New radar could catch all speeders on the roads | 9news.com
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interesting stuff
seems like it would take a lot of 'detectable' energy to monitor 32 vehicles in 4 lanes
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGoat
We need a tech. to get on the forum and let us know how this operates. I am guessing like the speed cameras in Missouri, done by video movement detection.
They call it "radar", like most speed measuring devices, but I would be interested to know what is the principle this unit operates on. Looking at the video I don't think any radar is involved here. Looks more like an image recognition software.
EDIT: true StlouisX50, they are definitely using image recognition to label vehicles, but it is not certain if that is a prime method of measuring speed. I have seen those little icons jump all over the vehicle in the vid which doesn't suggest a very reliable speed detection that way.
but the system still does not tell them it is the blue Chevy in the right lane that is speeding. It will tell them the speed of 32 targets but they still have to figure out which one is which. It would be fun taking this to court and get the police to explain how they determine which of the 32 cars was speeding.
here is the Cordon Specifications sheet. http://peakgainsystems.com/PDF/Cordon-spec-sheet.pdf
Under Principles of Operation, there is an area covered by a "radar beam" and another by the camera. Someone should call the number at the bottom of the page to see if they can find anything else out on how it works
imagine that mounted on police cruiser, it really looks like a permanent stationary system. Now I can see how it can determine which vehicle was going what speed. It is using video recognition system and the position in the frame of view and the returning path of the radar to determine which car is going which speed. This is advance military type radar and video system.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnseenEnemy
Rest assure our police departments are too cheap to deploy a system like this in a patrol car. These may show up in automatic ticketing systems though. I bet the UK will be the first to use this.
Would this system rely on the front tag of a vehicle? .
If you only had one tag I wonder if it would keep the vehicle in"memory" tell it could get a view of the rear tag.
Interesting either way....
I am sure we are a few years away from something like this sitting on a pole zapping speeders down one by one and then relaying the tag number along with the images to local LEOS to make traffic stops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestroimagine that mounted on police cruiser, it really looks like a permanent stationary system. Now I can see how it can determine which vehicle was going what speed. It is using video recognition system and the position in the frame of view and the returning path of the radar to determine which car is going which speed. This is advance military type radar and video system.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnseenEnemy
Rest assure our police departments are too cheap to deploy a system like this in a patrol car. These may show up in automatic ticketing systems though. I bet the UK will be the first to use this.
I don't think its emitting anything. I think it is just using the ambient light to take images, and then using image correlation to calculate rate of speed. I might know the guy who worked on developing this...Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGoat
Take a field of view and break it up into grid squares. Recognition software tracks a vehicle the distance from one square to another against an accurate time base calculating speed. Really shouldn't need radar / laser.
Exactly , Security Camera Software does this already. I could see how they would just pick the squares based on the way the road goes. Basically you fill in the pixels covering the road and make them coordinate the movement in the zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_King
So is this using radar or not?
At first I figured it was just a s=d/t sort of deal using the camera frames but then there were references to a radar beam, emittance, and other things that would be true only with radar.
If you look at the picture on the PDF specs sheet it does appear that there's some sort of radar emitting device on the left side (right side of the picture) of the device.
I got some of the features below, as if we do not have enough laws, rules and bullsh*t to follow now without getting fined in our lives! I would live to kick the inventor of this thing in the balls. And if its radar has the ability to track that many drivers it should not be hard to tell who is speeding cause they will all be glowing in the dark!! Still, it emits a radar signal, it can be detected.
Advanced radar simultaneously measures speeds and positions of all oncoming and outgoing targets in control area. It provides a strict correspondence between measured speed and the vehicle marked on multi-target image.
Speed sensor provides a control area including up to 4 traffic lanes.
Automatic detection of reserved bus (or taxi) lane violations with advanced license plate recognition systemAutomatic detection of driving on the wrong side of the road.
Automatic saving of violation data on SD memory card installed in speed sensor.
Night time operation using integrated IR spotlights.
On-board GPS/GLONASS navigation unit downloads the GPS/GLONASS coordinates to the violation record.Data encryption and protection of software and output file prevents tampering with data and compromising of evidence.
User-friendly touch-screen display for easy initial setup and deployment of the unit.
Option to continuously stream captured traffic violation data to a centralized database using wired or wireless communication channels (VPN channel over 3G, WiMAX, Wi-Fi). This minimizes back office processing effort and eliminates the possibility of lost or damaged physical media.
Optional wireless diagnostic channel for remote servicing of speed sensor
Fear not!
I wouldn't.
First is it Russian made. Are we really now so technologically challenged that best option for traffic speed enforcement came from Russia? Shame.
From technical and legal perspective:
It is probably image assisted microwave (judging by Radome cover on the front it has MicroWave), multi-tone like spectrum analyzer, correlating optical motion estimation with peak tones of Doppler signal. Brilliant idea.
If anybody familiar with limitation of regular sped radar use (usually at the end of user manual) like scan, cosine, multi-path and rotating objects, this one adds arbitrary algorithm of selecting and correlating Doppler signal to motion estimation from image. Manufacturer must demonstrate that selection is reliable. I can bet that by American legal standard proof of such testing is required, and Russian common technological tradition is lacking such testing. I can bet that any moderately skilled lawyer can prove, maybe with engineer's help, that system like "Cordon" can not reliably, by American legal standards, indicate actual vehicle speed. Doppler signal will have cacophony of tones. These can be extracted reliably, but consider bunch of combination frequencies, some with very minor difference, multi-path will produce Doppler tones with multiple of deltas. There will be more than one tone that can fit some vehicle. In court I would request actual system log with actual dynamic Doppler spectrum presented. I can bet there will be so many frequencies it will be a haystack to look into. Case closed.
I know cases when speeding ticket was successfully challenged only on bases of expired calibration. Calibration for this one will be so complex that no court would accept it.
It will require couple of cases in court but I'm pretty sure, even if someone like it so much to get it in US and use it for a while, it will be such a legal challenge, that in US it will be eventually dropped.
Alternative - how about auto-aiming multi-beam lasers? This will be the killer! But this would require more hardware than software, harder for Russians rich with software and poor with hardware to implement. This would have success in US. Everybody know that laser is pretty much hopeless for motorists, but cops still use mostly old, fender-fixed radars. Because Lasers is just too much work for them. Thinking more about it - this probably just will make laser jammers more popular.
By the way, it already couple of years since news. Where are they?
Cheers Y'all!
It is Russian radar, work in K band, and a lot of radardetectors have a bad sensivity on it signal.Quote:
Originally Posted by StlouisX50
For example this video (Russia) - testing radardeetctors on Kordon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcPo6e9Jluc
We tested Pilot 21RS Plus on this radar, soon we can show wideo
In Russia this type of radar is a big problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcPo6e9Jluc
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGoat
I couldn't agree more with OldGoat on this one. You can't transmit that much signal without placing more radians down range period. Seem's like a win win for a detector user and a lose lose for a officer to me. Really. With lidar systems becoming more and more sophisticated who really cares about low powered Radar/broadband xmiters, or wide ranging detection attempts. By the time the alert is uttered and you are in the kill zone you'll already be slowed in this scenario thus really only concerning to a "non detector user" as usual.
Alpine-