K band door openers...Opinions please

[LordV]

Ive been comparing a s7 955 and a m4 995 today. I know your not supposed to run them together but I did at opposite sides of the windscreen for the most part. They did not seem to interfere with each other.

I have a question in regards to K band door openers. The s7 955 alerts earlier and more frequently to them. There are many occasions where the m4 995 will not even alert. The s7 955 and m4 995 alert at virtually the same time on Ka so, am I just experiencing better filtering by the m4 995 rather than a lack of K sensitivity?

I'd love to hear some opinions.

[RW'07]

I don't own either one but to let you know that you get a K false alert when the store (or bank) door is closed and a more powerful (further away) K false alert when the door opens-up, so if you wanna compare you RDs on this very issue you gotta make sure that you go for the store door closed or for the store door open, do not mix an open door with a closed one :wink:

[LordV]

I don't own either one but to let you know that you get a K false alert when the store (or bank) door is closed and a more powerful (further away) K false alert when the door opens-up, so if you wanna compare you RDs on this very issue you gotta make sure that you go for the store door closed or for the store door open, do not mix an open door with a closed one :wink:

Both detectors were on simultaneuosly, so it should have been an equal test. I know, don't run them together, but I found locations on the windscreen where they did not false each other. The m4 995 appears better at filtering. I just don't know if I am seeing that or lesser K sensitivity. That's what I would really like to know.

[CJR238]

See my below quote and explanation about the M4 horn on the 9500I. I feel the M4 horn is designed to filter better than any previous horn by incorporating Cosine error/effect: *** http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=29245&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15


As we all know the 9500I has some unbelievable filtering of false alerts, and some people find Highway mode to be Farley quiet as well, even though Highway mode has full sensitivity.
In "H" mode there is no filtering.
In "C" mode there is strong filtering of weak X & K band signals.
In "A" mode at 15mph and less its in city mode and at 15mph to 55 there is a brief delay (less than a second) to see if there are any matching/pairs radar, like in/out door falsies. At approximately 55 and above there is no filtering/sampling at all.
The end result would be under 15mph city sensitivity, 16-55 1/2 second delay if a paired signal is found, and 55 and above no filtering at all.

In a nut shell "A" mode works just like the "A" mode in the 8500x50 from 16mph trough 55mph.

The one big addition that i beleve Escort did to inhance the above is the horn on the 9500I is designed to help filter out those useless off axis falses. The 9500I has very good sensitivity but on signals passed 35 degrees the sensitivity starts to decrease(detection range is not affected and that’s also why “H” mode is still quiet). The horn actually takes into account for “Cosine error/effect” any radar more than 40 degrees off axis will show less than 80% of your speed so this is considered a low threat. For example if you are going 70 in a 55 zone and the LEO’s radar is 40 degrees off axis, his radar will show only 56mph.
This dramatically reduces the falses from automatic doors without sacrificing real threat detection range.


http://copradar.com/preview/chapt4/f4d1d4.gif

http://copradar.com/preview/chapt4/f4d1d1.gif

Just some notes and observations.

[LordV]

Very interesting CJR, thank you. The quietness of this m4 995 is astounding, yet hard to get used to when your used to all the K band falses. It gives you an "impression" of insensitivity. Excellent info.


One question. In the latest testing the 9500i performed better than the v995 yet the both use the m4. Does the inversion of the horn on the 9500i allow for better detection range since the flare is facing downward? I have read MEM-Tek indicating this.

[jimbonzzz]

These are the facts:

- The signals from motion sensors are, for all practical purposes, electronically identical to police radar.

- The detectors do not have any methods at their disposal to electronically tell the difference between a motion sensor or police radar based on the signal.

- A detector that consistently gets more range against motion sensors will get consistently more range against police radar.

So, assuming that you ran them both in Highway mode, the 955 is more sensitive.


One question. In the latest testing the 9500i performed better than the v995 yet the both use the m4. Does the inversion of the horn on the 9500i allow for better detection range since the flare is facing downward? I have read MEM-Tek indicating this.

No, MEM-TEK is full of it. Don't make the mistake of being misled by him. It's great that he likes to think "outside the box". But he likes to make up radical theories for why things work the way they do (and use technical words to try and explain them) but more often than not he's just plain wrong. His signature and avatar are there for a reason.

Although the 9500i and the V995 both use M4's, the "Escort M4" is a different animal than the "Beltronics M4", and a different FCC number. Word has it that the Escort version has been refined a bit more than the Beltronics version, which is why newer 9500i's are performing better than some of the Beltronics M4's.

[CJR238]

Very interesting CJR, thank you. The quietness of this m4 995 is astounding, yet hard to get used to when your used to all the K band falses. It gives you an "impression" of insensitivity. Excellent info.
Yes I find it to be an interesting theory, if you find your alert warning distance to be fine think of it as your “detection range” not “sensitivity”. Sensitivity is for girls, detection range is for Men. :wink:


One question. In the latest testing the 9500i performed better than the v995 yet the both use the m4. Does the inversion of the horn on the 9500i allow for better detection range since the flare is facing downward? I have read MEM-Tek indicating this.

The inversion of the horn will probably have very little to do with added detection range, it’s more likely the refinements to the 9500I.
But I would definitely prefer the flare facing downward based simply on the logic: you will get more radar signals/reflections from front, sides and ground. It’s unlikely to get any reflections from the sky or a passing plain. Ultimately the V1's full horn is best for "sensitivity".



- The detectors do not have any methods at their disposal to electronically tell the difference between a motion sensor or police radar based on the signal.
.
My theory is more mechanical, im finding it hard to explain but maybe you can get where im coming from.
Signals from motion sensors are, in most cases off axis from the side of the road, not sitting in the middle of the road facing you or very strong. So by just shaving a little off axis you maintain detection range with creating less falses.
Most falses will alert your RD for a couple hundred feet when you are near them because they are usually over 40 degrees shooting across the road. Now if theirs a LEO off axis down the road you will pick up his signal much, much farther. Even if he’s 40 degrees off axis he’s so far down the road when you receive his signal he's essentially only 10 degrees off axis.

[ziddey]

When I mixed breeds of radar detectors (whistler de1730 and x50), both were severely blinded. But your's might be more of a like to like comparo, so hopefully, any blinding will be mutual (although horn differences may come into play).

That said, I don't have my x50s7 around to do comparisons with my 940m4. I can definitely say alertness to door openers is far far far less on the 940m4. I can't really speak about actual encounters, but at the very least, I feel like the 940m4 psychologically feels like it's less acute as well.

[LordV]

These are the facts:

- The signals from motion sensors are, for all practical purposes, electronically identical to police radar.

- The detectors do not have any methods at their disposal to electronically tell the difference between a motion sensor or police radar based on the signal.

- A detector that consistently gets more range against motion sensors will get consistently more range against police radar.

So, assuming that you ran them both in Highway mode, the 955 is more sensitive.

Thank you jimbonzzz, I respect and appreciate your input. This is the "assumption" that I was making but just was not quite sure. CJR's theory also makes good sense. This whole thing= one big pandora's box to me.
Does GOL plan on doing comparison testing between these 2 horns or is this a issue you'd rather not delve into?


I can't really speak about actual encounters, but at the very least, I feel like the 940m4 psychologically feels like it's less acute as well.


This is the dilemma that basically consumes me at the moment, it does seem less acute at times. I am trying to make a sound decision on a good mid range detector. The 940 does not quite cut it as I like the added features of the 995. That being said I am trying like mad to determine whether I should acquire an s7 995 or keep the m4 995.

I am going to put this to a poll and be done with it....

[ziddey]

These are the facts:

- The signals from motion sensors are, for all practical purposes, electronically identical to police radar.

- The detectors do not have any methods at their disposal to electronically tell the difference between a motion sensor or police radar based on the signal.

- A detector that consistently gets more range against motion sensors will get consistently more range against police radar.

So, assuming that you ran them both in Highway mode, the 955 is more sensitive.

Thank you jimbonzzz, I respect and appreciate your input. This is the "assumption" that I was making but just was not quite sure. CJR's theory also makes good sense. This whole thing= one big pandora's box to me.
Does GOL plan on doing comparison testing between these 2 horns or is this a issue you'd rather not delve into?


I can't really speak about actual encounters, but at the very least, I feel like the 940m4 psychologically feels like it's less acute as well.


This is the dilemma that basically consumes me at the moment, it does seem less acute at times. I am trying to make a sound decision on a good mid range detector. The 940 does not quite cut it as I like the added features of the 995. That being said I am trying like mad to determine whether I should acquire an s7 995 or keep the m4 995.
If you're spending up for a s7 995 used, maybe you should try keeping an eye out for s7 x50's in good shape for good prices. You'd love the x50 over the 995 so much I feel. I miss mine.

That said, I'd still love to try to figure out how to crossflash firmwares, since the 940/995 are the same otherwise. I guess when I'm at the end of my year warranty, I'll actually rip it apart. That is, unless I find too good a deal to pass up on a x50, in which case I'd rip it up asap and set myself up for failure :)

[GTO_04]

Jim is 100% correct. If it picks up K band door openers better, it will pick up K band police radar better, plain and simple.

I have 985 that has virtually the same K band range as my V1, and it picks up K band door openers just as well. I tried a 995 and it picked up door openers much less often than my 985 and V1. The same thing happened with K band police radar, much less range on the 995.

GTO_04

[Retaliation]

This is the dilemma that basically consumes me at the moment, it does seem less acute at times. I am trying to make a sound decision on a good mid range detector. The 940 does not quite cut it as I like the added features of the 995. That being said I am trying like mad to determine whether I should acquire an s7 995 or keep the m4 995.

I am going to put this to a poll and be done with it....

For the price of a 995, why not spend an extra $30 for an RX65 or an X50?

[LordV]

I did consider the rx65 but I was able to acquire the v995 for $259.



The m4 horn on the 995 does appear to behave in the fashion you describe CJR, as Jimbonzzz stated it is a different horn then is being used in the Beltronics units. That is obvious in GOL's test as the 9500i performs better than the Bel Vector series. I would love to see them test 2 Vector series Bel's with the s7 and the m4 on and off axis to see a better comparison.

The quieter ride has grown on me now that I can see and accept how the m4 is designed to function. I could not find any measurable difference on a real threat with the s7 955 and the m4 995. I am content now to believe the resulting performance of the m4 was the intention of Beltronics. I now feel the m4 is an step up in performance taking into consideration the range I get next to the s7 955 and quietness in town. I am pretty satisified finally. I am going to order the extended service plan on my 995 Monday.

[CJR238]

I'm glad your satisified with your 995, its a fine RD. :)

I think the main configurations of the horns are the same on all the M4's. but the processing end of the horn's are different.

[LordV]

I did receive an advance Ka warning in town this evening around a 70-80 degree off axis turn, the alert came about 50-100yds before the turn and the LEO was about an 1/8 of a mile or so down range closing. This is the first "around the corner" detection I have received. Very pleased.