Remote installation antenna orientation?

[RedRocket]

Horizontal polarization is much better suited for creating a VERY NARROW or tightly focused beam in the horizontal plane (the one we drive on). This is why the engineers that actually design photo radars (like the AGD340 used in the RedFlex) chose a horizontally polarized patch array antenna. The patch array on the AGD340 is very wide antenna which helps keeps the beam very tight for more precise target discrimination across traffic. As with the pyramidal horn, the wider the antenna the more focused the antenna's lobe pattern. A narrow patch array or narrow horn (such as with the V1's rear horn) the wider the lobe pattern. So the point about the V1's rear horn doing a better job of detecting the RedFlex I could believe since that radar is specifically designed to operate off-axis (22 degrees) from the direction of traffic or more specifically targeted across the road.

Here is a good animation of how the Redflex (AGD340) operates.

Be aware that polarization plays no role whatsoever in the formation of the narrow main Lobe radiated from this antenna. It is solely determined by the physical arrangement & number of the ant. elements in total. The shape & widths of the Lobe is the result of "Stacking" in the Vert/Horiz planes of the numerous Patchs in each & additionally the phase angles of r.f. current being delivered to each element via the Feedlines.

What role Horiz. polarization would play in this case is quick attenuation of the radar wave over multiple wavelengths distance from the source, & also depending on the dielectric constant of the earth it's propagating over. Az soil is sandy & dry...very lossy .

This Phased-Array consists of 2 antenna Principles for beam formation compression:
A "Colinear Array" consisting of 6-Broadside Arrays stacked one over the other in the Vertical plane.
A "Broadside Array" consisting of 30 Patch elements side-by-side in the Horiz. plane. This arrangement is specifically why the narrow beam formed is only 5 degrees in width. Yes, the beam is compressed in both planes but far more in the Horiz. direction width for obvious reasons of singling out individual vehicles to flash photo & record for citations.

[RedRocket]

In answer to the above question, when I rotate a unit on its axis between horizontal and vertical polarization against a radar unit with no dominate polarization, I have no differences in the lab. - an anechoic chamber or a room lined w/ tin foil as a Faraday shield ?

When I test this in the field, I do not experience a noticeable difference. Keep in mind that in Mass, I have never received a warning with any brand of radar detector greater than 1 mile.

**When testing against a polarized radar gun, the difference in rotating the unit's polarization can be significant. The Whistler 17G models on Ka suffer a 6-12db loss due to polarization. Other well known brands I have tested suffer a 24db loss. K band losses are even greater.

** Spot on & falls in line w/ the averaged Standard rule-of-thumb for Cross-Polarization of the Space Wave = 9db.

[nine_c1]

Be aware that polarization plays no role whatsoever in the formation of the narrow main Lobe radiated from this antenna. It is solely determined by the physical arrangement & number of the ant. elements in total. The shape & widths of the Lobe is the result of "Stacking" in the Vert/Horiz planes of the numerous Patchs in each & additionally the phase angles of r.f. current being delivered to each element via the Feedlines.

What role Horiz. polarization would play in this case is quick attenuation of the radar wave over multiple wavelengths distance from the source, & also depending on the dielectric constant of the earth it's propagating over. Az soil is sandy & dry...very lossy .

This Phased-Array consists of 2 antenna Principles for beam formation compression:
A "Colinear Array" consisting of 6-Broadside Arrays stacked one over the other in the Vertical plane.
A "Broadside Array" consisting of 30 Patch elements side-by-side in the Horiz. plane. This arrangement is specifically why the narrow beam formed is only 5 degrees in width. Yes, the beam is compressed in both planes but far more in the Horiz. direction width for obvious reasons of singling out individual vehicles to flash photo & record for citations.

I understand where you are coming from Red, and technically you are correct (you know, I know, you know you are), the physical design of the antenna is what determines the lobe pattern.....wide vs. narrow.

But we also both know that a Vertically polarized signal radiates in the horizontal plane and concentrates it's energy there while a horizontally polarized signal radiates in the vertical plane getting cut off by the ground on one side and radiating uselessly into the ionosphere on the other.....ie. much of it's energy is wasted in terms of being an efficient ground to ground radar.

Likewise, the Veritical components of a Circularly polarized signal will travel further near the ground than it's horizontal components and this is why we hunt for those vertical components. Orienting a vertically polarized horn for horizontal polarity is simply no good outside the lab where the ground and other obstructions over distance will suck the life out of those horizontally polarized waves quickly.

I'm really not debating antenna design, but rather some folks inaccurate impressions that Vertical vs Horiztonal really doesn't matter when the source itself is Circularly polarized. It certainly does out here where the game is played.

[CJR238]

Be aware that polarization plays no role whatsoever in the formation of the narrow main Lobe radiated from this antenna. It is solely determined by the physical arrangement & number of the ant. elements in total. The shape & widths of the Lobe is the result of "Stacking" in the Vert/Horiz planes of the numerous Patchs in each & additionally the phase angles of r.f. current being delivered to each element via the Feedlines.

What role Horiz. polarization would play in this case is quick attenuation of the radar wave over multiple wavelengths distance from the source, & also depending on the dielectric constant of the earth it's propagating over. Az soil is sandy & dry...very lossy .

This Phased-Array consists of 2 antenna Principles for beam formation compression:
A "Colinear Array" consisting of 6-Broadside Arrays stacked one over the other in the Vertical plane.
A "Broadside Array" consisting of 30 Patch elements side-by-side in the Horiz. plane. This arrangement is specifically why the narrow beam formed is only 5 degrees in width. Yes, the beam is compressed in both planes but far more in the Horiz. direction width for obvious reasons of singling out individual vehicles to flash photo & record for citations.

I understand where you are coming from Red, and technically you are correct (you know, I know, you know you are), the physical design of the antenna is what determines the lobe pattern.....wide vs. narrow.

But we also both know that a Vertically polarized signal radiates in the horizontal plane and concentrates it's energy there while a horizontally polarized signal radiates in the vertical plane getting cut off by the ground on one side and radiating uselessly into the ionosphere on the other.....ie. much of it's energy is wasted in terms of being an efficient ground to ground radar.

Likewise, the Veritical components of a Circularly polarized signal will travel further near the ground than it's horizontal components and this is why we hunt for those vertical components. Orienting a vertically polarized horn for horizontal polarity is simply no good outside the lab where the ground and other obstructions over distance will suck the life out of those horizontally polarized waves quickly.

I'm really not debating antenna design, but rather some folks inaccurate impressions that Vertical vs Horiztonal really doesn't matter when the source itself is Circularly polarized. It certainly does out here where the game is played.

Bingo!

In short running your RD vertically kills its range in the real world, lab tests and technical gibberish aside. End of story.