Minimum pulse length info (response time / delay / QT)
I thought I'd gather all related information about minimum detectable pulse lengths previously posted on the forum in one post, courtesy of our wonderful Michael B
Note that none of the results directly apply to the M4 platform. I wish Mike would somehow continue to report such measurements for newer detectors too
SML 2005 - Reports 07/27/2005
Originally Posted by Michael B
Radar lab.........
I have tested the following today.
To quantify my tests I performed the following.
Units were tested at the desired frequency and an external electronic trigger was used to control the radar burst.
The burst times were monitored by an O-scope
The unit was tested until it responded 10 out of 10 times.
Whistler POP models
K..............67ms
33.8.........67ms
34.7........150ms
35.5........150ms
Cobra POP models
K.............500ms
33.8.........worked well from 67 to 100ms but then no response from 100 to 500ms. 500+ the unit was 100% response.
34.7........750ms
35.5........500ms
Bel RX65 I do not know the rev # but it was one of the early units L006503
K............did not work below 500ms. 500-700ms was mixed results. 700+ was 100% response
33.8.......60-100 was 100%. 120 to 500 0%. 500-750 was mixed. 750+ was 100%
34.7.......800ms
35.5.......800ms
## After the GOL Radar Shootout - STi needed for testing ## 02/04/2006
You guys want to see delay information?
I've got delay information.
Bel Sti Test
Rev A1 M7
POP was set ON
X was inconsistent sometimes -101, sometimes -110, sometime in between.
K -116 the unit did not report POP K.
33.8 -110 Good from 60ms to 100ms. No response if 200ms to 900ms. Responded mostly above 1 second
34.3 -112 Responded sometimes from 400ms to 800ms. Responded mostly above 900ms.
34.7 -111 Responded sometimes from 300ms to 700ms. Responded mostly above 800ms.
35.5 -110 Responded sometimes from 400ms to 700ms. Responded mostly above 800ms.
Factory reset is POP OFF so I tried that to see if anything was different. (It sure was)
33.8 -110 No response if 60ms to 900ms. Responded mostly above 1 second. Had erratic operation
34.3 -112 Responded mostly above 500ms.
34.7 -111 Responded mostly above 400ms.
35.5 -110 Responded mostly above 500ms.
It would appear that the POP OFF mode will more frequently respond to ½ second triggers and POP ON mode must wait until 800ms to 1 second.
For those of you experiencing falsing issues due to other radar detectors, you may wish to turn POP mode ON!
POP attempts with POP ON. 10 random tries each at intervals of 10 seconds or more
33.8 67ms 90% K Band 67ms 10%
100ms 90% 100ms 20%
200ms 10% 200ms 10%
300ms 0% 300ms 10%
400ms 0% 400ms 30%
500ms 0% 500ms 70%
600ms 0% 600ms 70%
700ms 0% 700ms 100%
800ms 0% 800ms 100%
900ms 0% 900ms 100%
1 sec most of the time see note* 1 sec 100%
NOTE* I had several instances when 33.8 would not work at all even during full CW pulse.
This unit may have some software of hardware issue. I had to reset the unit and it appeared to work again.
Sensitivity and windows for X and K were reasonable over temperature and maintained sensitivity to the edges of X and K band
Laser Performance was good but only valid 100 thru 500 Hz. Good enough for North America I guess.
I seem to recall some Laser guns used overseas around 900Hz. Sorry to all of you guys over seas.
Michael B's Test Results for the Valentine One 3.826 02/07/2006
These are the lab test results for the Valentine One.
Big thanks to Michael B for the testing!
Valentine Research V1 Test 02/07/06
Rev 3.826
Factory Preset is POP ON
X -118 WOW
Ku -111 (default is OFF)
K -121 Responded 100% at time intervals above 100ms
33.8 -112 80% at 67ms, 100% from 100 to 200ms, 20 to 80% from 300ms to 600ms, 100% above 700ms
34.3 -115 0% below 500ms, 50% from 500 to 600ms, 100% above 700ms.
34.7 -115 0% below 300ms, 50% from 300 to 600ms, 100% above 700ms
35.5 -113 0% below 300ms, 50% from 300 to 700ms, 100% above 800ms.
These times were based upon 10 tries at each interval of 100ms from 100ms up thru 1 sec.
POP OFF
K -121 Responded 100% above 200ms.
33.8 -112 Responded 100% above 600ms.
34.3 -115 Responded 100% above 700ms.
34.7 -115 Responded 100% above 400ms.
35.5 -113 Responded 100% above 400ms.
Unit would sometimes alert at bursts less than the above during POP OFF mode but not consistently enough.
POP attempts with POP ON. 10 random tries at intervals of 10 seconds or more
33.8
67ms 80%
100ms 100%
200ms 100%
300ms 70%
400ms 50%
500ms 20%
600ms 80%
700ms 100%
800ms 100%
900ms 100%
1 sec 100%
K Band
67ms 90%
100ms 100%
200ms 100%
300ms 100%
400ms 100%
500ms 100%
600ms 100%
700ms 100%
800ms 100%
900ms 100%
1 sec 100%
Laser Performance was Excellent. The valid range was 30Hz thru 800Hz.
I seem to recall some Laser guns used overseas around 900Hz.
X and K windows are tight at 10.490 to 10.560 and 24.040 to 24.260
Euro mode disables X
Euro mode Ka freq are only valid from 33.7 thru 33.9GHz and 34.2 thru 34.4GHz
Unit PRD Falsing test performed well when tested against major known brands and models at 50 feet.
Sensitivity from the rear horn was as follows
X -117
Ku -110
K -118
33.8 -105
34.3 -108
34.7 -108
35.5 -106
http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...html#post27259 06/30/2005
The answer is a bid different depending on the model and how they implemented the POP.
The Bel models false to certain radar detector models when in POP is ON
The Bel models will ignore some models when POP is ON but it has been known to POP alert to K band door openers.
The Bel units will not respond to triggered radar between 200 and 400ms.
It ignores them, thinking that it may be a radar detector
The Bel units offer a Ka narrow band where it only accepts Ka from the known radar guns. The idea that if it ignores some of the Ka coverage not needed, it will be less susceptible to falsing from other radar detectors. I did not find it to lessen the falsing during my tests. Certainly it may have less susceptibility to certain radar detectors, but it did not seem to make much difference in my 30 minute drive test.
The Cobra models work similar to the Bel in that it will not respond to radar between 200 and 400ms thinking it may be a radar detector.
Cobra is to blame for all of this.
Starting when they sold the 9 band series, Cobra did 2 very bad things.
1) Cobra operated in the VSAT band and caused the FCC to condemn everyone and now we have to be tested by a TCB lab
2) Cobra instituted a Sweep and Park method of operation for detection of radar and detection of radar detectors. They CW at 12.2 GHZ and 11.8 GHz. The 2nd harmonic of 12.2 is 24.4 and therefore at the edge of K band. The 3rd harmonic of the 11.8 is 35.5 and therefore in the Ka band
This method causes CW radar to be interoperated as K and Ka unless you take the time to see if it goes away.
Time is not a luxury when you are trying to determine if POP is used.
Therefore Cobra and Bel and Escort look to see if the CW is 67ms. If so, they indicate POP
If the CW is seen for greater than 67ms they choose to ignore the radar unless it is seen for at least 400ms.
This was they can attempt to avoid falsing to their own crappy Cobra units.
Cobra continues to operate a CW and swept frequency plan with the 10 and 11 band series but it is now at 11.350 GHz to 10.950 GHz with the 3rd harmonic of 11.350 at 34.050 in the Ka band area. When will they stop creating problems for everyone?
It’s like causing a plague and saying you have a cure. No kidding Sherlock! You created the problem to begin with.
PNI is the worst. They operate only 33% of the time in the POP OFF mode. You need to have CW X band for over 1/2 seconds before it will respond. K band also needs to be greater than ½ second to respond. Ka band requires 1 full second to respond otherwise it will ignore it. This is how they minimize falsing to radar detectors. In the POP ON, the unit had many falsed in a 30 minute drive. The unit was tested in my lab and found to only offer Ka band for the guns currently in use. THEY DO NOT OFFER FULL KA BAND!
I developed a circuit and applied for a patent that triple checks the signal in the required time to determine if it was CW vs. a swept source. It works quite well as it reduces the chance of falsing to a swept radar detector quite efficiently. As for the CW from the Cobra product, the circuit reduces the sensitivity to this by 10db for the first 67ms then the sensitivity is restored to full for the remainder of the signal to help reduce falsing to the Cobras.
The Cobra and Bel and Escort have also instituted a range of POP eligible areas in their sweep plan. That is, only 33.8 and K band are eligible for POP.
PNI only offers POP Ka and does not respond to POP K.
The Whistler has taken the lead to allow POP at X, K, and Ka band in the event future radar guns operate with POP type modes.
It will be difficult for Cobra, Escort, and Bel and PNI to accommodate other frequencies without incurring additional falsing issues.
Mike
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Re: Minimum pulse length info (response time / delay / QT)
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