9500ci Custom Install Questions...

I'm considering a custom install on my Audi S4 Cabriolet but after spending some time on this forum I'm wondering if it makes sense to go with the 9500ci or maybe something like the 9500ix with separate laser h/w. Basic questions revolve around laser shifters and installation locations.

I live in Northern Cal (San jose/Silicon Valley area) so I think the ZR4's might be good enough for the job in terms of the guns I will likely run into but I'm not sure...any thoughts/comments?

Second major question involves placement. There really aren't a lot of (ideal) options with the grille on the S4 (see pic).

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...3-s4-front.jpg

Based on the manufacturer's suggestions and what I've read here you really don't want anything blocking the lasers (even just one thin vertical strip of plastic?) and based on a post by GOL you don't want to block the radar unit either :( If I go with position 2 for both laser and radar, it would be much more stealth and also better positioning period for the lasers, I believe (not sure about overall radar positioning in terms of performance). However, I'm looking at some serious chopping of Mr. Grille and I believe the units will also be very close to the radiator - not sure how much of a problem that is...

If I go with position 1 for both, no cutting for lasers but...are they too low?? As for radar in position 1, some cutting but not as much of a detraction from the overall vehicle aesthetic and...maybe performance is OK down that low??

Or, do I just give up on stealth for the radar, put in something like the 9500ix and then go stealth with the LI laser units? The LI units seem smaller so maybe I can get away with minimal (or no) grille cutting with these units which are better performance as well? I've also looked at the LPP units, which look to have even smaller dimensions than the LI units but...I haven't seen as much data on them and they look to be just getting started as far as US distribution and support. Comments, anyone??? TIA!!

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Originally Posted by Theopold

I'm considering a custom install on my Audi S4 Cabriolet but after spending some time on this forum I'm wondering if it makes sense to go with the 9500ci or maybe something like the 9500ix with separate laser h/w. Basic questions revolve around laser shifters and installation locations.

I live in Northern Cal (San jose/Silicon Valley area) so I think the ZR4's might be good enough for the job in terms of the guns I will likely run into but I'm not sure...any thoughts/comments?

Second major question involves placement. There really aren't a lot of (ideal) options with the grille on the S4 (see pic).

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...3-s4-front.jpg

Based on the manufacturer's suggestions and what I've read here you really don't want anything blocking the lasers (even just one thin vertical strip of plastic?) and based on a post by GOL you don't want to block the radar unit either :( If I go with position 2 for both laser and radar, it would be much more stealth and also better positioning period for the lasers, I believe (not sure about overall radar positioning in terms of performance). However, I'm looking at some serious chopping of Mr. Grille and I believe the units will also be very close to the radiator - not sure how much of a problem that is...

If I go with position 1 for both, no cutting for lasers but...are they too low?? As for radar in position 1, some cutting but not as much of a detraction from the overall vehicle aesthetic and...maybe performance is OK down that low??

Or, do I just give up on stealth for the radar, put in something like the 9500ix and then go stealth with the LI laser units? The LI units seem smaller so maybe I can get away with minimal (or no) grille cutting with these units which are better performance as well? I've also looked at the LPP units, which look to have even smaller dimensions than the LI units but...I haven't seen as much data on them and they look to be just getting started as far as US distribution and support. Comments, anyone??? TIA!!

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In order to get the best protection from the zr4 you would prob need to cut the upper grill area. As for the remote antenna it is best not to have anything in front of it if you can.

As for the ix and LI combo, that will work. You can mount the LI heads in the lower grill area at each corner of that area and you might need to cut the sensors are small.

As for LI support there are tons of posts, but ever since the Spring of this year LI support has turned around in the US, so you will have no problems.

The LPP has a history of decent support, I believe through mouse in Canada. As for its preformance against the Truspeed that is to be determined, but I have a feeling it will have problems.

I actually think the ZR4s will do a pretty good job on this car, since you live in the bay area. You will be up against 98+% radar, so the massive sensitivity of the 9500ci will be of much use. The laser guns you will be up against will be the PLIII, Ultralyte and the TruSpeed, all of which I think the ZR4s will do pretty good protecting this car. Here are the unofficial results of the 9500ci against a few laser guns. I think your results will be very similar.

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...t-summary.html

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6...2212098xh9.jpg

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Originally Posted by djrams80

I actually think the ZR4s will do a pretty good job on this car, since you live in the bay area. You will be up against 98+% radar, so the massive sensitivity of the 9500ci will be of much use. The laser guns you will be up against will be the PLIII, Ultralyte and the TruSpeed, all of which I think the ZR4s will do pretty good protecting this car. Here are the unofficial results of the 9500ci against a few laser guns. I think your results will be very similar.

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...t-summary.html

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6...2212098xh9.jpg

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I agree with DJ on this one..Moved my RX75 antenna down to the lower grill area right about where the green is and it's been more sensitive than ever.Lower on these remote antennas is mos def better!!!I'm only sorry i didn't do this sooner..If you don't mind trimming your grill you'll be good.

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Originally Posted by mrcllusb

I agree with DJ on this one..Moved my RX75 antenna down to the lower grill area right about where the green is and it's been more sensitive than ever.Lower on these remote antennas is mos def better!!!

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That's kinda counter-intuitive... After all, your line of sight is usually better from a higher vantage point. What do you suppose accounts for the better performance down low?

The key is that the radar signal comes out the gun in sorta a v or circle-shape . As it gets further from the gun it spreads.Once the lower half of the signal hits the asphalt or pavement,it basically bounces down the surface under vehicles and all..traveling further.The way these antennas are engineered,they just work better this way.Since i've moved it,i get my normal falses and actual k,ka detection alot further than before when i had it behind my grill.Even off axis detection has improved.

I'm of the opinion that having nothing between the radar antenna and the road is the key to maximum sensitivity. Escort says it's OK to mount their radar antennas behind things for stealthnicity purposes, but the truth seems to be that while it will still work well enough behind the grille or whatever to save the user tickets, you will lose some sensitivity. The question then becomes, "How much?". The answer to this question seems to vary greatly. Mounting your 9500ci's radar antenna high, as in happya$$'s setup is the best for maximum sensitivity. However, mounting the radar antenna somewhere lower, but with no obstructions is almost as good.

I'm with you on the signal shape and the reflections but...was the antenna obstructed at all when it was behind the grille higher up? If so, maybe that also contributed to the improved performance when you moved it down lower??

I think maybe I could live with DJ's ZR4 placement suggestions - one "vertical" grille cut for each laser down at the bottom corners of the grille (least noticeable). For the antenna unit, however, not sure I can get away with a just a single vertical cut as I believe that unit is larger :confused: BTW, thanks for the test summary DJ! I actually saw that info previously when I was researching all the useful info on this site and your tests are what led me to believe the ZR4's might just do the job in my location...

So, just to confirm...Is it safe to assume that the stronger LI's could take the lower positioning (Laser Position 1) if I went that route? And, has anyone had any heat issues with laser or antenna positioning? I swear if I place the lasers as DJ suggests the units will be at most 2-3 inches from the radiator!! Maybe heat dissipation is reduced/non-issue due to wind flow direction??

The front part of the 9500ci's radar antenna is 3" wide by 1 " tall. I just walked out to my car and measured it. And just about everyone's laser jammer heads are in the grille area with no problems. You should be fine.

Here is my recommendation, if you want to get a 9500CI. Install the radar unit in the lower grill in between the gaps, and see how it does. I would not cut your grill, unless you can verify the replacement cost before hand. On something exotic like the audi, it might be fairly expensive. For my Impala it was 25 dollars for the upper & lower grill used off of eBay.

The ZR4's are going to offer you, little to no protection without VEIL. My good friend has a S4, and has his dual blinder m20 mounted by the fogs and they don't do much without VEIL. Once he added VEIL he is getting almost JTG. However, I would not even mess around with VEIL on your vehicle, IMO for something this expensive it's not worth the risk.

So, if you want laser jammers go with the Laser Interceptor and that is the only thing I feel comfortable recommending for that mounting situation.

So realistically, I would pick up a V1, 9500ix (blue display), or the bel gx65 (red display). Try those out for 30 days and keep the one you like, return the other. Then finally get your LI installed and you will be good to go! Beautiful Audi, makes me jealous!

edit: on second thought it looks like you could maybe cut one bar at the bottom for the antenna so it can get a clear road and be flush with the grill. That would be a very stealth install, and the performance should be amazing.

Arrrrrgh! Situation normal, Theopld is now totally confused, as per usual. I don't WANT to cut my grille, certainly couldn't watch them do it...and you're right about replacement costs! Got a couple of pinholes in the freakin' top down windscreen (metal frame with screen, basically) and it costs $700 to replace :eek:

So...9500ci for stealth install, small cut for antenna, chuck the ZR4's, go low with the LI's (Laser Position 1) and no cuts?? Tell the truth, after reading this forum that's where my brain ended up in terms of ideal, ain't it great to be rich solutions :deal:

p.s. There are few more pics of the car in my album profile :)

edit: oh, but of course then we have error messages in the 9500ci every time we startup, right?

My personal opinion would be to go with the jammers (LI) in the top grill, not near the itty bitty fog lights. Without a plate, a LEO is going for center of mass or headlight, period. It is my belief that you would get maximun protection from putting them at dj's position.

RADAR antenna, I don't know about. What in the top you get 4.1 miles whereas the bottom you get 4.3 miles?

Well, I didn't know we had unlimited funds. That changes everything. I would do just like you said. 9500ci, chuck the ZR4s(little error message, no big deal) and I think the LIs will fit in the position I wanted to put the ZR4s without cutting anything. I will go out and measure the LIs right now.

Edit: About 5/8" X 3 1/4" It'll be close, maybe not.

I like DJ's suggestions for where to put either the 9500ci shifters or the LI heads. As far as the 9500ci's antenna goes, its K/Ka band antenna is the one which is nearest the side edge of the antenna case. Both the X antenna and the K/Ka antenna measure 1.1 inches wide. Thus Theopold could mount the 9500ci antenna such that the K/Ka antenna is completely unobstructed and without having to cut anything on the grille. It really won't matter if the X band antenna is partially obstructed by the grille unless X band is used in Theopold's area. Yet even then the X band sensitivity won't take a very big hit due to the partial obstruction.

P.S. I forgot to mention that Theopold might want to make my 3D paper 9500ci antenna so that he can check its fit in his car's grille:

New 9500ci/STi-R 3D Paper CAD Model...

Thanks for the additional info, DJ! Sadly, max horizontal grille space between vertical slats is 1 7/8". (Plenty of room for rent down by the itty-bitty fog lights, of course) Is there by any chance some type of dead space, if you will, between the receiver and the transmitter on the LI's?

Thank you to MEM-TEK as well! I'm gonna mock up that pdf document tomorrow (or perhaps I should just ask my man servant to take care of this small task??) and we'll see what's what from an antenna positioning standpoint :cool:

"man servant"...is that another name for a wife? I'm confused! :D

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Originally Posted by MEM-TEK

"man servant"...is that another name for a wife? I'm confused! :D

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Clearly anyone rich enough to afford a car like that can also afford a butler. :D

Oh, a butler! Why didn't Theopold just say so? No confusion there.

Here's where my antenna washttp://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...usb/Old195.jpghttp://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...usb/Old194.jpg
Here's where it is now with better performancehttp://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...b/IMG00029.jpghttp://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...b/IMG00028.jpg

Any LEO shooting LIDAR and getting a reading off of that license plate should receive an award. LOL.

mrcllusb, how has your performance been with it like that? Would you recommend it?

Not following that last pic, mrcllusb...is that R2D2 plugged into your front end?? FYI, i checked MEM-TEK's antenna mock up in the grille this afternoon and without any mutilation I can give the K/KA antenna full visibility with maybe a 30-35% obstruction on the X band and that works for me! Still gotta check the available depth, however. i wanted to measure the depth this afternoon as well but i didn't have a straight ruler, just measuring tape. It's totally tubular in various places behind the grille/in front of the radiator so we'll have to see...

Anybody got a similar drawing for the LI's? Maybe I should go over to the LI boards and post a question there?? I'm thinking (hoping) a partial obstruction between the receiver and transmitter might be a workable scenario, possibly maybe...

BTW, i was driving back to work after the aforementioned measurements this afternoon and appropos of nothing in particular my entire electrical system apparently decided it was time for a short holiday. Kindof a freakish coincidence, ain't it? A short flatbed trip to the dealer later and i am driving a loaner for the next day or two so...........my installation explorations are on hold for a short time but based on the generous advice of the various forum members to date i think i've decided on the 9500ci install with a TBD on the LI units ;) Thanks for all of your help and i'll be happy to post a subsequent update, if anyone's interested :)

Hi Theopold,

Of course we are interested in updates (and photos) on your installation! If your installer has any questions during the installation process, be sure to have him consult with you first before proceeding any further. Most importantly:

-- Be sure that the installer routes all cables in such a manner as to not interfere with regular engine maintenance procedures.
-- The installer should be careful to not let either the radar antenna cables or laser shifter cables pass really close by any ignition wires, the ignition module(s), or the car's horn. If the cables are too close to these items then false alerts can result.
-- Engine compartments get really hot. I highly recommend that the installer place the various cables inside flame retardent split loom tubing. This will protect the cables from excessive temperatures, and will also protect the cables from being overly pinched since the protective tubing instead of the individual cables themselves will take any pressures from cable ties which are used to secure the cables.
-- The installer should use an add-a-fuse which is plugged into at least a 10A terminal in the fuse box to provide power to the 9500ci. The reason for plugging into a 10A or higher rated fuse box terminal is that these terminals have heavier gauge wires which run back to the battery. This helps to assure that any electrical noise in the car's electrical system will not interfere with the proper operation of the 9500ci and eventually the LI.
-- Make sure that the installer, if possible, places the 9500ci's GPS antenna in the shade yet with a good view of the sky, perhaps inside the rear center brake light assembly if that assembly is made of plastic. This will give the GPS antenna a good sky view through the plastic while keeping the GPS antenna in the shade. The idea is to be sure that the GPS antenna is not mounted directly atop the car's dash since a parked car's passenger cabin and the dash get extremely hot during summer months. This heat plus the GPS antenna's direct exposure to ambient sunlight can cause it to malfunction due to overheating.
-- Make sure if possible that the installer can install the 9500ci's display and control modules where you want them located.

Well, that's about all I can think of at the moment. I can't wait to see photos of your 9500ci installation!

:D

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Originally Posted by djrams80

Well, I didn't know we had unlimited funds. That changes everything. I would do just like you said. 9500ci, chuck the ZR4s(little error message, no big deal) and I think the LIs will fit in the position I wanted to put the ZR4s without cutting anything. I will go out and measure the LIs right now.

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If that's the case, yep, I'd do the same - heck, if you don't want the error messages, just tie them together, either in the cabin or in engine-compartment/trunk, anywhere! (or even retain them, and mount them recessed in the grill, and either simply use them as extra laser detection aids, or, alternatively, as a "backup" jammer) - use an LI/9500ci combo, going with dj's initial installation/placement ideas.

:)

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Originally Posted by Theopold

Not following that last pic, mrcllusb...is that R2D2 plugged into your front end?? FYI, i checked MEM-TEK's antenna mock up in the grille this afternoon and without any mutilation I can give the K/KA antenna full visibility with maybe a 30-35% obstruction on the X band and that works for me! Still gotta check the available depth, however. i wanted to measure the depth this afternoon as well but i didn't have a straight ruler, just measuring tape. It's totally tubular in various places behind the grille/in front of the radiator so we'll have to see...

Anybody got a similar drawing for the LI's? Maybe I should go over to the LI boards and post a question there?? I'm thinking (hoping) a partial obstruction between the receiver and transmitter might be a workable scenario, possibly maybe...

BTW, i was driving back to work after the aforementioned measurements this afternoon and appropos of nothing in particular my entire electrical system apparently decided it was time for a short holiday. Kindof a freakish coincidence, ain't it? A short flatbed trip to the dealer later and i am driving a loaner for the next day or two so...........my installation explorations are on hold for a short time but based on the generous advice of the various forum members to date i think i've decided on the 9500ci install with a TBD on the LI units ;) Thanks for all of your help and i'll be happy to post a subsequent update, if anyone's interested :)

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R2D2? You mean the lawnmower in the pic?

Yah, I was makin' a silly joke about the lawnmower...looks like it's got some metal tube feeding into your front end :D

Thanks for the great install info, MEM-TEK!! I plan to print out and review your suggestions with the installer when i drop the car off - just ordered the 9500ci today and I'm scheduling the install for late next week. Gonna take TSi+WRX's most excellent suggestion and install the ZR4's up high behind the grille (with no cuts) for the time being. BTW, Don't want to give away any secrets yet but...just wait till you guys see pics of the stealth install i'm planning for the 9500ci control/display units! Stealth, utility, and style; I promise you it's cooler than cool :dance3:

Meantime, I'm gonna do more research on installation options for the LI's between now and next week. May have to install them on a subsequent visit but we'll see...............

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Originally Posted by Theopold

...Thanks for the great install info, MEM-TEK!! I plan to print out and review your suggestions with the installer when i drop the car off - just ordered the 9500ci today and I'm scheduling the install for late next week. Gonna take TSi+WRX's most excellent suggestion and install the ZR4's up high behind the grille (with no cuts) for the time being. BTW, Don't want to give away any secrets yet but...just wait till you guys see pics of the stealth install i'm planning for the 9500ci control/display units! Stealth, utility, and style; I promise you it's cooler than cool :dance3: ...

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Hi Theopold,

You are most welcome! I am dying to eventually see where and how the installer mounts the control and display units. Your car is so cool looking, and of course the 9500ci installation will surely end up being just as cool. I really like TSi+WRX's suggestion of installing the ZR4 heads up and behind the grille.

I am headed out-of-town tomorrow for a day or so, but when I get back I hope to have some time over the weekend (even though I have lots of work to do) to create a CAD model of the ZR4 front heads (in particular indicating where its sensors and IR emitters are located) and then produce a PDF of the CAD model. If free time this weekend permits, then hopefully I will have a 3D ZR4 front head PDF posted by Monday or Tuesday so that you will exactly know where the ZR4 head receivers are located.

:)

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Originally Posted by FoolishOne

Any LEO shooting LIDAR and getting a reading off of that license plate should receive an award. LOL.

mrcllusb, how has your performance been with it like that? Would you recommend it?

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My performance is great and for the price i couldn't pass it up.I don't have the need for an LI priced laser defense so what my RX75 offers which is the ZR3 system serves me well.I am thinking of just ordering new ZR4 heads since the new programming is in the heads and calling it good because i only do about 5 to 7 over psl on the highway.City i stick to the psl.If i get real antsy then i'll get a 9500CI and sell my RX75.

Hi MEM-TEK,

That would be awesome! As discussed previously, unobstructed ZR4's could very well be a reasonable selection for where I live. Your drawings should finally tell the tale...On which thread will you post them?? And, since I've got a few days regardless, i will continue my research on the LI's. I've been to their boards before but i think i'll try to post a few questions the next time i visit...

Theopold
may I ask where your getting them installed? a couple places where i asked they weren't to comfortable doing it.

Install is being done by a high-end stereo shop ;)

MEM-TEK,

Did you get a chance to create a CAD model of the ZR4 front heads? FYI, my install is scheduled for Thursday :driver:

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Originally Posted by Theopold

MEM-TEK,

Did you get a chance to create a CAD model of the ZR4 front heads? FYI, my install is scheduled for Thursday :driver:

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I am swamped with work, but popping in here and posting while working. Fortunately I will be done with my current project by tomorrow morning! Thus I will have time to whip up the 3D CAD models of the 9500ci's front ZR4 heads tomorrow and have them posted sometime tomorrow (Wednesday) evening. That is cutting it close for your install, but its the best I can do.

:)

Thanks, MEM-TEK! I'm planning on mocking up a sturdier version of the radar unit tomorrow night so if you get the ZR4's done by Wednesday evening that should work out nicely :D How did you build a sturdier copy, by the way? Did you just print on standard paper and then trace on heavier stock??

BTW, I did find a drawing on the LI forum with sensor location/dimensions for the LI units and it seems like they CAN be partially blocked without blocking the actual transmitter and receiver (physically-speaking, at least...). After thinking about it further, however, I began to ponder the impact, if any, of having the units recessed behind the grille (while also being partially blocked, as mentioned above). If recession ended up being a potential performance issue I could position the units closer to the front edge of the grille by carving out a slot, if you will, in the relevant vertical grille piece/pieces without cutting all the way through, thus maintaining stealth as well as the factory original aesthetic...

Anyway, such is my thinking so far...When i get your drawing it will be interesting to see if partial physical blockage is even a possibility with the ZR4's :dontknow:

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Originally Posted by Theopold

Thanks, MEM-TEK! I'm planning on mocking up a sturdier version of the radar unit tomorrow night so if you get the ZR4's done by Wednesday evening that should work out nicely :D How did you build a sturdier copy, by the way? Did you just print on standard paper and then trace on heavier stock??

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Hi Theopold,

Finally this evening I had the time to CAD up the ZR4 front heads and create the PDF. I created a separate thread for it in the escort forum. I printed on regular printer paper and then worked really carefully cutting it out and taping it together.

:)

Hey MEM-TEK,

Thanks so much for the CAD drawings on the ZR4's!! Just did a quick check and in the preferred install location it looks like I'll get full blockage on 1 shifter LED, very slight blockage on a 2nd, and a clear view for the detector. No idea what impact ~17% LED blockage will have but I will discuss with the installer in the morning when I drop the car off. And...Assuming all goes well, I should be able to post some install pics tomorrow night :thumb2:

Good luck on the install. Looking forward to lots of pics , I have an S5 on the "short list" for the next car purchase. ;)

Darn install took 2 days to complete, I've been sick as a dog since Thursday and to top it off my mail-order bride let it be known in no uncertain terms that she was less than pleased with my recent custom-install-inspired-lack-of-attention :(

Anyway...I was hoping to post some pics tonight but I ran outta daylight. Come hell or high water, however, I'll have them up on a separate thread tomorrow!! If you've read through my posts to this point you may have sensed that my main concern was locating the ZR4's but post-install it will be interesting to see what the consensus is on antenna placement. The installer actively considered several locations but in the end the "decision" was really dictated/forced by the Audi's German-engineered (i.e. crowded) front end real estate...

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Originally Posted by Theopold

Darn install took 2 days to complete, I've been sick as a dog since Thursday and to top it off my mail-order bride let it be known in no uncertain terms that she was less than pleased with my recent custom-install-inspired-lack-of-attention :(

Anyway...I was hoping to post some pics tonight but I ran outta daylight. Come hell or high water, however, I'll have them up on a separate thread tomorrow!! If you've read through my posts to this point you may have sensed that my main concern was locating the ZR4's but post-install it will be interesting to see what the consensus is on antenna placement. The installer actively considered several locations but in the end the "decision" was really dictated/forced by the Audi's German-engineered (i.e. crowded) front end real estate...

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I would like to see some pics