Escort Upgradeability to Spectre Stealth?

[Regis]

I am looking at a new detector since my Whistler 1490 is getting a little dated (I have done very, very well by it though, we've been through a lot.. heh!). My decision is between a Bel RX65, an Escort 8500 X50, or waiting until Spectre stealth is developed in a product. I believe the Escort 8500 is code upgradeable, so my question revolves around anyone's thoughts on whether or not at some point the X50 could be upgraded to Spectre Stealth capability with a software upgrade, or will it require a whole new model to be released? Granted, radar detectors are legal in my area, however I occasionally travel to other locations where that is not the case, and the future is always subject to a politician's whim.

Looking at the Dutch workaround involving constructing a monstrosity around the detector, that leads me to believe it may take more than a s/w upgrade, but if the detector can detect a Spectre probe via a s/w upgrade, perhaps it could ust turn itself off for 30 seconds or whatnot like VG2 stealth?

I also cannot find any info on the RX65 being software upgradeable, so I suppose that may take it out of the running depending on what info comes back on this...

Any ideas on the upgrade process as well? Ideally, I can connect a USB cord into my PC and upgrade it myself...

Thanks for any thoughts out there!

[BiGeAsYgUy]

Get a V1 because it is the only radar detector with 100% upgradeability and Bel and Escort don't stand by their word at all when it comes to upgrades. People that bought the original 8500 can't upgrade to the X50 unless they buy a new one. Somebody on this forum never got an email or anything from Bel about his "upgradeable" detector.

[compu44]

Here's the basics-

Spectre invisibility is going to be a hardware issue. Not fixable by firmware flash.

The problem i've noticed with the detect-and-shutdown VG2/spectre evasion method is that it falsed a lot. May have just been the units that I had (both Cobras) but it was positively unbearable.

The software updates can't be done at home (big drawback)

The RX65 is software upgradable, same as the X50.

Before making any decisions, I would highly reccomend reading Veil Guy's detector review at
http://www.laserveil.com/en/ultimate-radar-detector-review-05/introduction/

[sethy]

My decision is between a Bel RX65, an Escort 8500 X50
Well, to me it really depends on where you live. If you live in a pretty big city, I would do the x50 with the multiple threat display. However the bel has the KU detection that will be out in the US later this year.

But like BigEasy said, I think you should really look around and try some people that have really "upgraded" with the BEL or the x50. Personally I think its a marketing gimic for belscort. However, I think that the upgradeing for the v1 is um... Well, paying 230$ for an upgrade is just as expensive as buying a new detector, not to mention you could ebay it and recoupe most of your losses.

[Iknox]

Get a V1 because it is the only radar detector with 100% upgradeability and Bel and Escort don't stand by their word at all when it comes to upgrades. People that bought the original 8500 can't upgrade to the X50 unless they buy a new one. Somebody on this forum never got an email or anything from Bel about his "upgradeable" detector.

idk about that Roy seems to get feedback from them alot and i do think the 8500 is upgrade able gotta check that out tho

[Radar Roy]

Both the RX65 and the 8500 X50 are both upgradable

And as for a statement that they do not make upgrades, that is untrue. Several clients have sent in their units for warranty repair, and while they had the units, they also upgraded them to the latest flash

[kai445]

I bought the extended warranty on my Escort 8500 X50 (extends from 1 to 3 years of coverage).

With the letter in front of me, here is a direct quote.

"3. SERVICE PROVIDED
A. ESCORT agrees to either, at its option replace the Product or to furnish labor and parts as deemed nessacary by ESCORT to maintain the Product in proper operating condition during hte term of this Agreement, subject to the terms and conditions contained herein. For models with reprogrammable software, Service will also include software reprogramming (model and revision dependent) to address new radar and laser speed measurement devices (North American threats only) as implemented within the terms of this Agreement."

Emphasis added by me. Seems to me its cheaper to upgrade the software on an escort than a valentine :-P

[Hessen]

Spectre immunity is NOT possible with a "software" upgrade.....IF Belscort (or anyone else) ever comes out with a longterm solution, a "Leak Proof" detector it will be very different internally from what they sell now. Just like trying to "ugrade" a 10 year old computer to operate like a P4 ...can't be done.

[Regis]

Thanks for all the insights... I haven't seen such a religious product war for a long time. :wink:

And the winner is.... I think I'll just hold tight and wait for this Spectre stealth unit that is rumoured to be released imminently since it doesn't sound like an upgrade of an existing unit will be possible for Spectre stealth functionality..

I may just pick up a can of Veil to make my current (and future) detector a little better against laser though, since the old Whistler still does a fine job against every radar trap I've ever encountered.

[stealthJamal]

That sounds like the best choice since you live in Alberta. You want to be able to use the detector in other provinces without getting caught with it.

[Regis]

I finally received a response from Escort about this. Although they were very vague (as I somewhat expected), they certainly did leave me with the impression that their Spectre-immune models are in development and will represent a significant change to their current detector architecture (more or less confirming in my mind the feedback received here that Spectre immunity will not be a flash upgrade).

[Radar Roy]

I going to go back to Brand X so I do not get in trouble

Brand X is a completely new unit that is being developed to beat the spectre and also has some other features that I cannot talk about. The goal was to have this unit out at the June SML test for the 1st review

[Ghost]

Little confused by that last post, Roy. Going to go back to "Brand X" from what? Get in trouble from whom -- the manufacturer of this new secret unit?

Also, I take it you mean the Brand X unit will hopefully be out by this coming June? I eagerly await the test results. As an aside, any chance that the units being tested can be tested one at a time instead of all hooked up in the same car at once? I'm sort of concerned that RD crosstalk might affect the results. I'd also be interested to see some results as far as how good the detectors pick up signals when another car out front is targetted, since a lot of times that's the only protection you'll have from instant-on.

[jimbonzzz]

Also, I take it you mean the Brand X unit will hopefully be out by this coming June? I eagerly await the test results. As an aside, any chance that the units being tested can be tested one at a time instead of all hooked up in the same car at once? I'm sort of concerned that RD crosstalk might affect the results. I'd also be interested to see some results as far as how good the detectors pick up signals when another car out front is targetted, since a lot of times that's the only protection you'll have from instant-on.

Roy is talking about the Speed Measurement Labs testing.
That is how SML tests anyway: although multiple detectors are hooked up at the same time, the detectors not under test are powered off:
http://www.radarbusters.com/support/speedlabs-2004/constant-on-radar-detector-testing.asp
http://www.radarbusters.com/support/speedlabs-2004/instant-on-radar-detector-testing.asp

They also do instant-on testing as well...
In case you haven't been there: http://www.speedzones.com

Jim

[Hessen]

Brand X....Brand X....Roy you're driving me nuts....Who is making this Brand X.....e mail me....I promise I won't tell anyone...... :wink:

:lol:

[Ghost]

Roy is talking about the Speed Measurement Labs testing.
That is how SML tests anyway: although multiple detectors are hooked up at the same time, the detectors not under test are powered off:
http://www.radarbusters.com/support/speedlabs-2004/constant-on-radar-detector-testing.asp
http://www.radarbusters.com/support/speedlabs-2004/instant-on-radar-detector-testing.asp


Ah cool. Didn't know that -- I just saw the picture of them all in the window at once and read something on Valentine's site that seem to imply the tests involved all units being powered on at the same time.



They also do instant-on testing as well...
In case you haven't been there: http://www.speedzones.com
Jim

Yeah, that was actually the first site I went to, to look up radar detector information. My suggestion was to have car A have the RD, and car B be travelling ahead of it. Car B gets targeted with instant-on, and then you check to see if the RD in car A picks it up. The testing SML did was for the car with the radar detector itself being hit directly, if I'm not mistaken. By the time you get hit directly, it's too late -- the detector will only tell you whether you just got a ticket or not. ;)

I'd also like to see some instant-on tests of a duration of only 1 second or so, since a video on this board seemed to indicate that the X50 didn't detect that. I believe the SML tests were done with a 2 second duration -- either that, or their results disagree with those in the video.

[jimbonzzz]

Ah cool. Didn't know that -- I just saw the picture of them all in the window at once and read something on Valentine's site that seem to imply the tests involved all units being powered on at the same time.
Yeah I just saw that thread I think...with the V1 Moments...

Veil Guy ran them at the same time and some people asked him about it. He did a "real world" review though, and not a test where precise results are expected so it isn't as big of a deal with his test IMHO...Also shooter2jim ran them both together in his video...

(Yeah sorry to point you to a bunch of places you've already been)


I'd also like to see some instant-on tests of a duration of only 1 second or so, since a video on this board seemed to indicate that the X50 didn't detect that. I believe the SML tests were done with a 2 second duration -- either that, or their results disagree with those in the video.

I agree, I think a lot of people would like to see this, the video rased a lot of questions...

Jim

[lordhamster]

I bought the extended warranty on my Escort 8500 X50 (extends from 1 to 3 years of coverage).

With the letter in front of me, here is a direct quote.

"3. SERVICE PROVIDED
A. ESCORT agrees to either, at its option replace the Product or to furnish labor and parts as deemed nessacary by ESCORT to maintain the Product in proper operating condition during hte term of this Agreement, subject to the terms and conditions contained herein. For models with reprogrammable software, Service will also include software reprogramming (model and revision dependent) to address new radar and laser speed measurement devices (North American threats only) as implemented within the terms of this Agreement."

Emphasis added by me. Seems to me its cheaper to upgrade the software on an escort than a valentine :-P


I had an 8500 briefly. When I bought it, a major selling point was that it was software upgradeable to counter any new radar threats/bands as they came out.

My Valentine said it couldl be upgraded.....

Anyway... Pop comes out... which is not even a different band, but rather a different "duration" of signal, can I send in the 8500 for a cheap upgrade? NO... you must by another.

With the V1, I paid $55 to have my software/hardware upgraded.


A minor firmware revision done upon servicing for warranty repair to me does not jive with the advertisement of "upgradeable to address any new threats."

I guarentee you that once KU comes out, they will sell a KU enabled X50 under some other name and make you buy a new one, rather than letting you upgrade.

[BiGeAsYgUy]

I agree.

[brick]

In the defense of the manufacturers, I think that a real solution to POP required more than re-flashing the firmware. This is the impression that I get based on the Valentine upgrade, anyway. It's likely that the old internals simply couldn't scan fast enough. Fortunately for Valentine they have been planning to do this kind of upgrade the whole time. You just have to pay for it. Escort, on the other hand, probably keeps costs down because they don't anticipate upgrades to the hardware. So it takes a lot less up-front to get one. So the truth is, based on the text cited by kai445, Escort is holding true to their promise. When software is an issue they'll fix it. When it's not, they have to come up with a new model. A little give, a little take. This is the yin and yang of the radar detector wars as I see it.

[SmaartAasSaabr]

The problem with the "upgradability" by Belscort Inc (does anyone know what this company is called legally??) is it only covers the software. POP really can't be done on software it needs upgraded parts. But Ku can easily be reflashed in - however it may not be the best Ku detection, but Ku is fairly easy to detect anyway.

Brick I love the avatar.

Valentine's approach is to take out the internals of the unit, and put new stuff inside. Belscort only wants to reflash. It's not like VR is giving you a free upgrade to the new spec all the time.

[brick]

Brick I love the avatar.



Thanks :D . This is what happens when I'm reeeealllly bored at work on a Friday.

[lordhamster]

The problem with the "upgradability" by Belscort Inc (does anyone know what this company is called legally??) is it only covers the software. POP really can't be done on software it needs upgraded parts. But Ku can easily be reflashed in - however it may not be the best Ku detection, but Ku is fairly easy to detect anyway.

Brick I love the avatar.

Valentine's approach is to take out the internals of the unit, and put new stuff inside. Belscort only wants to reflash. It's not like VR is giving you a free upgrade to the new spec all the time.

Well, we'll see. Somehow it seems to me that a whole other band of radar would be a more significant upgrade than just software.. i may be wrong. At the very least I'd expect an antenna's length/shape would need to be different to optimize for this signal. But who knows. All I know is that we'll have to wait and see.

I can say though that in the only upgrade (other than minor software fixes) that has come along, which was PoP, I'd say the Valentine folks gave a better option than the Escort folks.

[SmaartAasSaabr]

Well, because Ku is between X and K, it shouldn't be that bad. You just need to tell it to respond to the signal., But, as I said, it might not be the best performance, but I doubt Ku will surpass Ka here...

[Hessen]

I still believe that Ka will remain the biggest threat....because of it's wide band and narrower beam...harder to detect, KU will be the "Soup de Jour"
good at the moment but soon forgotten.....a flash in the pan.....but I guess we'll see what we're dealing with when SML tests the new KU gun this summer...Not much for us to worry about up her in Canada, cause detectors are illegal, so the Cops won't spend the $ on buying KU guns, nobody has a dectector....cause Canadians are law abiding citizens.....
:lol:

[jimbonzzz]

Ku detection might end up being pretty good...
Some detectors have the first LO sweep the 11-12 GHz range (Escort) while others sweep around 14-15 GHz (Valentine). Then they use the multiples of these first LO freqs to mix down the incoming signals. But, each harmonic is generally weaker than the first LO freq, so K is more difficult than X, Ka is more difficult than K etc, since the resulting signal after mixing with incoming freqs is weaker too. However, Ku @13.45 GHz is so close to the first LO freqs of these detectors, it would mix with the regular first LO freq instead of a harmonic, making the detectors pretty sensitive here. We should probably expect Ku detection performance to be on par with X-band.

Jim