Another PA bill wanting locals to use radar/lidar-2011

[mikered30]

I was going to update the other 2 threads on the similar topic but they are closed, so I made a new one. Senate Bill 526 is found below (2 weeks old), pretty similar to the bill introduced last year.

Every year I say it looks more likely that this will happen, and I say that as most of you know PA is the only state the currently does not allow locals to use radar or lidar in the country, and it is bound to happen at some point. The press picks up on it, the same article makes it way around the web, a couple of police chiefs are interviewed, but nothing happens. We shall see.



http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/...r=0526&pn=0533

[radarrob]

I was told this one seems legit and will
pass

[SpeedUp]

Won't pass, never does. They already spent a ton on ENRADD and Vascar units. They aren't going to just ditch them. Hell PA State Troopers are still using the old ass Decatur Genesis K-Band Handhelds. Nothing will change. There will be speed traps everywhere if they does happen. The local cops are just babies, however I wouldn't mind giving the state police Lidar.

[supercowpowers]

Very interesting.

There are a lot of changes. The logic is kind of confusing so I hope I have this right. I'm trying to translate the legalese into plain English. If this thing passes I’ll write a more practical and structured guide that explains the rules in real-world situations.

Most importantly, LIDAR - allowed, by state and local police. (I'm going to be pissed if I have to spend $2000 to equip both of my cars with jammers)


Here are the rules, basically..
Radar and lidar could only be used by full time officers employed by full-service police departments in counties of the first class, second class, second class A or third class. (wonder what those counties are?) There must be signs indicating use of the devices on main roads at the county border.

Local officers must complete a training course approved by the PSP and Municipal Police Officers’ Education and Training Commission.


The same minimum speed rules that apply to non-radar devices like stopwatches and enradd will apply to local police using laser and radar. To review, they cannot write tickets for less than 10 MPH over the limit if the limit is 50 MPH or less, or for less than 6 MPH over the limit if the limit is 55 or higher.

If a motorist is convicted of speeding by nine or fewer MPH over the speed limit as a result of a local officer using radar or laser, no points will be assigned. I believe this would only really apply for tickets written in 55, 60 or 65 MPH zones because those are the only places a local cop could get a conviction for 6-9 MPH over the limit. (I wonder if they did this intentionally or just forgot to apply the usual > PSL+5 in 55 or higher zones to this section)

For 90 days after a department begins to use radar or laser, only written warnings may be issued.

There are some stipulations that could be helpful in court cases.
Local officers can only use radar or laser in locations that are not "intentionally concealed from the motoring public"
Local officers can only use radar or laser on roads for which a traffic study has been conducted. One more document the cop can forget to bring?

They’re trying to prevent speed trap towns…
If a department is authorized to use radar and laser, it must report to the PSP the revenue generated by speed citations. If the revenue exceeds 5% of the municipal budget, the excess must be given to the PSP.

End of the PA approved-devices list?
I'm just going to quote this:

(4) All electronic devices, such as LIDAR laser devices,
and electronic speed devices, such as speed meters or radar,
approved for use in this Commonwealth, must appear on the
International Association of Chiefs of Police consumer
products list, in conjunction with National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration (NHTSA) standards.

Does this mean they're doing away with the list of approved speed timing devices? Also, removing some extraneous verbiage, what does "[all devices] must appear on the consumer products list in conjunction with NHTSA standards" mean exactly? Very sloppy English...



Locals on the highways
Officers in "cities of the first class" who are allowed to use radar and laser would be allowed to enforce the limit on limited access or divided highways without a prior agreement with the PSP. I believe that basically just means Philadelphia? Do they have no real crime to deal with?

Local police elsewhere who are allowed to use radar and laser would be allowed to enforce the limit on highways with an agreement with the PSP.

[stano0098]

Won't pass, never does. They already spent a ton on ENRADD and Vascar units. They aren't going to just ditch them. Hell PA State Troopers are still using the old ass Decatur Genesis K-Band Handhelds. Nothing will change. There will be speed traps everywhere if they does happen. The local cops are just babies, however I wouldn't mind giving the state police Lidar.

I agree.

But it is all a matter of time before they do have radar/Lidar.

[WLH]

I was discussing this bill with a local LEO a few days ago who is a friend of mine. He told me the fix is in on this one but as they say you never know until the fat lady sings. I am considering and will likely install the STRi + before the end of this year. If this does pass it will cost me $$$ as I will also need to install jammers as well which I was not going to do. My friend also told me that so many of the local police departments are so strapped for cash that they likely will not have the funds or the man power to be much of a threat in the near future.

[mikered30]

Did he say why the fix is in on this one compared to past bills?

[dtraill27]

I would rather them have radar because I might have had a shot of avoiding the ticket I got last year from VASCAR. I would hate to see laser until I can afford jammers though

[WLH]

Did he say why the fix is in on this one compared to past bills?

No, but the individual I talked to is well connected and knows many of the local state officials. I took it that when he told me that the fix is in that means the bill was discussed between a number of legislators before it was introduced who had agreed that the time had come.

I don't worry so much about local LEO's having radar. As a general rule I don't speed in town anyway. it's the addition of Lidar that the PSP will be using that worries me the most.

[supercowpowers]

I don't worry so much about local LEO's having radar. As a general rule I don't speed in town anyway. it's the addition of Lidar that the PSP will be using that worries me the most.

I'm not too afraid of lidar because we have a solution, it's just kind of pricey. It would probably be better in the long run anyway if it would reduce I/O usage.

I still haven't gotten around to figuring out exactly which counties would be authorized. It sounds like it would be mostly a metro sort of thing so there might not be I/O in every dumpy town in the middle of nowhere.