http://www.aclu.org/national-securit...aw-enforcement
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Nice. I'll have to read it.
In general, the publication seemed OK...it was better than some stuff I've seen the ACLU say.
It seems to cater to specific events though. If a police officer pulls up to talk to you and you tell them you don't wanna talk and you keep walking away for no apparent reason, that's fine...but it could get to the point where they feel you're fleeing, especially if they identify themselves and tell you to stop, they call back up, they forcefully stop you, etc. It's happened before, with bad endings - so really, to follow that advice depends on the specific circumstances.
Another thing is consent to search your car. Briefly looking through the document it seemed OK, but one thing they don't note (I'm sure it's intentional) is that a lot of the time when you're asked if your car can be searched, there's already probable cause for them to search the car. They just ask you anyway to help their case or see what your response is.
The last thing I noticed...the "don't talk to the police if they knock on your door" is REALLY situational. Just because they're at your door doesn't mean they want to search your house or arrest you...for all you know they might be coming to tell you that there's an armed robber hiding in your backyard.
It's things like that where people end up causing problems for the police and vice versa. You have rights and for the most part that publication accurately describes them...but every situation is different and can't be covered by a catch-all guideline.
Just my own opinion. Thanks for posting this stlouisx :)
You seem fearful and complacent with law enforcement, perhaps from bad run ins in the past. Your outlook is exactly who the ACLU is preaching to. If you ask a cop if you're being detained, and they say no, and you ask if you are free to go and they say yes, they can not then rescind that and say you're fleeing. If you start walking away and they say they're not done yet, re-ask again, am i being detained or am I free to go?
Searching cars: They ask you for your consent because they /DON'T/ have probable cause, if they had it they wouldn't be asking for your consent in the first place.
Cops coming to the house, I *NEVER* answer my door for, if there is an armed robber in my backyard they can tell me with the door closed, I don't have to open it, period, and I don't.
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Originally Posted by krypton2
Hehe, quite on the contrary (for the fearful of law enforcement part). I can understand how you could read that as being such though, I guess...I tell things how they are from my point of view for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky225
You're right for the first statement... I didn't really mention about them telling you whether you're free to go or not, I just meant that if you're told to stop and don't stop, even if you tell them you don't wanna talk, there's a few things that could occur. Each state is different though. :)
Searching cars...you'd be surprised. Different states and different courts work different ways, but some officers do ask, even if they have probable cause to search already. While it might not happen in a lawsuit-happy city with a liberal court where it's tougher to justify, it does occur. It can help or hurt in court, depending on how well the officer can articulate the search - if they cover all bases that a defense attorney could bring up, it ends up helping the officer.
I found a few posts on a forum that were posted by police officers that verifies this...in addition to what I had said. There's probably more, but I just found a few off hand. If these links aren't allowed to be posted I can remove them...but I think they're allowed.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...=1#post2268133
http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...=1#post2268243
http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...=1#post2269748
There's people in there who, too, say that if the PC was there then the officer wouldn't ask. But the officers generally say otherwise. :)
wow some of those LEO's scare me. lucky or SS can you confirm this:
Quote:
Yes it sure is. Just as La Placa stated, we can arrest for everything except speeding and open container, and yes, that includes no seatbelt, not using your turn signal when required, and the list goes on and on. I will not show you where, but I will tell you that it would not be in the penal code for an offense concerning traffic, but it is in the transportation code. BTW, once I've arrested on the traffic charge, I'm not searching the vehicle, however, I am inventorying it.Quote:
http://forums.officer.com/forums/ima...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by justme001 http://forums.officer.com/forums/ima...post-right.png
Is running a Stop sign an arrestable offense in Texas? If yes--could you show me what part of Texas Penal Code, or what city ordinance authorizes an arrest for running a stop sign and if NO--then what would you use to charge them with in order to search their car?
a lot of them also say they don't ask and for good reason, if the person says no. at that point its game over for the LEO because even if he searches the car with his so called "PC" any half decent lawyer can get the search tossed be cause the LEO was denied consent.Quote:
Originally Posted by krypton2
It greatly depends on how you testify...and the judge/court/region.Quote:
Originally Posted by lugnutsa lot of them also say they don't ask and for good reason, if the person says no. at that point its game over for the LEO because even if he searches the car with his so called "PC" any half decent lawyer can get the search tossed be cause the LEO was denied consent.Quote:
Originally Posted by krypton2
well if its on the LEO's or your in car video there's not much to question.
Without getting into having to dig up Supreme Court cases, you need to know that if you are speeding, and you get pulled over, the officer has every right to ask for your drivers license, and your car registration. In some states, he can ask for proof of insurance. The Supreme Court has continually held that suspicion being the lowest among probably cause to search, allows an officer to search a car around the drivers area for his safety. Beyond suspicion, he can not go into locked areas or the trunk without permission or a warrant. His area of search for safety is defind as 'within reach of the driver'. If you got a passenger who has warrants or is illegally armed...it extends the search area inside the car. Now, if he writes you out a traffic citation and you refuse to sign, you have just given him probable cause for arrest, and that has been upheld by the Supreme Court in numerous cases. In fact, in the majority opinion, the officer actually has the right to decide if he is going to give you a ticket, or physically arrest you on a traffic violation. Some states, have open container laws, where you will be persumed to have been drinking, if an empty containter is found in the car...Washington D.C. is a good example. Alaska and Oklahoma another (unless Ok has ammended their state law). In short, sometimes what you read does apply..but not in every case. Being cooperative and polite may not save you a ticket..but it may get you a break. Officers hate paperwork and having to go to court, so keep that in mind.
Actually, The SCOTUS has consistently held that the only thing a driver has to do is give the Leo his license and/or registration and proof of insurance. Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, you don't have to,say a word as ypur license Ids you as you. As to a search, assuming no arrest, the Leo does not have a right to search your dad if he has no reasonable suspicion to do so. Only if it's incident to arrest or as inventory search. Can't open trunk of glove box etc unless you're in custody and did not give consent. Consent is the worst thing to do because it acts as waiver of rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelRHS
I have had a few friends find GPS trackers on their Cars. They are on probation. Was this legal in most states even for Law enforcement? Who would they report this too?
Sorry mate, that sounds like "paper's please!" My attorney said your post is in error. Truth is, your in a free country, and innocent almost all the time. I think I read that somewhere, "innocent until proven guilty." Law is bent, and you are too. The fact is there are the scales of balance, you clearly do not understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelRHS
Kmeleon
[QUOTE=Kmeleon;915704]Sorry mate, that sounds like "paper's please!" My attorney said your post is in error. Truth is, your in a free country, and innocent almost all the time. I think I read that somewhere, "innocent until proven guilty." Law is bent, and you are too. The fact is there are the scales of balance, you clearly do not understand. An argument could be made that being pulled off the road to the berm, is in fact, not on the road. Good lawyers can warp time and space in your favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelRHS
Kmeleon