Blinder M-20 and using a splitter

Okay, i finished some tests today that gave me the answers on this question.

The Zr3 uses a splitter for the front heads, so that both will fire even if one is shot.

Blinders fire independently, so i decided to test the theory of a splitter on them.

Some time ago i played with a splitter on my slightly older units, the ones with the stealth fix, but before the updated ones with the 30 second test mode.

those seemed to be fine with a splitter, and i didn't notice any appreciable difference in performance, at least against an LTI.

Today i did some new tests, on an SUV that has no Veil, bra, etc.. and an M-20. it's about 6 mo's old and has the test mode option.

the short answer is, instead of 100' range PT's, the splitter caused PT up to 900' away. :shock:

I tested against an LTI and a Stalker. both guns got longer range PT's with the splitter installed, as opposed to without.

Anyway, just a heads up to anyone considering this.

i have some video of these runs, so i'll work on some at some point, but i have other vids i still need to do.

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Originally Posted by RacerX

Okay, i finished some tests today that gave me the answers on this question.

The Zr3 uses a splitter for the front heads, so that both will fire even if one is shot.

Blinders fire independently, so i decided to test the theory of a splitter on them.

Some time ago i played with a splitter on my slightly older units, the ones with the stealth fix, but before the updated ones with the 30 second test mode.

those seemed to be fine with a splitter, and i didn't notice any appreciable difference in performance, at least against an LTI.

Today i did some new tests, on an SUV that has no Veil, bra, etc.. and an M-20. it's about 6 mo's old and has the test mode option.

the short answer is, instead of 100' range PT's, the splitter caused PT up to 900' away. :shock:

I tested against an LTI and a Stalker. both guns got longer range PT's with the splitter installed, as opposed to without.

Anyway, just a heads up to anyone considering this.

i have some video of these runs, so i'll work on some at some point, but i have other vids i still need to do.

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GREAT stuff

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Originally Posted by happya$$

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Originally Posted by RacerX

Okay, i finished some tests today that gave me the answers on this question.

The Zr3 uses a splitter for the front heads, so that both will fire even if one is shot.

Blinders fire independently, so i decided to test the theory of a splitter on them.

Some time ago i played with a splitter on my slightly older units, the ones with the stealth fix, but before the updated ones with the 30 second test mode.

those seemed to be fine with a splitter, and i didn't notice any appreciable difference in performance, at least against an LTI.

Today i did some new tests, on an SUV that has no Veil, bra, etc.. and an M-20. it's about 6 mo's old and has the test mode option.

the short answer is, instead of 100' range PT's, the splitter caused PT up to 900' away. :shock:

I tested against an LTI and a Stalker. both guns got longer range PT's with the splitter installed, as opposed to without.

Anyway, just a heads up to anyone considering this.

i have some video of these runs, so i'll work on some at some point, but i have other vids i still need to do.

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GREAT stuff

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x2, It would seem if anything, both firing would help the system out a bit, but this certainly shows us otherwise.

My question now is what happens when both heads are hit simultanously? Do both heads activate and does it have the same negative effect if they do? That sure would affect the head placement.

I just bought a m-20 with an extra head (from RadarRoy of course...I learned my lesson) to place at the license plate on my f-150 and it places each head within 20" each other, so at greater than 500' the beam could and would hit at least two of the heads.

The Questions: :?:

Will both heads activate if hit simultanously?
If both heads activate, will it decrease effectiveness like a splitter?
Is the negative affect just caused by the splitter by drawing down (splitting) the voltage to the heads?

The heads are independent, meaning they will fire when fired at.

i have shot this truck with a lot of heads attached and the more heads the better the jamming, so there will be no problems with only 3 heads.

By design, it is made to handle up to 4 heads anyway.

Having all heads firing together will not hurt performance, since they are not inter-connected through the splitter. i had 2 heads on the back practically touching side by side and they didn't hinder performance. once i got past their range limitation they gave easy JFG against an LTI and a PLIII.


My guess is either a voltage issue, or perhaps when one is activated and sends the signal back to the black box to give audio and visual alert, it then feeds back through the splitter, activating the other head, but maybe blocking or throwing off the timing to it, so even thought both are firing, only one is actually jamming?

one of these nights maybe i'll take a camera and watch the heads fire with and without splitter and see if it looks like it's a power draw issue.


Either way, you'll be fine.



Some quick numbers:

Before splitter:
LTI - PT 149' and 89'
Stalker - PT 168' and 239'

With splitter:
LTI - 738' and 908'
Stalker - 334' and ? (need to re-check video. )


Now it should be noted that the above results were done same day, nothing changed or adjusted but the splitter.

That morning i was playing with head alignment slightly.
The day before i had done some base runs without splitter and got better results.
The LTI got JTG and the Stalker got PT at only 89'.
Not bad for an M-20 on a SUV.

I'll be re-adjusting the heads back, but regardless, it's clear the splitter affected them much more than i thougth it would.

So just say no to a splitter.:)

Thanks. Intuitively, I felt that was the case, but had no way of proving it. It is nice to have the pros with the toys to keep us informed.

f-150 4x4 white

Blinder M-30 all up front
Veil & laser shield
Beltronics Rx 65 ver 6.1

I would have bought the Ford from RadarRoy too...... if he sold them!

Seems to me that when you have a splitter set up it is only pulling enough power for one to fire effectively making both fire at only about half of their normal effectiveness. Perhaps if you wired it so that when one is fired at it sent a signal for both to fire. In other words, what if you wired it somehow to trick them both into firing seemingly independently and therefore drawing power from their own ports? I think this would be much more effective.

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Originally Posted by Cracker187

Seems to me that when you have a splitter set up it is only pulling enough power for one to fire effectively making both fire at only about half of their normal effectiveness. Perhaps if you wired it so that when one is fired at it sent a signal for both to fire. In other words, what if you wired it somehow to trick them both into firing seemingly independently and therefore drawing power from their own ports? I think this would be much more effective.

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Agreed - but how would one do this?

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Originally Posted by RacerX

perhaps when one is activated and sends the signal back to the black box to give audio and visual alert, it then feeds back through the splitter, activating the other head, but maybe blocking or throwing off the timing to it, so even thought both are firing, only one is actually jamming?

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Sounds plausible to me. Here's my theory:

The current Blinder transponders have four wires:

1. +12V
2. +5V
3. Ground
4. A wire split from the receive line, that send a signal back to the head unit to trigger the alerts.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6...hematicub7.gif

When connecting two transponders together via a splitter, all of these lines are combined, including the receive line. So, when one transponder detects laser, it ends up sending pulses to the other transponder's receive line.

If both transponders are seeing the gun's pulses, then the receive line ends up with two pulses for every one pulse from the laser gun: the pulse that was detected in that transponder's receive circuit, and an additional pulse that was "fed back" from the other transponder, which would be delayed and lag behind the other pulse by a number of nanoseconds or more.

The micro receives both of these pulses, and is either unable to properly recognise the gun, or cannot properly "sync" to the gun's pulses so that the jamming pulses end up in the "window" where the gun will accept a jamming pulse as it's own reflected pulse.

Result = incomplete jam.

As to why it seemed OK with the non-stealth units but is problematic with the newer stealth-fixed units, is anyone's guess...

Jim

Great stuff... this is important info :)