General Laser Detection & ZR3 Optimal Install Questions

Hey All,

I have a silver Mitsubishi Eclipse. I'm wondering how the color and the shape of the car will work to my advantage(disadvantage) when being shot with laser. I don't think the shape/color of cars has much impact with k/ka radar but if that's not the case please correct me there too! Is silver a good color for the laser evader? What about the shape of my car?

Also, where should I put my 2 front shifters? Would they be best above the maroon arrow or the green one (and of course the drivers-side equivalents)? I am thinking they'd be best tucked as high up and as far towards the front as possible above the green arrow. Do you guys see a better spot? If you do think they'd be best where I think, how far apart should they be on that piece of my bumper? I'd mount them both to the top edge of that air intake. Should I angle them slightly to get better coverage or should they just be dead-straight and level? Should I cough up the $250 extra for the ZR4 shifters or are they not worth it? I read the only difference is the shifting of Laser Atlanta which isn't that popular.

I would appreciate any thoughts. I am new to this and want the most out of my system but also want to learn it's limitations.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3936/lowview.jpg

I would do green, red looks too hard to mount at.

Also silver is a terrible color for laser protection, but you have a really sloped/rounded front so it's going to create issues for a laser gun to get enough reflection.

Are you sure you don't want better laser protection than a ZR3? (Blinder or LI?)

I tried mounting some Jammers over the summer on an eclipse, its not an easy job. Defiantly mount where the green arrow is, an advantage that the eclipse has is that the grill plate is back far enough to where you can mount the jammers in front of it and they will still be hidden.

GreenRadar: Did you end up putting them where I think would be best? Should they be facing straight forward or slightly to the sides? I'd love to see a pic of the finished install on the Eclipse if you can get one.

verymanywelps: No, I'm not totally sure I want the ZR4. The main thing that attracts me to them is the integration with my radar detector. I looked at the Blinder M27's and they seem like the most bang for the buck. Maybe marginally worse than the LI jammers but $200 less. I am wondering though if I need a whole new set of controls if I do that. Can I just mount the main control box behind my dash for the Blinders and have them automatically turn on with the car so I never have to worry about it? Do they have a little button on a wire that I can press to turn the jammers off like the ZR4's? On their website it looks like they might come with this but would like to make sure. My main concern is having to have a whole nother box accessible somewhere in my car. My detector and a button for the jammers is the ideal setup. Can the Blinders do this?

LEVEL to the ground and both DIRECTLY STRAIGHT out the front of the car.

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Originally Posted by MadMax

GreenRadar: Did you end up putting them where I think would be best? Should they be facing straight forward or slightly to the sides? I'd love to see a pic of the finished install on the Eclipse if you can get one.

verymanywelps: No, I'm not totally sure I want the ZR4. The main thing that attracts me to them is the integration with my radar detector. I looked at the Blinder M27's and they seem like the most bang for the buck. Maybe marginally worse than the LI jammers but $200 less. I am wondering though if I need a whole new set of controls if I do that. Can I just mount the main control box behind my dash for the Blinders and have them automatically turn on with the car so I never have to worry about it? Do they have a little button on a wire that I can press to turn the jammers off like the ZR4's? On their website it looks like they might come with this but would like to make sure. My main concern is having to have a whole nother box accessible somewhere in my car. My detector and a button for the jammers is the ideal setup. Can the Blinders do this?

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What detector are you using (STI-R+? 3600?)?

How much are you paying for the laser bit?

LI is unmatched and Blinder is close. ZR3/4 have gaping holes in the protection envelopes....

I have a 9500ix that I keep on highway mode. I think you have convinced me into getting Blinders. From what you're saying it seems that the ZR3/4's might not be very useful in an encounter. I can get Blinders for the price of the ZR4's and as far as integration it seems that no matter what I get I can hide everything but the off switch.

No dont go zr anything Go Li or blinder.....

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Originally Posted by verymanywelps

........ but you have a really sloped/rounded front so it's going to create issues for a laser gun to get enough reflection.

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Really? Are you sure ?

installed them right where the green arrows are pointing, one on each side. I'm not talking to the person who I did the install for any more so unfortunately I won't be able to get pics.

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Originally Posted by fulcrum

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Originally Posted by verymanywelps

........ but you have a really sloped/rounded front so it's going to create issues for a laser gun to get enough reflection.

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Really? Are you sure ?

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It will help (a flat front is harder to protect)

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Originally Posted by verymanywelps

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Originally Posted by fulcrum

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Originally Posted by verymanywelps

........ but you have a really sloped/rounded front so it's going to create issues for a laser gun to get enough reflection.

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Really? Are you sure ?

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It will help (a flat front is harder to protect)

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I think you are wrong on this. When you laser a round surface there will always be an area on that surface that will reflect the light back towards the gun. A flat surface will reflect light in one direction only, and that is normally not where the light came from.....

Of course there is scattering of light, a car surface is not a perfect mirror (flat or curved), so some energy will always reflect back to the gun.

In general round surfaces are much better laser targets then flat surfaces. This is why headlights (often) are good targets for laserguns. They reflect well, and somewhere on its round area there will be a spot that returns the laserlight back to the gun.

A flat front normally is easier to protect, because the lasergun gets less usable reflection from it......

Man, I need to buy a black C4 corvette! That would be the ultimate in laser protection. Totally flat hood, black color, no font plate and the retractable headlights would be nuts!! The cops wouldn't know WHAT to do with that laser beam.

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Originally Posted by fulcrum

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Originally Posted by verymanywelps

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Originally Posted by fulcrum

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Originally Posted by verymanywelps

........ but you have a really sloped/rounded front so it's going to create issues for a laser gun to get enough reflection.

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Really? Are you sure ?

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It will help (a flat front is harder to protect)

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I think you are wrong on this. When you laser a round surface there will always be an area on that surface that will reflect the light back towards the gun. A flat surface will reflect light in one direction only, and that is normally not where the light came from.....

Of course there is scattering of light, a car surface is not a perfect mirror (flat or curved), so some energy will always reflect back to the gun.

In general round surfaces are much better laser targets then flat surfaces. This is why headlights (often) are good targets for laserguns. They reflect well, and somewhere on its round area there will be a spot that returns the laserlight back to the gun.

A flat front normally is easier to protect, because the lasergun gets less usable reflection from it......

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LIDAR needs a certain amount of light reflected back at it. Flat fronts reflect more light TOWARD the gun, whereas rounded fronts have more bits that would cause a reflection, but less overall area reflecting at the gun.

Unlike radar, lidar is a very narrow and controlled beam. You're thinking of RADAR.

Look at yourself in a mirror, and then turn the mirror around a little bit. There is only one position where you can look into your own eyes. A flat mirror potentially is the best reflector for a laser, but only when it happens to be at exactly the right position. In all other cases, the light will go somewhere else. REALLY! :):)

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Originally Posted by GreenRadar

I tried mounting some Jammers over the summer on an eclipse, its not an easy job. Defiantly mount where the green arrow is, an advantage that the eclipse has is that the grill plate is back far enough to where you can mount the jammers in front of it and they will still be hidden.

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OK. Sorry for this grammar police post, but this is a pet peeve of mine. The word you are looking for here is "definitely". The word "defiantly" means to boldly resist. It's root word is "defy".

/rant

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Originally Posted by fulcrum

Look at yourself in a mirror, and then turn the mirror around a little bit. There is only one position where you can look into your own eyes. A flat mirror potentially is the best reflector for a laser, but only when it happens to be at exactly the right position. In all other cases, the light will go somewhere else. REALLY! :):)

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I've shot literally thousands of cars, with and without jammers. Cars with flat surfaces are much harder to protect. The back of my Mustang was a b**ch to stealth. The backs or Corvettes are easy targets.

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Originally Posted by djrams80

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Originally Posted by fulcrum

Look at yourself in a mirror, and then turn the mirror around a little bit. There is only one position where you can look into your own eyes. A flat mirror potentially is the best reflector for a laser, but only when it happens to be at exactly the right position. In all other cases, the light will go somewhere else. REALLY! :):)

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I've shot literally thousands of cars, with and without jammers. Cars with flat surfaces are much harder to protect. The back of my Mustang was a b**ch to stealth. The backs or Corvettes are easy targets.

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I believe you, there are many other parameters that will influence the total outcome.

- angle of the flat surface towards the gun, general reflectivity of the surface
- color, metal paint etc.
- light scattering of the surface.

I have had experience with cars with flat surfaces that are contradicting your experience.

A few years ago, we experimented here a lot with destroying the retro-reflecting capabilties of rear-reflectors and license plates.
We basically repainted the license plates in a normal color yellow very close to the original retro-reflecting yellow, and destroing the reflectors from the inside using a dremel minidrill to f**k up the facets of the reflector. (You couldn't see it from the outside, but the retro-reflecting effect was gone)

That left us with a naked rear of the car. The end result was that most cars we tested with were very difficult to laser from the rear, but much easier to laser from the front.
(also "modified" license plate in the front) The headlights where the remaining big problem. We also used IR/flash photography to show remaining reflecting surfaces. There were many more hot spots in the front than in the rear.

On the other end for example: Some flat surfaces scatter the light maybe 10-20 degrees (The ideal flat mirror is 0 degrees) If that surface is less than 20 degrees off from the ideal position, it becomes an easy target. (A much better target than a flat mirror in the same position) Again there are many parameters that will influence the end result................

Fact is: If you glue a flat mirror on the back of a car, it will become almost impossible to laser it. (Except from one angle)

Maybe the best answer is that flat and highly reflective surfaces are very difficult laser targets. And flat surfaces that scatter light just enough to compensate for the angle are easy targets.

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Originally Posted by djrams80

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Originally Posted by GreenRadar

I tried mounting some Jammers over the summer on an eclipse, its not an easy job. Defiantly mount where the green arrow is, an advantage that the eclipse has is that the grill plate is back far enough to where you can mount the jammers in front of it and they will still be hidden.

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OK. Sorry for this grammar police post, but this is a pet peeve of mine. The word you are looking for here is "definitely". The word "defiantly" means to boldly resist. It's root word is "defy".

/rant

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ROFL

Thanks for all the info. I got my laser jammers installed today. They did a good job with everything but it doesn't seem very stealth to me... I live in a state where jammers are not legal so I was hoping for them to be a bit more hidden than they are. Do you guys think I'll be OK keeping them mounted where they are? Or is it unbelievably obvious? Would it effect the way they operate if I were to move them back into the vent another 3/4 inch? They just seem like they're sticking out pretty far.

What do you think?

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1467/imag0171m.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3242/imag0172f.jpg

No, do not recess them any further. Those are already recessed more than they should be. I also live in a state where they are illegal. I've been pulled over four times with them all over my car and no LEO has ever said a word about them. You should be fine. What you need to do is get them tested (by a forum member, not a LEO) and find out if you are actually protected or not before you rely on them to protect you from speeding tickets.

OK, thanks for the info djrams. You've been extremely helpful with all my questions. Is there anyone in the Bay Area/Santa Cruz (California) that has a laser gun and would be interested in helping a fellow forum member out?

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Originally Posted by MadMax

OK, thanks for the info djrams. You've been extremely helpful with all my questions. Is there anyone in the Bay Area/Santa Cruz (California) that has a laser gun and would be interested in helping a fellow forum member out?

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I was in the Bay Area yesterday and the day before. Bummer. I might be back there in a couple of weeks. If not, how far are you willing to drive to meet up to test?

Hmm... I don't know if I could go all the way down to the Los Angeles area. Although it would provide a lot of testing experience with the new setup on the way there and back. I don't get much laser in Santa Cruz so I should be able to survive on assumptions for a few weeks until you come back up. Do you know any members that live up in this area with a lidar gun that I might try PMing? In case you don't end up in the area for a while.

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Originally Posted by MadMax

Hmm... I don't know if I could go all the way down to the Los Angeles area. Although it would provide a lot of testing experience with the new setup on the way there and back. I don't get much laser in Santa Cruz so I should be able to survive on assumptions for a few weeks until you come back up. Do you know any members that live up in this area with a lidar gun that I might try PMing? In case you don't end up in the area for a while.

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We could meet half way or something. I have a really nice testing spot in Bakersfield. That would cut a couple of hours off your trip.

Why don't you just message me next time your up here? I can PM you my phone number too.