IO Protection or Not?

[Mr Q]

After a lot of research into this type of "instant on" speed radar device, I came up with a double sided sword. Since the signals on this band are very weak, gaining increased warning time is a must...or is it? By the way, this mode is also used on photo radar (POP).

As to its operation, the accuracy of this IO radar is very poor (up to 10-15 mph + or - errors). In fact, it's so poor that one manufacturer warns of NOT using the readings alone in a citation issued case. But I'm sure many LEOs out there go ahead and do the opposite. My feelings are that some LEOs do use it as a "general" indicator of an approaching speeding suspect, believing that if this vehicle is RD equiped, his IO radar will not be detected. If the reading shows this to be true, and along with his visual estimates, he would then switch to another more accurate device for citation use. Of course some LEOs ignore the manufacture's warning and going to court with this evidence alone will allow the case to be thrown out.

So in this case, the use of IO can benefit both LEO and target vehicle. For the target, it will give an extra few seconds to slow down while the LEO switches to a more accurate mode, thinking the IO can't be detected by detectors because its pulse is so quick.

But there is a problem for the driver using the IO mode in his RD (if its an on/off option that's selectable). Leaving it on will increase the RD's sensitivity on this band (Ka) including false signal detection. So if you are not bothered by numerous false signals, leave this option on. The increase in RD sensitivity increases warning time with this mode on and that's a plus for the RD user.

Any comments, pro or con, welcome!

[jdong]

You are confusing IO with POP. The statements you mentioned are true for 67ms K/Ka band POP (e.g. cannot be used for enforcement due to inaccuracy of reading).

However, 16ms K band POP has appeared to be pretty damn accurate from all the videos I've seen it used in. However, because it offers no visual speed tracking history, it's still not supposed to be used for enforcement.

Now, IO and QT (quick trigger) are valid and accurate speed measurement techniques. Most radar guns are able to produce speed readings in maybe 1/10th or 2/10th of a second, and that's sometimes so fast that popular radar detectors will ignore the signals as a false alarm.

It's important to understand that QT/IO and POP are very different things. QT/IO can be used with just about every radar gun, and it's a technique that many cops seem to understand how to use, and the speed reading can be used to issue you a ticket.

POP on the other hand is a mode only available on MPH guns, and the 16ms variant is virtually undetectable by the radar detectors on the market currently. If the police in your area do not buy equipment from MPH, POP is not a concern at all. It's controversial here whether or not any cop actually uses POP mode. The threat that it poses to you is that a cop could be sitting there "estimating" the speed of everyone on the road, and you'll never get a peep out of your detector. Then, when he sees someone going at a ticketable speed, he just holds the trigger for another half second and gets an IO speed reading. It's pretty nice for ambushing if you're not good at visually estimating speeds of oncoming cars.


Detecting POP is a huge bag of worms. For most detectors, turning on POP detection reduces the range of the detector and increases the chances of false alarms. If your detector reports POP as a separate "band", it also causes short K-band and 33.8 bursts to sometimes be presented as "POP", making you falsely believe that a cop was using POP. The consensus here has been that since detectors don't even provide detection of 16ms POP (the most deadly form) and we're not sure whether or not any cop actually uses POP, it's best to turn it off rather than have it compromise the detection of ordinary constant-on, IO, and QT radar.

[Mr Q]

Jdong - Thanks for the correction. I was mixing them up and have been for some time. With this new info, I will turn off the POP in my V1 and check for any more advanced warning times of K, Ka band signals.

Is there a fairly up to date listing of U.S. towns and what bands the PDs are using? I believe this site's list is several years old and having a more up to date list can help me decide if some bands should be shut off due to lack of use.

[RedRocket]

Running a V1 w/ POP "on" does give exc. performance to catching those techniques used & mentioned above by some LEO's on Ka, & especially improved reaction times on K band !

However,as stated previously,you have little chance against MPH 16msec. POP by ANY current RD.

[RedRocket]

Running a V1 w/ POP "on" does give exc. performance to catching those techniques used & mentioned above by some LEO's on Ka, & especially improved reaction times on K band !

However,as stated previously,you have little chance against MPH 16msec. POP by ANY current RD.

[jdong]

Yes, whether POP ON vs OFF improves or degrades IO reactivity depends from detector to detector. There's been enough tests floating around that you should be able to find one for your detector. The last time I looked, the effects were negligible to slightly improved for turning POP ON on the V1 (but you get far more by turning Ka Guard Off), and on Escorts turning POP ON seemed to hurt reactivity.

[Mr Q]

Jd - I have tested my V1 with the Ka guard off and on and it does seem to give about a 10% gain in sensitivity (response time) with it off. I'm now in the process of testing the POP on and off for effects on that band.

Speaking of response time settings, I just today got my Pocket Radar delivered and testing it with the V1, the V1 istantly came on alert (K band) within about a tenth of a second after several tries. So, as the V1 scans all the bands (X,K,Ka) at all times, it still instantly responded to the radar signal. Having the radar signal so close to the V1 ended up having the V1 pick up a harmonic or spurious signal on the Ka band, which the V1 showed with the Ka signal present but the K band LED was blinking - showing that the K signal was the real threat. Another important plus for the V1 !

[Buckdarma]

Jd - I have tested my V1 with the Ka guard off and on and it does seem to give about a 10% gain in sensitivity (response time) with it off. I'm now in the process of testing the POP on and off for effects on that band.

Speaking of response time settings, I just today got my Pocket Radar delivered and testing it with the V1, the V1 istantly came on alert (K band) within about a tenth of a second after several tries. So, as the V1 scans all the bands (X,K,Ka) at all times, it still instantly responded to the radar signal. Having the radar signal so close to the V1 ended up having the V1 pick up a harmonic or spurious signal on the Ka band, which the V1 showed with the Ka signal present but the K band LED was blinking - showing that the K signal was the real threat. Another important plus for the V1 !

look up the FDD id number on the back of the pocket radar unit

there is a world of info there when you just type in the fcc id

[Buckdarma]

Jd - I have tested my V1 with the Ka guard off and on and it does seem to give about a 10% gain in sensitivity (response time) with it off. I'm now in the process of testing the POP on and off for effects on that band.

Speaking of response time settings, I just today got my Pocket Radar delivered and testing it with the V1, the V1 istantly came on alert (K band) within about a tenth of a second after several tries. So, as the V1 scans all the bands (X,K,Ka) at all times, it still instantly responded to the radar signal. Having the radar signal so close to the V1 ended up having the V1 pick up a harmonic or spurious signal on the Ka band, which the V1 showed with the Ka signal present but the K band LED was blinking - showing that the K signal was the real threat. Another important plus for the V1 !

look up the FDD id number on the back of the pocket radar unit

there is a world of info there when you just type in the fcc id

[RedRocket]

@Mr Q - Important advantage to consider regarding POP but not mentioned yet is slightly improved reaction time for 35.5 & 33.8 GHz Ka-band & the much improved performance on K-band b/c of those extra 5 sweeps turning POP "ON" gives you on this band.This makes the V1 lightning fast in reacting to I/O.