Time to End the Debate and Move On

[snoopyc4]

Ok, I'm sure we all have had enough of the grand debate between djrams80 and the veil guy. I think it's time we decide as a community who we feel is right and who is wrong. Regardless of the outcome, we all fully appreciate the time, money, and effort djrams80 and the veil guy have put into radar detector testing and real world videos of the detectors.

Djrams80 and the veil guy, I invite you both to post one response (one post) to this thread that represents your side of the argument. You may include videos or testing results in your post. Only one post; no response posts. After that, I invite the community to vote on which argument you find correct. IMO it makes this forum look bad to prospective newcomers and fellow forum members when multiple forum leaders (moderators) keep arguing with one another and even post a couple personal attacks. So, I firmly believe it is time to put this long debate to rest.

[v1user]

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[speeddemon]

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[djrams80]

My side of the argument is simply this:

The Veil Guy's comparative results between his Belscort M3 remotes and the Whistlers he has tested, cannot be duplicated using retail units.

That's basically it, in a nutshell. I have tested the Whistler Pro 3600 for about three months and four different Whistler SEs for at least two months. All of the Whistler radar detectors I have tested are pure retail. My encounters don't look anything like the ones he has posted on his YouTube account. They just don't. It's not close. In about five months of total testing, I have seen the Whistlers miss four instant-on shots:









and even one encounter where the Whistler Pro 3600 completely missed constant-on 34.7:



I don't know how long snoopyc4 tested his Whistler SE for, but he also documented two missed I/O shots in a short amount of time:





On top of that, Whistlers false Ka band like crazy:



and confuse X and K band:



I have many more video encounters where the 9500ci ate the Whistler for breakfast, but that's probably enough videos. Now, there are some encounters where the Whistler is somewhat competitive with the 9500ci and there was even one where the Whistler alerted before the 9500ci and I have shown these, but they are few and far between and they are always terrain-limited encounters, basically encounters where the landscape helps out the Whistlers by leveling the playing field.

Now, Michael B has sent many Whistlers to The Veil Guy for him to review, free of charge. The Veil Guy subsequently gives Whistlers glowing reviews and shows vidoes of them competing neck and neck with the best radar detectors in the world. When asked why he has never mentioned any of the problems that I have documented above with video, The Veil Guy claims he doesn't write about these faults because has never seen any of them. Now, I ask you, is that even possible?

[djrams80]

Ok, I'm sure we all have had enough of the grand debate between djrams80 and the veil guy. I think it's time we decide as a community who we feel is right and who is wrong. Regardless of the outcome, we all fully appreciate the time, money, and effort djrams80 and the veil guy have put into radar detector testing and real world videos of the detectors.

Djrams80 and the veil guy, I invite you both to post one response (one post) to this thread that represents your side of the argument. You may include videos or testing results in your post. Only one post; no response posts. After that, I invite the community to vote on which argument you find correct. IMO it makes this forum look bad to prospective newcomers and fellow forum members when multiple forum leaders (moderators) keep arguing with one another and even post a couple personal attacks. So, I firmly believe it is time to put this long debate to rest.

For the record, I am no longer a moderator. Michael B and The Veil Guy made sure of that.

[SpeedUp]

I think it's funny when these 2 battle, gives me time to waste in class while the professor is talking about nothing. I think we need to dedicate a forum sub page for them to battle on.

Or how about this...have a stealthiest car test...DJ's vs. VG's. Most PT's never get's to talk trash again. They get to shoot each others cars. No cheap shots either, like DJ used to do to me when I JTG that ass all day. Silly Toys R Us Gun.

Really though, this would be way better...all on video too. THE MOTHER OF ALL JAMMING VIDEOS.

[dtraill27]

Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking this myself how annoying it was to see it in every thread.

[fire65]

I don't know any of them, but I do put more faith in a man who puts up his own money to do a hell of a lot of good testing. I hear nothing but good things about Veil Guy and Michael B also, nothing personnel.

[4ringz4life]

Ok, I'm sure we all have had enough of the grand debate between djrams80 and the veil guy. I think it's time we decide as a community who we feel is right and who is wrong. Regardless of the outcome, we all fully appreciate the time, money, and effort djrams80 and the veil guy have put into radar detector testing and real world videos of the detectors.

Djrams80 and the veil guy, I invite you both to post one response (one post) to this thread that represents your side of the argument. You may include videos or testing results in your post. Only one post; no response posts. After that, I invite the community to vote on which argument you find correct. IMO it makes this forum look bad to prospective newcomers and fellow forum members when multiple forum leaders (moderators) keep arguing with one another and even post a couple personal attacks. So, I firmly believe it is time to put this long debate to rest.

For the record, I am no longer a moderator. Michael B and The Veil Guy made sure of that.

Bizarre. It seems like you back up what you say with video evidence. Anyways, in general it is really hard to prove a negative statement, ie, Whistlers do not miss alerts or i/o shots. As i understand, that is all you are saying. Well, that and they false too often. Why would anyone get upset about someone stating something that it is impossible to prove the negation of?

[Michael B]

Snoopyc4,

The poll is missing one important selection, are the both correct?

The VG has driven mainly around the north east and DJ has driven mainly LA, and I believe he has had made posts with and without video to Arizona, Las Vegas and possibly San Diego if I recall.

There are many differences in the nature of these areas that provide the results they did for both parties.

I do not believe DJ staged anything nor do I believe VG staged anything.

Dj continues to claim that VG is sunshine pumping and using hopped up units. I cannot comment about the sunshine pumping as that is a term that may mean different things to different people depending on their level of sunshine vs simply reporting what happened with enthusiasm.

As to the claim of hopped up units, that is simply false.

In the original blog done by VG for the 78 and 690 in June 2007 he clearly states the following

But, thanks to Danny and Frank of Cricket Ventures, I was able to get a hold of a couple of the latest top of line radar detector models that Whistler has recently begun shipping the Whister Pro 78 and Whistler XTR-690 when I traveled through Rock Hill, SC on the way to Atlanta, GA several weeks ago.

He goes on to make a general comparison the STi by saying

Is that to say that its performance equaled that of the mighty Beltronics STi Driver? In a word, no and it wouldn't be fair to Whistler to expect so. In certain instances, the STi Driver alerted with a significant number of additional seconds of reaction time to certain radar sources and often alerted to widely-adjacent sources of radar that the Whistler Pro 78 and Whistler XTR-690 missed completely. In general, though, the margins of difference were smaller.
However, particularly with Ka-band 34.7 Ghz, the Whistler Pro 78 was often within a few seconds to the STi Driver and, as incredible as it may sound, in one instance actually alerted prior to it by about 1 second with one particular Ka encounter! Furthermore, the performance of the Whistler Pro 78 and Whistler XTR-690 exceeded, on more than one occasion, the performance of the STi Driver on X and K-band when the STi Driver was operated in AutoScan mode; it almost felt as though the Whistler Pro 78's and Whistler XTR-690's highway mode roughly approximated the performance of the STi Driver's AutoScan mode.

It seems pretty clear to me that the Whistler is not as sensitive as the Sti but with the setting of Filter mode that he apparently can use in his area without excessive falsing see below as he recorded his impressions of its abilities at times against the Sti.

For some reason it will not allow me to cut and paste the paragraph regarding the Filter setting so I guess you will have to go to his blog to read the original story on the 690 and 78 dated June of 2007 to read it.

Now on to the SE and ci and STi-R debate

It is no surprise the ci and Sti-R have improved their performance when compared to the original STi.

The SE has also made improvements over the previous models.

What appears to make the comparison of the SE to the ci so close in alerting during the driving that led to the blog is a combination of many factors. Dj would have you believe that the factors were the mounting behind the vinyl bumper combined with a hopped up SE. The mounting of the ci behind the vinyl bumper certainly can account for some loss but so can the fact the remote is mounted much lower than a dash model that is on the windshield depending on terrain conditions. In a straight shot, the height is of little to no difference, but when there are gentle hills, and or other low restrictions, these differences can be quite noticeable. This happens to be what is seen daily in the north east and no so much out west. Dj has said out of 100 encounters the ci wins 99 of them. It should as the ci is more sensitive, the terrain is not as limiting and he cannot take advantage of running the lowest Filter mode due to excessive falsing in the areas he drives. VG does have the ability to run the lowest Filter mode for most of his travels with the disadvantage of his ci being mounting low combined with terrain limiting factors.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that Whistler has created budget-priced radar detectors that equal or exceed the sensitivities capabilities of these high-end remotes. I am merely indicating, with our real world encounters, that they were capable of alerting to Ka radar sources at about the same time and every once in a while before they did.

The STi-R has the ability to be segmented making it alert to a brief radar encounter that the ci would ignore and this STi-R ability gave additional warning time increased due to the circumstances

Had there been no traffic on the road, the likely result is that there may not have been any noticeable increase but because traffic can reflect radar sometimes to an advantage, all it took to allow the segmented STi-R to alert was a car rounding the bend in the road up ahead to cause that brief opportunity for the STi-R to see it and react. The ci would have also received the radar due to its similarity in sensitivity but its software rules would not have allowed the alert to be given to the driver
Again, they are both correct for their given circumstances and saying one is correct and the other incorrect is what is wrong with this forum and it is time that the I am right and your wrong attitudes come to an end

If VG lived out in LA, I am sure his results should mimic that of Dj. If Dj lived out here his results should mimic that of VG
Are we going to blame everyone for where they live and tell them they cannot write a story for encounters that actually happened?

I do not know if your poll can be modified to include a both are correct category
Voting should wait until both parties have had equal time