? Also how many replacement heads? Anyone really care to share this, also in their signatures?
I am just really getting sick and tired of all the negativity that has festered on this forum for more than a year now. Sick and tired of it. I stay out of your LI forums, please extend me the same courtesy, thank you.
I'd like the opportunity to meet up with some of you guys in your so-called independent tests, and I'd get to the bottom of some of these ridiculously high PT's that some of you are claiming.
Those who truly understand the value of stealth and passive solutions seem to have a far higher success-rate with their vehicles than those who don't or can't.
Hmmm. I wonder why that is? (Actually, I don't).
I don't think that is a fair characterisation, Bob. Anyone who reads my recommendations here knows that I recommend Veil to the majority of all n00bs who ask for advice. There is no way that anyone can reasonably argue that I am against your product. I simply do not recommend it as a stand-alone countermeasure, because it has no consistently proven value as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
While there are certainly people who pull their opinions out of their arse on this forum, I am not one of them. I own four LIDAR guns and test various set-ups every week. I have tested small black cars with no chrome, no front LP, and heavily Veiled headlights, and they always still get punchthrough at over 1000 feet. Have I tested a lot of Veiled cars for this? No. But with a 100 percent failure rate from those I have tested, I don't think it is unreasonable to extrapolate that this isn't a viable solution.
I am curious, what do you consider to be 100% failure rate?
What is that?
The member's of this forum have been duped into believing that if a product doesn't consistently JTG then it suffers from "FAILURE."
That notion is pure hogwash, and perhaps one the main reasons that the very companies that have been banned abroad, are selling (legally or otherwise) in this country with the same notion.
"100% Failure" sounds like something a laser jammer company would say?
Which tends to confirm my suspicion of cognitive bias.
Although given the right circumstance, Veil can occasionally produce the a similar experience as JTG (I call it STG), Veil in its current form was not designed to provide "JTG." We have been entirely honest with our marketing since day one. We haven't tried to pull a fast one on anyone, ever.
In many real-world instances, Veil will provide ample time to slow down. Does this mean every time and every instance for every one, hardly.
However, a user like Vic, I suspect would take issue with your 100% failure rate. He, on the contrary, would say he has had a 100% SUCCESS RATE. That's not me talking, that's him. There are others, too.
To discount them, is to not just be unfair, but not intellectually honest, which I assume you [wouldn't] wish to be.
I would even feel more comfortable when you guys post "negative" things about Veil, that you suggest it's with YOUR vehicles, after actually having documented those experiences.
To extrapolate YOUR individual experiences to represent ALL OTHER potential experiences is an example of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean"]regression to the mean[/ame].
Again, I would welcome coming out and meeting up with some of you guys and examining why in YOUR PARTICULAR CASE(S) you have not having better success with Veil/LS only. I suspect, like with Steve, once we identifified and treated any hot spots, things would certainly get better.
On the other hand, trying to stealth out a "greyhound bus" or large white/silver metallic SUV may have limited success (without the use of a jammer, as well).
Our friends, at Lockeed-Martin certainly understood this with RADAR with the original B1, while they were developing the Have Blue (which later became the F-117).
SS,
I am not so sure, just look at the past threads here and the most vocal critics. Just look at the signatures, see the common theme...
BTW, I would really like to know how many posters/users/supporters of LI (or other laser diode jammers) have received free or heavily discounted product for the clear purposes of being used to promote their products online.
Not so long ago, a certain online member could barely afford a heavily discounted (less than $100) used lammer (which must remain unnamed do to forum rules), but now has a dual or a quad system that runs for more than a $1000. How is this possible?
No need to answer, I already know (it was a rhetorical question). For those that claim to want to keep it real. Let's do so...Keep it real.
Man I missed all of the fireworks. I personally would not dare to think of driving with ANY of my vehicles without the protection of passive counter measures, most importantly Veil G4. I was floored when me and Bob tested Veil G4 on my Civic and the wonders it performed. I challenge anyone to try and get a reading above 900' with just my passive counter measures. Veil does work and complements a jammer perfectly. Ivan from LI could not get a reading with the XR gun above 700'. That was without ANY JAMMERS on (even if my jammers were on none of them jammed that bad arse gun). IMHO EVERYONE should own Veil G4, replica plate, and Laser Shield. PASSIVE counter measures are a MUST IMHO. This is just my two cents. Veil G4 is a remarkable product that belongs in everyones arsenal!
What's with this grand paranoid conspiracy theory? What does LI have to do with any of this? I got no discount on my LI. I did, however, get a discount on my Veil. So what does that mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I am not on the LI forum, and never have been.Quote:
I stay out of your LI forums, please extend me the same courtesy, thank you.
What is your definition of ridiculously high? The vast majority of all LIDAR encounters are under 1000 feet, and in fact closer to 500.Quote:
I'd like the opportunity to meet up with some of you guys in your so-called independent tests, and I'd get to the bottom of some of these ridiculously high PT's that some of you are claiming.
No, those who drive past a cop and assume they didn't get a ticket because they had Veil on their car have a far higher "success" rate than those who actually test their Veil objectively against real LIDAR. The difference is in the scientific method, not in the "faith" you have in your countermeasure.Quote:
Those who truly understand the value of stealth and passive solutions seem to have a far higher success-rate with their vehicles than those who don't or can't.
At 5000 feet, Veil works wonders. (I am being facetious, of course).
I suspect certain users of Veil would disagree which absurd claims.
Plenty of users have had great and repeated success with Veil only at distances well under 1000 feet.
Unfortunately some have felt pressured by our detractors to not share their experiences, for "fear" of being ridiculed.
What happened to this forum over the years? There was a time we all celebrated each others' successes, instead of ridiculing them...sad, so sad.
The Veil Guy, would you drive through a laser trap at 20 over with only Veil and a RD protecting your car?
LOL! Here's Victor's car! This is not normal, so trying to extrapolate this to the rest of the normal car world is disingenuous.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...DSCN1574-1.jpg
Second, happya$$'s car is always dirty, has its emblem removed, is small, and is ugly as hell on top of all that. Basically, he's gone out of his way to make it as stealth as possible and couldn't care less how it looks. That's also not normal. Using that ugly ass Civic as an example is also disingenuous.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7343/photo5axm3.jpg
Stealth Stalker,
Ok, I am going to try to communicate with you without resorting to hyperbole on this post, to make my point.
I will acknowledge the value of some of the controlled tests that you and other perform. They do have their place and I am really am not discounting them.
That being said, I think it is also important to realize that these tests may not be indicative of how any of these countermeasures will actually perform in the real-world.
Examples:
Recent real-world driving/review of the new Whistler SE models, in many instances performed at around the same time of my high-end remotes. Did this make them equals. Hardly. The STiR and the 9500ci are awesome. Its just in the real-world these differences (which can be huge at times) may not always be observable...meaning that in many instances the SE's can also provide terrific utility.
The same goes for countermeasures, be it Veil of actives.
When you guys test, you test perhaps on a tripod (which massively disfavors the countermeasure(s)). You test at low speeds. And you actively try to defeat the countermeasure(s).
That's all well and good for making back-to-back comparisons, however, it often times will not represent the real-world.
In most real-world encounters, an officer is not specifically anticipating any difficulty in obtaining a speed reading. Hell, I have even encountered a police officer targeting through the windshield from the comfort of the driver's seat.
I have Veil only AND A COBRA XRS-9950. I was able to slow down without incident. The reason I KNOW that he wasn't able to get a reading WITH VEIL ONLY on my SILVER METALLIC BMW, was because I turned around and made another pass.
This time the officer had gotten out of his vehicle with his PRO III.
The only point I am making here, is that in the time it takes for an officer to realize that it's not going to be turkey shoot, you should have already slowed down.
Also, the faster you go, the harder it is one the gun. 20mph is slow and is good for making multiple comparitive runs. At 50, 60, 70, 80, or 90 (and beyond) it gets much harder on the lidar gun when either passives or actives are used. That is a fact.
So all I am suggesting is not to extrapolate your test experiences with those of the real-world. It doesn't necessarily work that way. OK?
So far, nobody in this thread has related a success. But several people have related first-hand failures. Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to those failures and only celebrate the questionable successes?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
What has happened to the forum is that it has matured. Enough of a body of evidence has been put forth over the last five years that we simply know better than we used to. There are enough people out here testing these things every day that we don't have to just sit back and listen to "success" stories. We can see for ourselves. And what I see is what I will report to people, good, bad, or indifferent. There is no intent to disparage Veil here. Only a commitment to helping my fellow forum members.
DJ,
Yes, I actually have, and often do. If you actually knew me, you would know this to be factually correct. 20 over is barely worth mentioning. Try 40-50. Now that's more typical.
I was once STHing with Steve and Staton (on the way to Cedar Point) in Ohio, cruising well above 80mph in a silver metallic BMW 330i, with Veil only and one of my trusty V1s. We got hit with an LTI at the top of a crest on the highway at speed, and I got on it hard. Needless to say, we didn't get a ticket. And I am CERTAIN we would have had I not had Veil. The reading would have been nearly instaneous. Steve will attest to it, as he was in the passenger seat at the time.
Another similar experience on highway we three got targeted from a cruiser on an overpass. Similar outcome. Fact, not fiction.
Another time I was in Florida on highway I-75 just north of Naples in a red rental Dodge Magnum wagon. In the evening, completely dark and targeted while cruisin at nearly 95mph, again with Veil only (on the rental) and the V1 and again, not ticketed.
Please don't suggest that these experiences were not as I explained them, because I know better, even if you don't.
If you are up to, I'd love to take a hard look at your ride to figure out were your PT's are coming from. I've seen raised antennae cause increased PTs. I'll bring my MILSPEC night vision device and will locate your weaknesses...
Veil Guy :cool:
First hand failures. Where? On a test course? Tripod mounted? At 20mph?
How many people who have had "failures" (in the real-world) actually got ticketed? Or doesn't this matter?
BTW, notice when someone posts a "success" how they get hammered into silence. Perhaps this may have something to do with it...the only ones talking are the ones that do the hammering.
Not to Steve it isn't.Quote:
Using that ugly ass Civic as an example is also disingenuous.
If you would allow me a chance to figure your car out, we could just as easily use yours...
I already know that Mustangs can be stealthed out without going overboard, because we ran some with Roy with great success.
If I recall, some suggested that wasn't a real-world "test" because I would traveling 90mph.
Real-world for whom? For me, those speeds ARE real-world, if not routine.
First:
^ erickonphoenix would love to have had those "5 seconds" that you spoke of.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock23
That statement is truly meaningless, jrock, without some sort of further physical framework.
At erickonphoenix's velocity and distances (see below), given that he'd shut-down the jammer at the time-of-PT, that 5 seconds after shut-down should have carried him well past the enforcer, and should have saved him from the ticket.
Yet, it did not.
-----
I really don't understand the problem, here. :confused:
This is precisely the case -Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
VEIL is a passive protective measure that is also a "point defense."
This simply means that VEIL protects what it covers - nothing more, nothing less.
We've seen plenty of vehicles do extremely well with just VEIL or VEIL in combination with an LED-based jammer - happya$$'s civic, Victor's Buick, The Breeze's Jeep Grand Cherokee - but we've also seen instances such as erickonphoneix's ( REF: http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...-thru-zr3.html , http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...inflicted.html, and http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...ct-sheila.html ).
We really cannot make any claims, either way - that any one or another vehicle is lousy with VEIL alone -or- that with any particular vehicle that VEIL alone would be near-JT(F)G.
The only truth is to say that without VEIL, one is worse-off - much worse off - than without....that at the very least, VEIL does the job that it's intended to do, to cut IR reflectivity from the worst of the point-weaknesses present on a vehicle.
We need to remember that having VEIL applied to one's headlights/plate/other hard-points is like carrying a very powerful, but very small, shield. In the face of an onslaught of arrows, that small shield is going to deflect anything that may come into contact with it - and if that shield is covering your, say, head, you'll still end the day with all the hairs on your head - but at the same time, it does nothing for those areas of your body which it doesn't cover.
VEIL isn't some sort of magical cloak that works all-over, if you only dabbed a spot of it on your hood. :)
If that's the case, then why would erickonphoenix have gotten a ticket? His vehicle was treated with VEIL, right? And it appears to be a very good job, when examined.
The problem precisely that there were areas other than those which were treated, that still presented enough of a LIDAR signature so as to have been a problem, at close range - so that when he mistakenly cut off his jammers too early, he got zapped.
I think that this is also why a lot of folks think that VEIL "doesn't work."
It's not that VEIL doesn't work - it's simply that in the tested scenarios, the LIDAR must have included, in its targeted areas, enough "unprotected" surface that it caused the gun to lock to-target. At 1000 ft., the typical LIDAR beam spreads out to nearly 36 inches in diameter....how much area does a headlamp, even one of those monstrous headlights on a current-generation Porsche or Cadillac Escalade occupy? Is it not reasonable, then, that under some of these testing conditions, VEIL may not be sufficient? Is it that VEIL failed? No certainly not - VEIL cannot be faulted for what it cannot physically cover.
Does VEIL work, in the proper context/scenario - undoubtedly - look at the under-1000 ft. PT data with and without VEIL for the Stalker LZ1, a LIDAR known to give trouble to "underpowered" jammers (this can be examined historically, with the G2 variant of VEIL, too - dig here with the proper searches, and you'll find many members of the GOL who marveled at the ability of VEIL to address this "headache" of a police LIDAR device), particularly at closer ranges. It's precisely the ability of VEIL to cut IR reflectivity that renders this performance possible.
VEIL is a point-protective measure, and all the members/vehicles highlighted show this to be fact. happya$$'s Civic demonstrates amazing "stealth" with VEIL alone, there's no denying that fact - but it's a small car, black, with LaserShield/VEIL protecting the front plate, and even is debadged of the chrome "H" on its grille. Victor's Buick is quite a bit larger, but it carries a similar careful eye towards maximizing passive stealth (blacked-out grille, removal of grille emblem, LaserShield over the front plate), and is, furthermore, dark green in color. The Breeze's truck is also green colored, and its front end not only carries VEIL on the lighting elements, but also has a bra addressing other potential weak-points. None of these cars can truly be said to have "VEIL alone" factors - all show what is possible with VEIL, yes, but these owners/enthusiasts have payed very, very careful attention towards completing "the complete picturem," even when discounting their use of active jammers.
I really and honestly cannot understand all the upset over this current argument, which seems to pop up every time a new hobbyist joins our ranks.
I think that a part of the problem comes in the thinking that these newbies may carry - in not fully understanding what VEIL can and cannot do - in that they somehow thinks that it will literally make their car "disappear" and become invisible to police LIDAR, if only they could, as the topic of this thread states, cover their entire front end with VEIL.
I've always maintained the view that VEIL is among one of the BEST possible passive protective measures available - however, that one needs to understand, fully, that VEIL is a point-protective measure designed to address a SPECIFIC weak-point (a *tremendous* weak-point, at that), and that yes, while having VEIL will be much better than not, that such protection cannot defy the physical bounds of their application, so that to achieve true passive "stealth," one must take into consideration the full passive LIDAR profile of their vehicle's front (or rear) aspect, and that just as there is clearly synergy to be had in the proper "layering" of passive protective measures (as happya$$'s, Victor's, and The Breeze's vehicle all show), everyone should understand that these are "point" measures, and that a failure to complete the picture will result in a chink in one's armor.
----
BTW, in the interest of full-disclosure:
I have never received a discount or any other financial incentives (including gifts of products, etc.) - aside from those discounts which are publicly known and available to any other member via joining "Group Buys" (of which I have organized exactly 0 [zero] of, so no, no possible problems there, either) - for *ANY* jammer. I speak of all jammers (all countermeasures, really) in a truly "from the heart" manner, of what I know about these devices as well as truly divorced from any potential external influences. For better or worse, I simply have no ties to anyone, either within this industry, or within this hobby.
I own 3 bottles of VEIL. 2 bottles of G4, and one of G2. I currently have a light coat of G4 on my daily-driven commuter, and in the past, every time I've been on a road-trip, I've used G2 on my rentals. Pictures of my VEIL application: http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...pressions.html and of my VEIL canisters: http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...79-99-a-5.html .
I have never taken any discount on VEIL (or LaserShield), aside from discounts which are publicly known and available to any other member via various coupon-codes (here on RadarBusters) or "pre-sale" (BRD.com) purchases.
I have always been a steadfast supporter of VEIL - this is just one such post that I remember, off-hand, from another Forum which I frequent: Did VEIL stain / damage your Subaru headlights ? - Subaru Legacy Forums - however, "support" doesn't mean blind adoration. I am, as-always, or so I'd like to think :p, fair in my assessments not only VEIL's strengths, but also its shortcomings.
And FWIW, I honestly do believe that StealthStalker as well as djrams80 have both been long-time supporters of VEIL. A review of their past posts here should prove-out this fact.
Heck, dj's even invested in professional HVLP painting of his vehicle's lamps with VEIL. :eek: That's intense!
Again, that is exactly the point. Real world results are completely unpredictable. That's why making claims that Veil alone is likely to give you a consistent ability to beat LIDAR is just not credible.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veil Guy
Ask anyone I have ever tested if I used a tripod. I don't even own a tripod. All my testing is real world, roadside, police encounter style. If I were seeing some tremendous results on vehicles with Veil alone, why wouldn't I report that? What would motivate me to say otherwise? If I were anti-Veil, why would I continue to promote it so heavily here? If you disagree with my observations, that's fair. But I really don't understand where you think you find the grounds to question my motivations or integrity.
Allen,
Points, well taken.
I actually don't have anything against these guys, at all, and I do appreciate their personal experiences (and trust them entirely).
I am just getting a bit fed up with comments like those of "VEIL is worthless, alone...yada...yada..." coupled with private commentary from the likes of those like Vic (who have expressed reservations about posting success stories on RD.NET and therefore post them on STH instead for fear of being riduculed here).
That's where my frustration comes from.
I'd love the opportunity to figure out where VEIL as a POINT DEFENSE is "failing" on some of these particular vehicles. Why? I suspect the same "points" of "failure" for Veil, would likely also conitribute to PTs with actives as well, or a least potentially be so.