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I have both and fine my .872 V1 with pop on to be equal to the red line on most occasions with the arrows to boot. I would highly recommend the V1. The redline is good yes but nowhere near as refine as the V1. If you had both detectors after a while I’m sure you would agree. To me the V1 is fine wine and the redline a chicken dress up as turkey.
Chose the one that picks up Ka POP and rear laser scatter. :)
I have to admit that I have been running them both side by side for nearly a week now and I am already starting to wonder how I ever survived for all these years without the V1's direction arrows and bogey counter.
Yes, they (Redline/V1) are now quite close in raw detection radar sensitivity but there is really no substitute (and I can only now see this) for knowing exactly "where" that LEO is. It really matters in many real world situations unless you want to always be hitting the brakes and often quite unnecessarily.
BTW, my (the latest) version of the V1 does appear to be slightly better than the Redline in raw sensitivity too (usually several seconds faster in alerting - the Redline seems much more sluggish like it is mulling over whether it should alert or not, I think that in an I/O case that could be costly).
Switching either unit OFF seems to change nothing in terms of this delay or sensitivity.
Anyway, I think that Valentine's arrows patent must have driven the Escort folks crazy over the years and especially how to counter that feature in those vital radar detector reviews that drive sales.
But knowing the direction of the radar source is such a GOOD idea that I'll bet there will be an Escort version that has arrows on it very soon after Mr. Valentine's patent expires.
I wonder what certain reviewers will be saying about arrows then - still just a gimmick? :rolleyes: Hmmm..... anyway it sure will be fun to read those reviews.
As far as I know Mr Valentine's patent has expired. Escort seemed to have a platform that they are happy with for the moment as all the “new” RD’s are just revamps of the older ones. From what I remember bell spent something like $8000 000 to develop the M3 horn. VR still has the patent for the 2 front and one rear horn which I'm thinking is what belcort are after. I'm sure 2 front horns and one back including undetectable is what one would expect and nothing less from belcort but how much will cost to develop and how well will the arrows work???????
Wow... I had a very interesting experience just half an hour ago.
I am still running my V1 and Redline together. I am pulling up to a light in town and there are some strip malls ahead there running K-band door openers (and maybe a K-band drone).
Both detectors immediately go off registering strong K-band (that I knew were likely false) alerts.
I'm sitting at the red light and a few seconds later the Valentine alerts to yet another bogey. The bogey counter jumps to 2 and the new signal showing is Ka (I'm in California where Ka is the really name of the game). The Ka signal grows stronger and stronger - the Redline is still showing a K-band signal only!
The light changes and I roll forward and I soon pass a sheriff who has pulled into the strip mall and left his radar machine running.
All the time the Redline is ONLY showing a K-band alert. The V1 tracks both the K and Ka signals and as I pass by the parked LEO and soon shows Ka behind me. The Redline is still showing the K-band drone alone.
I am TOTALLY impressed by this encounter! Amazing!
That's a big +1 for the Valentine in my side by side comparison.
Bob
May I suggest interference from the V1? Sounds like a classic example.
While people will tell you it's interference from running another detector, that's not entirely true. The Redline loses a great deal of sensitivity when there is another strong radar source present. It is VERY significant, especially when compared to a V1. It seems the V1 smokes the Redline on multiple signal discrimination and sensitivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
So yes...it's interference, but not due to the V1.
Doubtful IMO. Turning each on and off has made no difference in all my testing so far and they are 4' plus apart.
But even if your theory is correct then the V1 still wins in this scenario for being the more interference proof. So.. a guy could be close to me with a V1 (or similar) and you are saying that could disable my Redline from seeing a strong Ka signal? Or similarly some other external interference could make my Redline fail to see such a dangerous and very strong Ka signal too?
This was not a faint signal and I think that the Redline just stopped looking at the Ka band entirely (a software problem perhaps?). And in any case no matter which theory is correct it is still not a good result for the Redline even if it was caused by interference.
It doesn't stop looking at Ka, it still sweeps and will report it if it detects it. I believe it has a tougher time picking out the next signal when there is already a strong signal present. V1 also loses range due to another stronger signal present, but in my testing it seems to be much better. I do need to do more testing, though, and would like others to do their own testing to see if it's repeatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
Ka band will overlap K band on the redline just like Laser will overlap Laser. Not sure what happened there.
Like I said, interference.
Arrows and bogy counter are awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
When used together the V1 is benefitting from the RedLine's stealth design. RedLine was designed to not be detected by any radar detector detector, it emits very little emissions. These are the same emissions that cause interference between detectors. This has been proven again and again, even with distances that a Spectre detected each detector with provided by GoL in a 2009 test. Note that the STi uses the same M3 antenna as the RedLine. Some here are willing to accept this interference when running the two detectors together, but they are aware of it happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by RagsIt doesn't stop looking at Ka, it still sweeps and will report it if it detects it. I believe it has a tougher time picking out the next signal when there is already a strong signal present. V1 also loses range due to another stronger signal present, but in my testing it seems to be much better. I do need to do more testing, though, and would like others to do their own testing to see if it's repeatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
http://guysoflidar.com/radar-detecto...09/spectre.gif
Just because a Spectre does not detect the Redline does NOT mean the detector is not leaking from the LO. The Redline most certainly does, I have captured the LO activity on its first, second, and third order emissions with a spectrum analyzer. The V1 also picks up on its emissions when Ka Guard is turned off and displays it as a Ka alert. The STi and other M3 detectors I have looked at are similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortRadarWhen used together the V1 is benefitting from the RedLine's stealth design. RedLine was designed to not be detected by any radar detector detector, it emits very little emissions. These are the same emissions that cause interference between detectors. This has been proven again and again, even with distances that a Spectre detected each detector with provided by GoL in a 2009 test. Note that the STi uses the same M3 antenna as the RedLine. Some here are willing to accept this interference when running the two detectors together, but they are aware of it happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by RagsIt doesn't stop looking at Ka, it still sweeps and will report it if it detects it. I believe it has a tougher time picking out the next signal when there is already a strong signal present. V1 also loses range due to another stronger signal present, but in my testing it seems to be much better. I do need to do more testing, though, and would like others to do their own testing to see if it's repeatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
http://guysoflidar.com/radar-detecto...09/spectre.gif
Yes, they are not as strong, but running a Redline next to the V1 is NOT a benefit to the V1's detection range, in fact it hinders it.
Now that's out of the way, that has nothing to do with anything I posted that you quoted. My testing with multiple signals were done with the detectors running alone and only dealing with real world condtions and a real world C/O speed trap.
The Redline loses a lot of its range to the second signal detected. So does the V1. But the Redline appears to be more affected. So while the Redline has the ability to sniff out single C/O signals as good as or even better (sometimes far better) than the V1, when dealing with a stronger C/O falsing source such as a K band speed sign, the Redline does not pick up the real Police Ka threat that lurks within that area as good as the V1. In fact, from what I am seeing thus far, the V1 appears to be twice to three times as good at picking out that second signal (The V1's range is twice to three times better in that situation).
The good news is that if the false source is not very strong, both are extremely capable.
Does that make any more sense?
It seems to me that anytime the V1 wins something over the Redline then the cause MUST be interference but if the Redline wins something over the V1 then the cause MUST be that it is a better detector. I'm yawning!
Is it just possible that you have a software bug when processing multiple signals Mr. Escort? I have worked in software (30+ years) and I have yet to see ANY perfect code.
But this sounds like the familiar old malign the V1 deal. For the record - these were strong signals. It's not a discussion of reduced range.
Now the real motive comes out........
This has nothing to do with your V1. I would have said the same thing if you were using any non-M3 detector with the RedLine, even one of ours. Detectors interfere with each other. This can cause either detector to entirely miss alerts. Whenever anyone reports odd behaviors when using multiple detectors then this is usually the culprit. Once their sweeps align then all sorts of odd things can happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
I haven't heard any other reports of alerts being missed with multiple signals detected (which is a common occurence) so I doubt that this is a software bug. Other than the software installed to use Escort Live, the RedLine's software has not changed since it was released. If it was software related then all RedLines would be effected which does not appear to be the case.
Continuing to compare my V1 and Redline I noticed something else that is IMO VERY significant...
We "suffer" from K-band TSR a lot in my home area and these guns typically discharge a 1-2 second shot of radar exactly every 30 seconds (so you can actually predict when the next shot will arrive).
Parking near one of these guns I noticed that my Redline was missing most of these bursts and only alerting to the odd one but the V1 never missed a single K-band shot (this is true regardless of whether the other detector in the car is also on).
The Redline seems to have a problem detecting short bursts of I/O K-band!! This is very bad IMO. These are legitimate enforcement frequencies and the LEO's here typically shoot K-band in little short bursts (if they are using K-band at all). The longer burst only comes when you have earned a ticket.
Your only chance to avoid an I/O K-band ticket is to detect these short 1-2 second bursts being directed at a car ahead of you. The Redline is failing to do this - whether or not the V1 is turned on (no interference this time :rolleyes: ).
BTW, neither detector has its TSR algorithm enabled because K-band is always used I/O around here if it is being used at all. Turning that on you may as well disable K-band entirely and go blind because the detector will give you no warning at all until the LEO fires his longer "confirmation" shot.
Sorry Mr. Escort but after two weeks if I was going to return one of these now it would be the Redline.
BTW, I have since heard that the Veil guy has a video showing this exact same effect.
Thought I'd share my thoughts on running BOTH the V1 and RedLine at once:
My V1 tends to "wake up" and alert more frequently when I run the RedLine with my V1. Furthermore, I notice that my V1 also alerts quicker when my RedLine is mounted as well. Maybe the interference that the RedLine produces is just the perfect amount to wake the V1 and keep it actively looking, but, not too much of an interference in which the V1 slows down, or goes deaf.
My thoughts are not fully tested out, but, it poses the question of benefits in "interference" between the V1/RL combo.
As I've mentioned earlier on this topic, I'd recommend you getting both detectors. They run fine together, and if you happen to have the 1% chance where the RedLine goes deaf, your V1 will do just fine as it usually does.
Get a STIR+ and it will beat both the v1 and redline.
I've heard nothing but great reviews of the Plus. That is always an option. However, it is not a windshield mount RD which is its only con.Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveHeartCa
Any RD mounted on the front of the car and not shooting out through the windshield glass will always have an edge over the ones that do (like V1 and Redline).Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveHeartCa
But look at the price of that thing and if you are non-technical you will also have to pay another $500 to have someone install it for you. Then it is also going to be stuck in ONE car only.
The beauty of detectors like the V1 and Redline is that you can pop them into any car that you choose in a few seconds.
If I drive my wife's car I move my detector there. She on the other hand HATES detectors period and prefers to "never speed".
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaractorAny RD mounted on the front of the car and not shooting out through the windshield glass will always have an edge over the ones that do (like V1 and Redline).Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveHeartCa
But look at the price of that thing and if you are non-technical you will also have to pay another $500 to have someone install it for you. Then it is also going to be stuck in ONE car only.
The beauty of detectors like the V1 and Redline is that you can pop them into any car that you choose in a few seconds.
If I drive my wife's car I move my detector there. She on the other hand HATES detectors period and prefers to "never speed".
I agree with you 100 percent, I have a 9500ci + LI quad installed in my fun car, which used to be my daily driver..But now I have a car i Drive 95 percent of the time and the 9500ci just sits in the garage all day in the car i don't drive.
I actually popped in this thread because I'm considering selling the ci to get the redline.
+1 vote for Redline. I've owned both b4 and Redline has awsome off axis which is great for hills, briges, and curves. I won't even mention the range is outstanding! The best I seen so far.
Wow - you have owned both before and you want a Redline?
I can think of several reasons why I would take the V1 if I had to be limited to having only one:
1. Cheaper by $100+
2. Better - more sensitive to I/O (short bursts), rear detection is much better etc..
3. Locates the radar via the arrows
4. LIDAR - the Redline isn't even close with Laser detection
I have had 4 Escorts (the latest is the Redline) and now that I have a V1 I am seriously wondering how I lived without the arrows.
price,laser detection,and rear detection are not reasons I wouls pick v1 over redline. The ONLY reason to consider v1 over redline is the I/O quick trigger advantage. But escort will probably solve this via firmware upgrade soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang_guy17price,laser detection,and rear detection are not reasons I wouls pick v1 over redline. The ONLY reason to consider v1 over redline is the I/O quick trigger advantage. But escort will probably solve this via firmware upgrade soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
You must be stoned.
This may be solved by band segregation period. This in turn relieves everybody of belcourts poor random Ka filtering (33.6 GHz), and none reliable Q/T and sub standard close up I/O. We could only hope that would fix the ramp up as well. The redline at the price of $500 is only worth it if you live in an area where detectors are illegal other than that the V1 is by a long shot kick ass. Don’t let the bell machine suck you in. I do a lot of miles and I mean a lot. The V1 impresses me often the redline not so often. If you want the best get the V1 end of storey.
I know its been said over and over, but for me, one feature trumps all others. If you don't know where the signal is coming from, it is not very helpful. Arrows on the V1 is the killer app. Like the guy said before about the CHP coming up from behind him, he didn't know. Yeah, he got an alert from a million miles away but without arrows you will sit there with your head on a swivel while you freak out trying to figure out what "beep" means. Not worth it.
I thought the V1 patent was expired, and I wish other competitors would incorporate arrows, but they don't. It is such a simple thing that cannot be overlooked in my opinion. I bought both and did the 30 day trial, but the V1 was the champ. (plus laser is better, and the remote display is nice)
And about off-axis... I have seen the tests and I know that the Redline has somewhat better off axis sensitivity. BUT, I have had a V1 for 5 years and I live in Colorado. There are plenty of curves and mountains to go up down and around. I drive about 15,000 miles a year and I have NEVER had an off-axis sensitivity issue. Just the opposite. Radar is so easy to pick up, I think people are focusing on the wrong advantages. I have always had MORE than enough time to adjust my speed on off-axis sources, and really am not sure why people are even bringing this up. Will someone come on here and honestly say the V1 didn't give them enough advanced warning on radar? If so, there must have been something wrong with the detector. That is just completely the opposite of my experience. How many seconds do you need to slow down? Yes, Redline is better in this regard but it's an irrelevant advantage in the real world in my experience.
Just say NO
to
Beep-N-Wonder
Look in the mirror when you need to,
not because you wonder
Regarding the "off-axis" claims. I'm in CA too and drive a lot in the Sierra's with winding roads everywhere and CHP hiding around curves shooting Ka band.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100Daily
Comparing my Redline and V1 - I am just not seeing any real Redline advantage in fact the opposite is often the case and the V1 will many times have the better range (I have Ka guard disabled).
That is whether either is On or Off BTW so forget the previous "interference" excuse - I like it when I find a CHP writing a ticket who has also left his Ka band radar turned on. This happened twice just recently and I was able to make multiple passes with both detectors on and then each one on individually. I found NO REAL DIFFERENCE whether the other detector was on or not.
So I am just not getting this Redline interference excuse at all. Sorry Mr. Escort!
I do sometimes get to see who are running the cheap radar detectors with V1's Ka guard turned off but I'd rather have that situation than potentially miss a CHP using I/O or Q/T.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varactor
I can think of a couple.
1) I will pay a little more money so I do not have to deal with a company that has horrible and rude customer service.
2) V1 philosophy is to alert to anything and nothing as often as possible and you are bound to be right once in a while with ample range. Never had a problem catching I/O here in Texas, but maybe just the counties I drive aren't expert I/O shooters. I prefer the majority of the times my radar go off to mean something.
3)I can pretty much assume the cop is coming from a head of me, a bout as often as the v1 will give a wrong arrow indication because of wave reflection. If I actually got a ticket because of a cop speeding through traffic behind me to catch up and the hole time running or shooting I/O, then I deserve a ticket for being a careless driver.
4) neither is going to do anything here, give me a break. If you want to defeat laser then get jammers.
Get sick of the V1 zombies. if you want fast I/O and many falses with some arrows pointing to wich directionit picks up the stronger signal, then V1. If you want the same range, or even better on KA, with less falses and better functionality then redline.
Nice to see that you are gifted. There IS interference between rd's, it has been discussed over and over again. I've seen it personally between two M3's, STi-Driver and a Redline. There is interference between my Redline and my 980 and when I had my V1 (3.872) there was interference between them too. I'm glad that you don't have this problem.
Here is what I say, forgive me for being blunt but get the Passport 9500 and a Blinder. Why? Well the ability to lock out falses is a major plus in the 9500. And it and the Valentine 1 have adequate range to slow down before the police sees you. The Valentine 1 has indeed save me from 2 laser tickets I sh*t you not because the car in front of me was tagged and the beam splashed over. But Mickey has been riding the Valentine 1 wagon out to its last dime without any significant changes. The arrow are great on back roads but in an urban jungle they are probmatic and the F*cking ghosting can drive one nuts! If Mick wanted to truly keep V1 on top he would have offered a tech display, or a digital faceplate or a host of other features but he can not because he locked himself into a downward spiral when he said "No Planned Obsolescence" Because now if he comes out with a V2 he could be sued for false advertising. The Redline is a work of art but without the V1's laser detecion and the ability to lockout falses it could be headed down a short path as more states install the traffic control methods. In all it depends on where you live and where you drive the most. The V1 works for me except when entering major cities and going down the interstate in Ohio. I swear me and those traffic control radars are going to have a date with my bb gun!!
Maybe so - but at least on those two cases it was not noticeable interference. Each detector behaved for all practical purposes the same whether the other one was on or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaPro
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGoat
Escort Live takes care of this in a much better way ;)
It does? It doesn't for me! In fact, so far it's only added complexity.Quote:
Originally Posted by worldpowerQuote:
Originally Posted by OldGoat
Escort Live takes care of this in a much better way ;)
There is no need for them to include the arrows because we buy them as they are. And you got a small package stuffed with all kinds of stuff now as it is. I also suspect that heat would come into play. My main gripe however, is with installed units. There they have no excuse not to make a detector / jammer system that can show the direction of the signal and have a nice display system.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100Daily
It has been quite a few weeks now and I am still running both my Redline and my V1 together.
I have to add to this thread (and it should come as no surprise to anyone in the know) that some recent "experiences" have convinced me that the Redline cannot come close to the V1 when it comes to rear radar detection.
Especially when (as the CHP like to do here) a Ka using LEO is (sneaking up?) approaching you from behind on the freeway.
In those cases my V1 warnings have been vastly superior to my Redline. In at least one case the Redline did not alarm until the guy was pretty close to me - I mean it was "I could have gotten a ticket close!". The V1 had meanwhile been tracking his approach for over a mile.
IMO, good rear detection does matter! And the only way to do that well is to have a rear facing antenna.
Varactor,
You are crippling the performance of your RedLine by using another detector in the car along with it. Due to the RedLine's electronically stealth design, the RedLine is most probably not effecting the V1's performance.