How to get around digital encryption?????

That's if you can scrounge up enough computing horsepower to break the key first.

Units can be automatically rekeyed at certain times or they can request a rekey from the Key Management Facility.

There's a special key within the radio that is used to encrypt the new key used for voice/data.

Once breaking a key becomes easy enough for us, the average hobbiests, to do, public safety agencies will have already moved on to something more complex.

While breaking a DES key is certainly within our grasps (provided we have enough money), a lot of agencies have already moved onto AES.

one thing to consider is not all stations are going to go to the latest and greatest. Some will sit on something forever before upgrading. Of course your bigger citys might of course have more of a lead in the up to date department. We still got some police cars still using x band. Even though x band can be deadly at times.

I willing to bet uniden is trying to beat the system right now. I dont think uniden is going to give up selling radio scanners. I laugh at my friend whos into radio scanning. He tells me how you cant listen to the local sheriffs. Its all a matter of time. They he goes off and says its illegal to decode it.

I think the whole decoding and digital channels and scanner companies things can get pretty foggy. Most police stations aren't going to buy something spend all that money and then 2 years later buy something else brand new. Just for newer encrypt. Most likely they will buy something then sit on that for a while. But the bigger citys might have of course a bigger up to date curve then the smaller stations. I will say this much if theire's a lock there's got to be a key.

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Originally Posted by raresvx

I willing to bet uniden is trying to beat the system right now.

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Uh yeah.

Why would Uniden develop a product that they cannot offer for sale in the USA??

That's probably 95% of their market.

It's illegal to decode encrypted communications in the USA. Do you think Uniden would risk their business by offering such a device for sale?

Guys, keep in mind that if encryption was somehow beaten for a decent price, you would still need to build a device capable of decoding the encryption. Such a device could not be legally offered for sale in the USA.

At some point, breaking the older type of encryption will be easy. Many systems will still be using this type of encryption. You will just have to find the plans to build such a device (on the internet probably ), build it and install it in your scanner.

Right now it's even illegal to import a cellular capable scanner into the US. Try importing something that will let you beat your local police department's encryption.

I believe that much of what is being passed off as encrypted is really just digital.

At first, analog was the only game in town. Each "organizatinal unit" used their own frequency. Many frequencies had to be allocated and many times they were not efficiently used.

Then there was trunking. Trunking uses spectrum more efficiently and is a good thing -- cheaper and easier for a municipality to share is precious frequencies with all who need radio communication. Most of the trunking systems are controlled digitally with a computer, but the transmissions are still analog. I've heard this referred to as digital. It's just digital trunking.

Now I'm seeing (at least in Maryland) many jurisdictions using real digital. Not only the trunking control but the voice is digitized too. Few scanners (e.g. the BC 396T) can pick this up. Most of it is not encrypted.

However, with the advent of digital communications, encryption using well regarded encryption algorithms becomes feasible. There is one jurisdiction in Maryland that I know of that uses encryption exclusively. Also, I've heard that certain detective and special units use encryption.

The law says if a transmission is encrypted you are not allowed to decryt it (or even try to decrypt I believe). Despite what older laws say, the government does not want you to listen to everything. You can't listen to cell phones and you can't listen to encrypted communications. You'll get into trouble if you get caught.

There are those in the government who are enlightened and believe in the US Constitution. They know that the majority of police communications should be able to be monitored by the public. However, there are some (especially some police chiefs) who think that all of their comms must be protected. (Hey, it just wouldn't do to have the public know where the best all-night donut shops are would it.)

I don't know where this will go -- all government comms shut off to citizens vice the ability of the people to know what their government is doing. Some things certainly need to be encrypted. But which things those are is open for debate. However, the trend seems to be going to shut off our ability hear the government work.

As far as the AES encryption algorithm goes: if (this is a big IF) key management is done intelligently, then even a farm of Cray computers will not be able to cryptanalyze the encrypted stuff in any reasonable amount of time. I could go over the math, but most here wouldn't really care. This assumes that no attack is better than brute force for AES.

If the government in your area truly uses encryption then your best bet is to work politically to get this changed. Otherwise, you don't have a hope (and it is also illegal) to listen to these transmissions.

While they may be illegal to listen to the chances of actually getting caught listening to them even if you did find the keys etc. would be nill. I just feel as though going digital encrypt. is heading down the wrong road for allot of stations. Especially considering that citizens that might have been able to offer immediate assitance can no longer do so. Knowing most stations not changing keys often would make it feasible that the keys would sometime down the road would be found out. While maybe not know or in the not to distant future. But eventually this will become something that will be easy to find out not only that but people would be making allot of underground money using under sources to find out what the new keys are.

It's easy, you just need a radio capable of the system you want to hear.

The hard part would be getting it programmed, but it can be done..

Getting it programmed is easy.

Getting it keyloaded is hard.

You guys don't get it. Yes, we have a right to listen to a lot of things. What you need to understand though is that whatever you think you should be able to listen in on is probably not in your or our best interests. What about security. It's just like the post I read the other day about wanting a technology to tell where cops are via a sort of gps tracking. It's not going to happen. Sure, you may be a nice, kind, honest citizen, but what about Joe Shmo who doesn't like cops and has a grudge against one. All he has to do is hook up his gps, find the nearest cop, and BAM! It's kinda the same deal here. Not everyone should have access to everything. If we do, it's just that easy for someone who dislikes the president to decrypt radio transmissions from those protecting him, finding out where he is, or is going to be, and killing him. To think that who should make a way for everyone to have access to this information is insanity. Why don't we just send in millitary units with bright orange reflectors and send a gps invite to all those would appose to come and join us. Another good point, have you ever seen those idiots on COPS that hear about a police chase in their area and run outside to watch it? Every one of those morons is throwing themselves into harms way and making the LEO's job that much harder. Imagine if they could hear about every event going on at any moment in time. How many more people would be hurt on a daily basis. How many more people would get away with whatever they did because the officers had to let the chase end due to all the potential casualties. Think about it. People have a right to know, but there the idiots and the psychopaths you also have to worry about.