veil and automated license plate readers

**dizwiz24** · 08-21-2010, 06:21 PM

I read somewhere, in the veil literature, that veil also works to block the automated license plate readers.

Is this true? Im assuming it must use IR light to reflect off the plate and detect its outline?

Ive always believed the less information you are out there soliciting, the better...

**raynchaser** · 08-21-2010, 11:08 PM

no idea, but why would you want that?

Unless you have something to hide, I feel like that is attracting unnecessary attention. Keep pwning them with LJs and RDs and let them think they're winning .. even with a license plate identification system .. but hey that's just me *shrugs*

**Veil Guy** · 08-22-2010, 08:29 PM

dizwiz24,

Yes, you are correct that Veil should be quite effective against ALPRS, those that operate in the IR spectrum. just be aware that in certain circumstances if your number plate can not be read automatically, that you may be subject to closer examination by a person (such as when leaving an airport parking garage). I don't actually know what will happen if such a system is used for automated parking ticket generating when such a system would have trouble reading/scanning your number plate's numbers.

**Riptide** · 08-22-2010, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by The Veil Guy

dizwiz24,

Yes, you are correct that Veil should be quite effective against ALPRS, those that operate in the IR spectrum. just be aware that in certain circumstances if your number plate can not be read automatically, that you may be subject to closer examination by a person (such as when leaving an airport parking garage). I don't actually know what will happen if such a system is used for automated parking ticket generating when such a system would have trouble reading/scanning your number plate's numbers.

Does one have to use a plate cover in conjunction with the veil or will a plate veiled directly block this as well? I veiled my plate directly and in PA I think they use those ALPRS on the trunk of some cruisers to scan plates of cars as they pass. Although I'm not a felon so the scanning of my plate wouldn't give reason for an alert to pull me over, I do like my privacy and that would be a nice added bonus for the veil.

**Veil Guy** · 08-23-2010, 09:35 PM

Riptide,

I too live in PA and I am getting particularly concerned with the increasing trends of our collective loss of privacy, as well, with technology being the primary "driver."

Although I don't generally recommend using Veil directly on any painted surface (this is primarily due to the fact the certain components of Veil can leech onto the surface), I believe Veil's performance directly on the plate can approximate the performance of Veil on a plate cover.

I suspect it would even be possible to treat a subset of the plate (not the whole plate) just around the numbers/letters. Perhaps even just three numbers/letters would make the plate register a different result to the ALPRS.

Since these systems are just coming online now, I really haven't had an opportunity to study or test their functionality directly. We have only been able to examine Veil's performance in the IR region, in general. Surfaces treated with Veil essentially appear completely black. As such no contrast in the IR should exist for the scanning mechanism to function.

So the long answer is...if you wish to use Veil on your plate directly, be prepared for some color leeching if and when you remove the coating (especially if it is a white background).

My personal preference would be to go to a store like a Pep-Boys and get a colorless clear plastic plate cover/bracket and apply a single coat to the outer surface.

If you have some more exposure to such systems in your area, please keep me apprised of your success (or lack thereof) with Veil.

We believe as more and more IR imaging systems come become available (that includes IR speed cameras/Redlight cameras, etc), Veil will prove to provide a much greater benefit than just being a lidar countermeasure.

...And for us, the nice thing here is, that active laser jammers will provide zero protection from such new technology.

**Riptide** · 08-24-2010, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by The Veil Guy

Riptide,

I too live in PA and I am getting particularly concerned with the increasing trends of our collective loss of privacy, as well, with technology being the primary "driver."

Although I don't generally recommend using Veil directly on any painted surface (this is primarily due to the fact the certain components of Veil can leech onto the surface), I believe Veil's performance directly on the plate can approximate the performance of Veil on a plate cover.

I suspect it would even be possible to treat a subset of the plate (not the whole plate) just around the numbers/letters. Perhaps even just three numbers/letters would make the plate register a different result to the ALPRS.

Since these systems are just coming online now, I really haven't had an opportunity to study or test their functionality directly. We have only been able to examine Veil's performance in the IR region, in general. Surfaces treated with Veil essentially appear completely black. As such no contrast in the IR should exist for the scanning mechanism to function.

So the long answer is...if you wish to use Veil on your plate directly, be prepared for some color leeching if and when you remove the coating (especially if it is a white background).

My personal preference would be to go to a store like a Pep-Boys and get a colorless clear plastic plate cover/bracket and apply a single coat to the outer surface.

If you have some more exposure to such systems in your area, please keep me apprised of your success (or lack thereof) with Veil.

We believe as more and more IR imaging systems come become available (that includes IR speed cameras/Redlight cameras, etc), Veil will prove to provide a much greater benefit than just being a lidar countermeasure.

...And for us, the nice thing here is, that active laser jammers will provide zero protection from such new technology.

Plate covers are illegal in VA (I'm living in PA currently while getting my masters) and when I used an airbrush to veil my tags directly it didn't look conspicuous at all (got about 5 light coats on there) so I figured I'd keep it that way.

I'm not sure how the ALPRS alert the officer to the licence plate scan, so I don't know if this is relevent but I had a very interesting encounter last night. I was driving up 380 N towards scranton, I think about 15-20mins away. I was actually doing PSL because I had a few things on my mind, and in my rear view I notice crown vic headlights. Car gradually creeps up behind me (clearly PSP at this point) and then passes me slowly but without hesitation, another PSP directly behind the first then starts to do the same. As the second car passes me I notice the ALPRS on his trunk. When he gets slightly ahead of me he slows down allowing my drivers door to come back align with his rear passengers door, and then he slowly gets ahead of me again, gets in the right lane and speeds up to catch his buddy.

Now what really happened, I'll never know. Could be a million things, but I like to think that his ALPRS was having issues reading my plate so he slowed down to try again. At first I was thinking this could cause some unwanted attention, as in I get pulled over because his computer thing couldn't read my plate. Now that I think about it, since I don't have a plate cover, the officer would probably just blame the ALPRS since its an electronic device (which are all prone to failure) and run my plate manually if he really felt like it.

**Veil Guy** · 08-24-2010, 04:14 PM

Wow,

If you are correct, this sounds pretty scary. Are you suggesting that the troopers are using ALPRS systems to scan every vehicle on the road that they come upon as a means to conduct mass automated checking of vehicles on the roadway?

If so, it certainly is a brave new world.

**Riptide** · 08-24-2010, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by The Veil Guy

Wow,

If you are correct, this sounds pretty scary. Are you suggesting that the troopers are using ALPRS systems to scan every vehicle on the road that they come upon as a means to conduct mass automated checking of vehicles on the roadway?

If so, it certainly is a brave new world.

Yeah I'm sure you've seen them and didn't realize what they were, they look like two black boxes sitting on the back of their trunk. There was a pic on the forum that stano0098 posted but now I can't find it.

The Pennsylvania Auto Theft Prevention Authority was created in 1996 to combat a runaway auto theft problem. Thefts have dropped from 53,000 in 1996 to 28,000 in 2007. Pennsylvania equipped 13 squad cars with license plate readers, and with the hope of continuing that decline in stolen vehicles, began using the technology in earnest in 2007.

"It would be nice to have them set up on those roads where we know they're transporting stolen cars," said Michelle Staton, executive director of the Pennsylvania Auto Theft Prevention Authority. "New York City is not far from the upper end of our state, and they're stealing from there and transporting through our state. If we could pick up on those cars, it would be great."

http://www.govtech.com/gt/273037?id=...l=1&story_pg=2