Car shopping for a manual shift!

[proudNMAmember]

Well, I have been out car shopping lately and I am a bit surprised to find mostly automatic shifts on the lots near where I live. What happened to all of the manual shift cars? WOW!!!

[hsilman]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=110078

[Audi Quattro]

what kind are u looking for??

[trainedmonkey]

amen, I cannot stand any powerful vehicle with an automatic, even with paddle shift they are still an automatic that will not do what you want. They are ok in suv's and such though... i like the cvt's better though

[DogGod]

You can buy my car. :lol:

[ltilaser]

I love the paddle shift. But, regular manuals are cool too. It just depends on what you like and how much performance you want.

[ELVATO]

I love my parents F250 since it's a stick. Fun Fun Fun :lol: It feels awesome to feel all that torque through the shifter :) For some reason, I dont think I could drive a car that is stick. There is a difference between a car and a truck that are manual transmission, right?

[SmaartAasSaabr]

amen, I cannot stand any powerful vehicle with an automatic, even with paddle shift they are still an automatic that will not do what you want. They are ok in suv's and such though... i like the cvt's better though

No, powerful vehicles with automatics aren't so bad. At least you have power. Gutless vehicles with automatics are the worst, the autobox sucks what little power is there right out.

No difference between a truck shift and a car, I mean the parts are usually stronger and larger unless you compare a Corvette to a 4cyl S-10...

[Flex]

I think automatics are great for daily use cars. Especially if you deal with any type of congested traffic at all. However, if we're talking Ferrari, Porsche, Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, TransAm, GTO....I think of those only as cars that have to have a manual.
I looked long and hard at a 2002 M5 before I bought my Jaguar S type R. I just felt that for everyday use it would be too much. I think that the newer cars with autostick, tap-shift, manumatic etc.. are great alternatives. Because you can still downshift to the sweet spot and downshift when cornering. I have two vehicles with autostick features and they're great for slowing the vehicle down when coming to a stop. Especially when exiting the highway. In theory a stick always sounds better on paper. But you have to look beyond that. A stick matters more to me when looking at signifigant power loss. Example, the 2006 mustang GT has 300hp. Not bad, but with everything else out there at 320-340+, I'd want that stick to compete. Plus its a mustang. The type of car you want to shift. On the otherhand, there are many mustangs where I live with superchargers added on and they are fast as hell in either a stick or automatic. Depends on what you're looking for.

Flex :D

[SmaartAasSaabr]

Meh, I've always had manual cars.

For example there is one kind of overpass I cross every morning and afternoon. Usually traffic is backed up on the side going down. With a manual gearbox, I go up the hill in 4th or 3rd, then cut throttle as I go down, so the car's velocity stays the same. The advantage being that when traffic is moving slowly on the other side, I don't have to slam my brakes like I would with an automatic. Particularly in the winter, that could cause a collision. In fact, it did. :oops:

[DogGod]

When I go over rail road tracks or bumps in the road I push the clutch it so the revs drop, especially in the winter is that bad to do? It seems like it would help with any losing of any traction or something.

[erickonphoenix]

Both my RXs were phenomenol shifters. But coming from the WRX which is hardly known for it's slick tranny, I was a little disappointed with the vettes shifter not to mention shifter location. Unless your shifting flat out at 6000 it just clunks like an old truck. So I always shift it at 6000. ya know for the comfort factor.

[ltilaser]

Automatics are good for drag racing. They feel more torquey and are easy to launch. They also save your foot in traffic. Especially if it goes uphill like on those metered highway onramps.

Paddle shifts are fun because they have the best performing transmission on a track and you get to choose your gear. You get quick shift times, perfect shifts (no heel toe stuff), and low power loss. Also, you do not have to remove a hand from the wheel. On fancier paddle systems you get launch controll. But, with the flappy paddles you don't get to feel the clutch and play with the stick.

F1 cars, for a while, had completely electronically controlled smg systems where the driver did not have to shift at all. In fact, I think you can order lambos with the system in it.

[Asleeper]

Regular plain old manual trans works just fine for me. I know what you guys mean by it being hard to find manuals these days. Supposedly the CVT's are supposed very comperable in terms of performance to a manual tranny.

[maxima lover]

Most lots have cars with Autos because that is what most people want. You can always order the car you want if your buying new. I spent 8 months looking for my manual Maxima.

I can't stand to drive an auto. I always find myself in dangerous situations when I drive one because of the unsure factor. I never know when exactly it's going to downshift or if it will. With a manual, I always know what type of power I will get in what gear and at what speed. It can save your life since sometimes braking won't save you, but accelerating out of the situation will.

[ltilaser]

I can't stand to drive an auto. I always find myself in dangerous situations when I drive one because of the unsure factor. I never know when exactly it's going to downshift or if it will. With a manual, I always know what type of power I will get in what gear and at what speed. It can save your life since sometimes braking won't save you, but accelerating out of the situation will. Modern automatics have computers which will sense what gear you need. If you slam the acclereator, or are stuggling, most will shift down. In fact many new cars have a system where the car can actually learn the driver's habits and shift accordingly. With an auto you don't get misshifts or stalls, you can keep both hands on the wheel, and you don't have to deal with shifting and the clutch.

As for CVT v. manual, the CVT will win. A CVT system has no gears. With no gears, the transmission can stay in a perfect ratio or can electronically choose its ratio. When properly designed, the engine will practically stay in its torque band when accelerating. Because the transmission does not shift gears, it does not loose power in shifts. It also lacks a torque converter, so it is efficient and there is little power loss in the entire system. This is why my non-aerodynamic and heavy scooter can beat my friend's sports bikes which are hundreds of CCs larger than my scooter and are much lighter.

The problem with CVT is that the belt is relatively weak. CVTs can not take as much load as other transmssions.

[Whytetygerwolf]

i love the feel of a manny. you can shift how u want, let out the clutch faster if need, u know how the car is goingto react. ive drivin so many autos that dont shift right, stay in the lower gears for too long, or the other way around. new new autos like 03+ are getting a lot more responsive tho, but i will always go with a manual myself

[ELVATO]

I like manuals cuz if it came to it, you could jumpstart the car with a little push(not that its recomended cuz it may cause a power surge)

Autos are convenient and if you are really determined, you can kinnda shift with them, but it's nothing like a manny.

Ive never ridden in a CVT vehicle so I dont know how they go.

[RadarRick]

Bloody manuals, that 2nd to 3rd always stuffs me up :(
RR

[p8ik8e]

i learned how to drive on a stick... then got another one... switched to an auto for about 2 months then bought a new stick... i drive in horrible rush hour every day... its really not a problem, personally i like it cause if you just leave a gap between you and the car in front of you, you never need to brake, just lets the gears take care of it for you... when i go into an auto these days the first 5 to 10 mintues of driving im trying to hit a clutch and shift the stick... it becomes second nature... and right on to getting a manual... i love em.... elvato, it takes a bit more than just a push to pop the clutch, but if your speedometer ever goes out you still know the exact speed youre going

[Whytetygerwolf]

Bloody manuals, that 2nd to 3rd always stuffs me up :(
RR

really man im quite the opposite, 2nd to 3rd is always my smoothest, like garunteed, fordive my spelling

[ELVATO]

I find it kinnda funny how I learned to drive: A Ford tractor that was a stick when I was like 8-9. I then moved on to an old stick truck at my dad's work place. Its kinnda funny how I learned how to drive stick before I even knew autos existed. :lol:

To me, 1st gear is my roughest, but once it's down, everything else is smooth :twisted:

And yes, you might need a little more than "just a push" to get the car started. Ive seen it done alot of times though. Just get a group of people to "give you a push" and your on your way :) Then again, these were older cars.

[SmaartAasSaabr]

Push starts can even be done yourself... Open the door, window down, close door, push the car up to a brisk walking pace, open the door jump in and pop the clutch in 2nd gear.

1st is always roughest since of course, 1st has the most demultiplication.

[xrs9430]

the way i see it

manual= fun to drive/ perfomance
auto= pratical everyday use with good performance

[A-TownNavi]

Bloody manuals, that 2nd to 3rd always stuffs me up :(
RR

when i was first learning, this was the toughest for me, but now, its the easiest. when you go out of second, just push it back to neutral and let it go, it will automatically go back to the center, from there, just go up. soon you will get the feel of it and be able to do it like its nothing 8)

[A-TownNavi]

the way i see it

manual= fun to drive/ perfomance
auto= pratical everyday use with good performance


it isnt just that their fun to drive, you just have more control with a manual, more options really. but yes, they are 100x more fun than auto's.

[TSi+WRX]

I'm one of those guys who loves to drive stick, simply for "the joy of driving."

I feel that it helps me connect with the car on a mechanical level.

Is this somewhat old-fashioned? I don't doubt it for one minute that it is. Similarly, with todays constant advances in "manumatic" technology, undoubtedly, in terms of repeatable consistency, I also don't doubt that a more automated system - one which eliminates my physical and technical shortcomings as a human, as well as my own day-to-day or even shift-to-shift inconsistencies - will "beat" me, unless I do each and every shift perfectly.

I don't claim to be the best stick-man. :P I've driven stick since I knew how to drive, but even so, I still feel that I am far from perfect. Not all of my heel-and-toes are smooth, I still botch double-declutch shifts sometimes, and heck, with my drive-by-wire throttle daily-driver, which is paired with a dual-mass flywheel, even though I've driven her more than a year now, I'm still trying to get my shifts as smooth as I've had them before, on more conventional systems (although, to my credit, I am smoother than a comparable automatic). But it's honestly this pursuit of perfection - a perfect car-to-human union, if you will - that keeps me enjoying a traditional stick-shift so much.

Each of my cars' stick-shifts have had a different feel, and that has contributed to their distinct personalities, and my personal interaction with them.

Sure, on a drag-strip, run after run, one of those automated systems is definitely going to come back with more consistent performance than I can muster, launch after launch. On a road-course, I don't doubt that if I could simply flick a paddle or lever and get a perfect and lightning-fast downshift or upshift, that I'd shave seconds off my laps. And similarly, I don't doubt that every-day, an automatic system of some kind would definitely give me a bit more convenience, if nothing else.

But in the end, it just takes away some of what I enjoy in driving. And that's why I begged and pleaded with the wifey so that she'd finally let me have my car with a manual (even though this meant that she couldn't drive it). :)

Unfortunately, these days, outside of super/hyper-cars, sports cars and sedans, and select "sporty"-cars or econoboxes, it's almost impossible to find manuals on the dealer lot any more. My Legacy, for example, in this year's mid-cycle product update, they dropped the 5MT option on the turbocharged station-wagons, which caused a huge ripple of disappointment and disillusion in our enthusiast community.

I fear that as "manumatics" get more advanced, this will just mean that traditional manual transmissions will just become more and more rare, especially outside of the super/hyper-car and sports-cars arenas. Even now, we're seeing more and more true high-performance sedans excluding a traditional stick-shift as even an option. :(

[Space Wrangler]

I used to prefer manuals but on today's front wheel drive cars, I prefer an automatic simply because of the difficulty involved in changing a clutch. On older rear wheel drive cars, it was a half day job in the driveway, now it involves removing the engine. I can get more miles out of an auto tranny than I can a clutch, so the major job is delayed, usually until I have traded or sold the car.

[TSi+WRX]

I used to prefer manuals but on today's front wheel drive cars, I prefer an automatic simply because of the difficulty involved in changing a clutch.

^ That's a very good point, and it's one that my muscle-car buddy reminds me of about every week! :)

[SmaartAasSaabr]

I used to prefer manuals but on today's front wheel drive cars, I prefer an automatic simply because of the difficulty involved in changing a clutch.

^ That's a very good point, and it's one that my muscle-car buddy reminds me of about every week! :)

Hehe, on my front wheel drive Saab 900, a clutch job takes about 45 minutes. Clutch is behind the radiator at the rear of the engine, trans is underneath - just pop off the plastic cover, push the pedal and shove a sparkplug wire into the pressure plate, pull back the input shaft, undo the bolts, pull out the pressure plate and clutch plate, insert new clutch plate, installation is reverse of removal :twisted:

[TSi+WRX]

^ Gotta be an exception to every rule, right? :)

[hsilman]

hehe yeah on my neon, the bellhousing and everything is accessible from under the car. Don't need to remove the engine to get to it, which is lkucky for a guy I know, cause he's gone through about 5 transmissions and a couple of clutches in about 2 years worth of..let's call it "driving"

[TabulaRasa]

I used to prefer manuals but on today's front wheel drive cars, I prefer an automatic simply because of the difficulty involved in changing a clutch.

^ That's a very good point, and it's one that my muscle-car buddy reminds me of about every week! :)


Uhh, your WRX has a longitudinally mounted engine just like your muscle car buddy's.

[TSi+WRX]

Uhh, your WRX has a longitudinally mounted engine just like your muscle car buddy's.

^ Wifey's WRX, and besides, it's an automatic. ;) :P My Legacy is quite a bit quicker. 8)

----

But anyway, getting back on-point. :)

What my musclecar buddy is poking fun of me for is not on the particular/specific car, but rather, that my car preference "in-general" - i.e. import "tuner" vehicles - often makes them more difficult in servicing than his old musclecars. :)

We're both car-guys, so we both take turns bashing each other (I love reminding him of how easy it is to change my old DSMs' spark plugs), but we still drool over each other's cars.

With the WRX (manuals), our local enthusiast group is somewhat divided as to how best to attack a clutch replacement. It's almost a 50/50 split between those who favor removing the engine, versus those who'd rather drop the tranny, and both sides make convincing arguments for their preferred method.

[proudNMAmember]

Thx TSI/WRX, you pretty much summed up how I feel. The semi trucks I drive are manuals but the straight truck I drive is an automatic. The straight truck is a Sterling which I am not fond of. I have driven a Freighliner and a Volvo straight truck that were automatics but the Sterlings suck. Audi, I have been looking for a small economical car and it has been a challenge. I had a friend ask me the other day why is it taking me so long to get another car. I told him because I prefer the manual shift. It keeps me busy and keeps my car under control. Don't get me wrong folks, there are some cool automatic trannys out there. I figure in 20-25 years then I will probably start driving a car w/ an automatic unless they totally take them off the market before then :x . I am only 32 years old now!

[TSi+WRX]

^ We're about the same age, I'm just heading into 32 myself. :)

I also share sentiment with you on the "keeping the vehicle in control" part - it's much easier for me to monitor my road-speed when I drive a manual vehicle, to say the very least of the various aspects of "control."

I furthermore also ride along with you on the thought that some time down the line, I may no longer have a choice but to go with some form of "manumatic" or full-automatic. The wifey is definitely getting on my case about this ( since the practicality of having a car she can't drive in our garage is rather, uh, well, impractical.... :lol: ), and like you said, technology continues to improve, and definitely, there's some way cool stuff out there.

Still, like you, even when that day does come, I'll miss driving my manual-shift.

[TabulaRasa]

Audi, I have been looking for a small economical car and it has been a challenge. I had a friend ask me the other day why is it taking me so long to get another car. I told him because I prefer the manual shift.

Stirling Moss is close to 80 years old and he drives stickshift. I got him on video 4 wheel drifting a base model E36 BMW 318i around a cloverleaf with 1 hand while reaching in the glovebox to grab a cassette to shove in his stereo with the other hand! :shock:

And I would get a VW Golf/Jetta TDI. 49 miles per gallon with a decently torquey motor. Insane resale values too.

[proudNMAmember]

Well, I replaced my Hyundai Accent w/a Kia Rio. It's not exactly the same as my Hyundai but it'l do for now.