How to Take Out The Trash

[Radar Roy]

Let me open this up for debate and a poll on the board and get your comments.

The Forum policy from the beginning was to delete any objectable posts/flames by any of our admins.

Now a few posters that have gotten their messages deleted are pissed and want to know the reasons their posting was deleted.

So I asked ADMINS to copy the deleted posts to me after they were deleted, so at least I could offer some answer.

One user suggested making a forum called "Trash Can". Instead of the post being deleted it would go into the trash can for everyone to see. If a user got three messages trashed, he could get a suspension??

Good idea, bad idea??

[edweird]

I say create and use the Trashcan area.

Either edit the message with a comment as to why it was moved, or have a PM sent to the poster with a reason.

Just my 2 centavos.

Ed

[brick]

Well, I haven't found any reason to believe that any admin has deleted a post that didn't violate board policies or, at least, basic common sense. And I read this board A LOT so I've seen many of these posts prior to deletion. (I can only think of one exception, but it was completely debatable and the admin was acting as he felt was right.) So in principle the admins should be able to just delete and forget. However, there will always be people who question the validity of such actions. For that reason, I think that it would benefit the integrity of the board to have a "trash can" area. This way the whole process is transparent and everybody is on the same page.

The only problem is what to do with things like links to outside vendors. Placing them in a trash can would totally defeat the purpose of deleting them. There is also the situation of "liability posts" which contain information or advice that could result in death/injury/financial loss/etc. (I've only seen one like this.) Those should go away entirely.

So here's my vote:
-Creat trash can for the majority of questionable posts
-Exclude vendor plugs/links as well as "liability posts." The admins could archive those in a non-public area.

[leepoffaith]

I feel the rules to this board are very clear and if people violate them their post should be deleted. If the user wants an explanation for why, they can always ask an admin for it. If it was deleted in the first place, why would we want it to be anywhere else, such as the Trash Can? Just get rid of it.

This really shouldn't be an issue. just follow the rules people, it's not that hard! :evil:

[Brent_Vino]

simply edit the post and have the admin sign off on it and define what was the reason for editing the post.


for example:




Post edited by Radar Roy for using foul language and abusive manner 6/18 4:46pm

[JTW]

simply edit the post and have the admin sign off on it and define what was the reason for editing the post.


for example:




Post edited by Radar Roy for using foul language and abusive manner 6/18 4:46pm

I'm concerned that a new admin on the forum may delete my posts because he/she has "bad blood" with me, regardless if if my post is factual or not. I think a trash can is a good idea, but who is to say an admin won't just delete the post and not copy it? You don't have checks and balances with this program and you can't track an admin on what he/she deletes. Brent is concerned that Seth is always deleting his posts. Seth has admitted to editing some of them and in other cases Seth has denied it. The trash can won't fix the problem. There needs to be some way you can track admins when they edit or delete a post, like some sort of log that can't be manipulated. If insantity can program a feature in the php program to log all admin edits that would be a good solution.

[JTW]

I could have sworn Brent's avatar had a picture of frank with his right hand over his left hand, not his left hand over his right. Sethy, did you edit Brents avatar? :lol:

[LiQuiDz]

simply edit the post and have the admin sign off on it and define what was the reason for editing the post.


for example:




Post edited by Radar Roy for using foul language and abusive manner 6/18 4:46pm

that should do it

[V1 Dave]

I like Chris idea but if it cannot be implemented then Brent's idea is best as I suggested that yesterday but maybe send a copy of what is being deleted to Roy first.

[LiQuiDz]

people are so addicted to this forum they even want to see deleted post 8)

[Radar Roy]

Ok, took your suggestions and here is what I going to do for now..

A forum called trash can was made in the Admin area of the site that admins and moderators have access to.

Instead of deleting a message, they will be asked to put it in this area.

This way all the Admins and Moderators can view the trash.

Figure that this is a good compromise that everyone can live with (I hope)

[sethy]

simply edit the post and have the admin sign off on it and define what was the reason for editing the post.


for example:




Post edited by Radar Roy for using foul language and abusive manner 6/18 4:46pm

I'm concerned that a new admin on the forum may delete my posts because he/she has "bad blood" with me, regardless if if my post is factual or not. I think a trash can is a good idea, but who is to say an admin won't just delete the post and not copy it? You don't have checks and balances with this program and you can't track an admin on what he/she deletes. Brent is concerned that Seth is always deleting his posts. Seth has admitted to editing some of them and in other cases Seth has denied it. The trash can won't fix the problem. There needs to be some way you can track admins when they edit or delete a post, like some sort of log that can't be manipulated. If insantity can program a feature in the php program to log all admin edits that would be a good solution.

I only remove posts that violate our rules. I am not singling out brent, there have been tons of posts removed for violating our rules. Usually we PM the person and say why it was removed, but brent has never responded to a PM that I have ever sent him so I thought why waste the effort :) . All the admins do this, that is one of the reasons we are here. I think we should try the trashcan idea to see if it cuts down on the drama

[T-T]

I think there is always a reason when Admins delete a post. There is no doubt that post hurted forum's rules or law. In this case it wouldn't be the best solution if this post appears at other part of this forum. But just thinking about... :)

[nvr2fast]

I think, in general, it is best to just edit out the offending post, leaving it in place as a placeholder of sorts, so we know who made the errant post, and for what reason.

For example, if someone constantly bashes and trash talks the V1, X50, or whatever, then I'll remember who it is and even if they PM me or post something else, I'll know what i'm dealing with.

[itisjustme]

On another forum that I am an admin on (not related to cars or radar) we simply have a deleted posts in the admin/mod section that they get relocated to.
This seems to work fine for our forum and if the posted has any questions we have access to review the post and answer why action was taken.

If this were my forum I wouldn't go beyond this(teach arein in Admin/Mod section). We are all adults here so the way I feel is if I post something and it is removed then someone had good enough feeling it should be removed and life goes on.

[theresa]

I think the reason for editing/removing should be given, but I think the idea of a "trash can" forum is just...scary.

If the poster violated the forum rules in the first place, then why shouldn't they know about it?

Why would we keep the posts around?

I'm a mod of another board, and when we remove a post, a private message is automatically generated, and send to the poster to tell them why the post was removed (we're required to give a reason) or edited (ditto - a reason is required), and when you view the thread where the post was removed, this is what you see:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/miclogger/untitled.jpg

(Apologies if the picture is enormous! I couldn't get it any smaller and have it still be legible!)

So again, I ask - why keep the post around? If we didn't want it in the section because it violated a rule, then why are we going to glorify it by moving it to another area?

[Radar Roy]

The post would be around for the admins and moderators to view. Also mantain a record of the post for historical reasons; ie: poster has 5 messages in trash, that way perhaps a ban would perhaps be due..

A message from me, when I see the post would be forthcoming regarding the message when I review it.

[stealthJamal]

I know some things are not accpetable and we have to have some rules for the board, but I think it would be nice to have the board uncensored as much as possible. Just my 2 cents.

[RacerX]

After thinking about this and reading some others thoughts, here's my 3 cents. ( it was 2 cents, but you know inflation).

1. I think a private Admin/mod only trash can of the full original message is a good idea. If a question ever arises as to the original contents, Roy can see the original message and go from there. Maybe include a copy of the edit done by the mod too, so Roy can see what was changed.

2. Publicly, the post should be corrected by the mods/Admin for content that adheres to board rules.

3. The poster should receive a PM stating the what's and why's.

4. If someone continues to violate the rules, The admins can bring it to Roys attention if it hadn't been already, and Roy can decide if a temp or permanent ban is in order.

Now beyond that, here's my opinion on something i'd like to see.
First, i think it's great that Roy gives this place the lattitude he does for free expressions. This is by far one of the most "open" places i've been. Other places are much more strict on the slightest "outspoken" opinion by people.
The double edged sword of that is the abuse several people have shown with it.
So many threads have gone from a simple question or opinion/observation by someone, and the next thing you know, it's a 3 page thread full of arguing. This needs to stop.
All it does is detract potential new members and possible business from Roy. Someone stops in to "check things out" and sees nothing but arguing, and they won't bother to stick around and actually see all the good this place has to offer. Also they will then take any potential business elsewhere, since they won't feel any loyalty to this place.

It's one thing to offer an opinion, good or bad on a product, but it's another to then tell others they should have bought this, or should have done that. Then start talking "trash" to/about each other.

The biggest example of this is the my detectors better than yours. How old is that one :roll:

Here's an idea for a sticky in the main Radar Detector conference. This will hopefully keep newbies from asking the same stupid question and fueling yet another argument.
Title: which detector is best.
Let everyone post their belief (ONCE) as to what they feel and why. The rules would be simple. No bashing others opinions, other than quoting things they agree with. NO trash talking. One post per member on this. This way there will be no arguments. Everyone can say their peace (positively) and be done with it. Leave it open for editing by the member, in case they want to add to it, such as in getting something new and telling what they like/dislike about it.

Finally, i'd like to see the mods crack down on some of theses people. Stop it dead in the tracks and tell them to take it elsewhere. If they try and continue, yank those posts to the "trash can" and take appropriate administrative action.
This place is getting bigger by the minute, and it would make it a lot easier to keep up if one didn't have to sort through the b.s. to read the relevant stuff. If you have that big of a problem with someone, take it to a PM and argue your keyboard away privately.
thanks for listening (reading) :)

[sethy]

Finally, i'd like to see the mods crack down on some of theses people. Stop it dead in the tracks and tell them to take it elsewhere. If they try and continue, yank those posts to the "trash can" and take appropriate administrative action.

Only problemw ith cracking down on these people is that they complain like mad.

We try to supply an open board here, but with that openess comes responsibility from everyone on all levels.

We have gone ahead with the trashcan idea for the moderators. Hopefully that will put this junk to rest.

[V1 Dave]

We try to supply an open board here, but with that openess comes responsibility from everyone on all levels.
I'll say responsibility has to come from all levels.
How about the time an admin changed Brent's Signature column on his profile information page and tried to be funny about it.
I'll bet that admin was not reprimanded or even identified.

[RacerX]

Only problemw ith cracking down on these people is that they complain like mad

Let them complain. If they are that unhappy because they continue to get shut down, then they should leave. If they are getting scolded that often, then they are a problem that should be dealt with. Once they are gone, this whole place will have a better "tone" to it. This is where Roy comes in. He can either say let them continue, or flat out let them know, that either they adjust the attitude or they're gone. then no more complaining. No fuss, no muss.

This would be a duty/responsibility of the mods. With the priveledge of being a mod, is dealing with the bad. It may suck at first having to deal with these complainers, as i'm sure you guys deal with quite a few things the rest of us don't see, but in the end, it will make your job easier, not having to "police" so much, as people will see these basic rules need to be followed. And it will make it easier on the rest of us, who might like to participate a bit more, without getting sucked into the same old tired arguments with the same few people.

[Radar Roy]

Well we are working on a "Best of" area. This area would take the common questions/answers and post them there are read only. Then hopefully we can get "where is the best.." or some of the other questions aimed to that area..

[edweird]

Some forums have a FAQ (Frequently asked Questions) that is compiled, posted, and new folks are requested to read it before asking questions.

There's both Pro's and Con's to that approach.

Ed

[sethy]

How about the time an admin changed Brent's Signature column on his profile information page and tried to be funny about it.
I'll bet that admin was not reprimanded or even identified.

If you are refering to the time that I changed his sig to
"If I put one more thing about Sethy in my sig, I will be banned!"
I believe there was nothing wrong with that. He kept twisting my words and putting them in his sig to promote the v1, and I did not want to be a part of it.
I removed it the first time, and then come back to see he put it back up along with another quote from me that he used to promote the v1. Thats the one and only time I changed his signature.

We have talked about this many times in the admin area, that was taken car of. There was another time he claimed that someone changed his sig, but according to the admins no one knew anything about it.

[sethy]

On a lighter note, I do believe we should have a best of section. Maybe once a month we can put somthing in there that we all liked, maybe even send that person a prize if we can fund that idea :)

[Brent_Vino]

as long as admins are able to edit your post, and not be able to track which admin edited the post, this wont work.


certain admins feel threatened by certain members. who's to say that the admin won't edit a post first, then send it to the trash forum for other admins to see.. No one will have any proof. As this has happened before.

Admins are NOT held accountable here.

I am sorry but I lost my trust in this forum long ago.

[sethy]

as long as admins are able to edit your post, and not be able to track which admin edited the post, this wont work.


certain admins feel threatened by certain members. who's to say that the admin won't edit a post first, then send it to the trash forum for other admins to see.. No one will have any proof. As this has happened before.

Admins are NOT held accountable here.

I am sorry but I lost my trust in this forum long ago.

So you brought all these ideas up, tell us what we should do differently, and turn around to say they wont work?

My 2 cents is follow the board rules, then you wont have anything to anything to worry about.

[SETITOFF]

The trash can is a reasonable idea along with notifying the member in question as to why the post was moved/edited/deleted.

I like the new look....

[leepoffaith]

as long as admins are able to edit your post, and not be able to track which admin edited the post, this wont work.


certain admins feel threatened by certain members. who's to say that the admin won't edit a post first, then send it to the trash forum for other admins to see.. No one will have any proof. As this has happened before.

Admins are NOT held accountable here.

I am sorry but I lost my trust in this forum long ago.

Well if you don't like it, why do you bother posting here then? If you had "lost your trust" in the board, they why even bother hanging out here? It's obvious to me that you don't hate it here as much as make it seem.

All the admins do a great job and Roy does his best to monitor them. Follow the rules and don't be an a$$ and you won't have a problem.

I can not stand people that whine and complain yet STAY in the forum. If you do not like it, LEAVE.

[Brent_Vino]

I am here to keep certain people honest.

[JTW]

I am here to keep certain people honest.

I'm here for the same reason.

[JTW]

Well we are working on a "Best of" area. This area would take the common questions/answers and post them there are read only. Then hopefully we can get "where is the best.." or some of the other questions aimed to that area..

With more and more radar detector and jammer reviews coming out the "best of" area could quickly become old news and those old threads may not represent the latest evidence thrown on the table, especially if new products hit the market.

Chris